To the victor go the spoils...

Bullypulpit

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2004
5,849
384
48
Columbus, OH
<center><h2><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04conserve.html?pagewanted=print&position=>Some Bush Supporters Say They Anticipate a 'Revolution'</a></h2></center>

<blockquote>By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

ARLINGTON, Va., Nov. 3 - Exulting in their electoral victories, President Bush's conservative supporters immediately turned to staking out mandates for an ambitious agenda of long-cherished goals, including privatizing Social Security, banning same-sex marriage, remaking the Supreme Court and overturning the court's decisions in support of abortion rights.

"Now comes the revolution," Richard Viguerie, the dean of conservative direct mail, told about a dozen fellow movement stalwarts gathered around a television here, tallying up their Senate seats in the earliest hours of the morning. "If you don't implement a conservative agenda now, when do you?"

By midday, however, fights over the spoils had already begun, as conservatives debated the electorate's verdict on the war in Iraq, the Bush administration's spending and the administration's hearty embrace of traditionalist social causes.

Conservative Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, were first in line to stake their claims, citing polls showing that a plurality of Bush supporters named "moral values" as the most important issue and arguing that a drive to ban same-sex marriage boosted turnout in Ohio.

"Make no mistake - conservative Christians and 'values voters' won this election for George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress," Mr. Viguerie wrote in a memorandum sent to other prominent conservatives. "It's crucial that the Republican leadership not forget this - as much as some will try," he said, underlining the final clause.

"Liberals, many in the media and inside the Republican Party are urging the president to 'unite' the country by discarding the allies that earned him another four years," Mr. Viguerie continued. "They're urging him to discard us conservative Catholics and Protestants, people for whom moral values are the most important issue.''</blockquote>

Why is it assumed that a Judeo-Christian/deontological ethical system, rooted in a false celestial/terrestrial distinction, is superior to one rooted in the objective consequences to this life, in this world? There is no basis for such a view...Other than the absolutist chauvinism of those who adhere to such world views.

With values rooted in the very real consequences of our actions upon ourselves and others, the relativism fostered by widely disparate interpretations of "divine will" are discarded for the useless dross that they are. But this presupposes a rational society, a society which Tuesday's election shows us to be light years away from.
 
Bill Bennett wants a culture war.

I worried about this... I was hoping the Prez could somehow get more swing voters and more Democrats to vote for him, instead he just turned out a bunch of religious fundamentalists who want to remake the US into the Christian super state.

Now he can either cut these folks off on most issues (please!) or he'll reward them non-stop, and that would be very bad for America.
 
Sir Evil said:
Bully - I told everyone you would be back! ready to hang with us another 4 years buddy? :D

YEAH BUDDY! Another four years of a cognitively impaired dry-drunk with his finger on the trigger, and on a mission from God!
 
NATO AIR said:
Bill Bennett wants a culture war.

I worried about this... I was hoping the Prez could somehow get more swing voters and more Democrats to vote for him, instead he just turned out a bunch of religious fundamentalists who want to remake the US into the Christian super state.

Now he can either cut these folks off on most issues (please!) or he'll reward them non-stop, and that would be very bad for America.

Nato, don't be paranoid. There are some in the democratic party that want a revolution, there are some in the democratic party are communists, there are SOME leaders in the democratic party that want to succeed. So what? What is important, is what the MASSES want and the MASSES don't want a cultural war. They just want people to be upstanding, moral and honest. So what is wrong with that? You CANNOT let the MINORITY dictate the outcome. So again, DO NOT WORRY and DO NOT be paranoid.
 
I'm not scared of a revolution. The culture revolution is already occurring and isn't too bad. If it goes armed, guess which party the NRA is with?
 
Revolution is the wrong word.

People want a return to a normalcy.

They don't hate homosexuals, but they don't want to celebrate them.
They understand sometimes abortions are necessary, but they don't want it used as birth control and they don't want fully formed babies having their brains sucked out for no good reason.

That's not a revolution. That's where most people have always been and until now it was never an issue. Those simple beliefs came under assault by a radical left wing minority pushing for the extremes and the people responded.

Nothing changed. All we have now is greater clarity.
 
freeandfun1 said:
Nato, don't be paranoid. There are some in the democratic party that want a revolution, there are some in the democratic party are communists, there are SOME leaders in the democratic party that want to succeed. So what? What is important, is what the MASSES want and the MASSES don't want a cultural war. They just want people to be upstanding, moral and honest. So what is wrong with that? You CANNOT let the MINORITY dictate the outcome. So again, DO NOT WORRY and DO NOT be paranoid.

the far leftists who want a left revolution will never ever enter power again. the far right is in power right now (not pres. bush but some of his supporters) and their ideas are quite different from the great majority of americans. i hope pres. bush governs as a conservative who leans centrist, not a conservative who leans further right.
 
NATO AIR said:
the far leftists who want a left revolution will never ever enter power again. the far right is in power right now (not pres. bush but some of his supporters) and their ideas are quite different from the great majority of americans. i hope pres. bush governs as a conservative who leans centrist, not a conservative who leans further right.

Clinton had his lefties too. Just part of governing from the center.
 
freeandfun1 said:
Clinton had his lefties too. Just part of governing from the center.

I agree, his lefties were kept in check a lot of the time though, and when they were let loose they were usually such a disaster they were hidden quickly.

i hope pres. bush does the same with his far right.
 
Zhukov said:
Revolution is the wrong word.
People want a return to a normalcy.
They don't hate homosexuals, but they don't want to celebrate them.
They understand sometimes abortions are necessary, but they don't want it used as birth control and they don't want fully formed babies having their brains sucked out for no good reason.
That's not a revolution. That's where most people have always been and until now it was never an issue. Those simple beliefs came under assault by a radical left wing minority pushing for the extremes and the people responded.
Nothing changed. All we have now is greater clarity.

excelent points: i bleive if they gay crowd accepted civil union as their term for marriage they would get what they want...
 
Bullypulpit said:
With values rooted in the very real consequences of our actions upon ourselves and others, the relativism fostered by widely disparate interpretations of "divine will" are discarded for the useless dross that they are. But this presupposes a rational society, a society which Tuesday's election shows us to be light years away from.

The socialism you love cause economies to shrink, here, in this world. Moral relativism leads to personal irresponsiblity and an inability to care for oneself, here in this world.
 
NATO AIR said:
Bill Bennett wants a culture war.

I worried about this... I was hoping the Prez could somehow get more swing voters and more Democrats to vote for him, instead he just turned out a bunch of religious fundamentalists who want to remake the US into the Christian super state.

Now he can either cut these folks off on most issues (please!) or he'll reward them non-stop, and that would be very bad for America.

It's interesting that some people hold the Conservative Christians (i.e. "fundamentalists") in the same low regard as others hold gays.

In fact there isn't much difference in the way they are perceived and treated....

1. Both are demonized, the Right demonizes the gays, the Left demonizes Conservative Christians
2. Both are ostracized, and for basically the same reasons. Some people are afraid gays will try to recruit them or their kids, others are afraid that Christians will try to convert them or their kids.
3. Both are seen as a threat to America. Some think that gays are out to undermine the moral fabric of America and others think that Christians are out to undermine our freedoms.
4. Both are seen as being a few bricks short of a load. Gays are seen as sexual deviants and Christians are seen as religious nuts who bomb abortion clinics.
5. They distrust each other. Gays think Christians are out to get them and Christians think that gays are out to get them, too. Members of each group think that the worst thing to be is a member of the other group.
6. Both are groups are harrassed. Gays are targetted by people who hate them and are victims of violence. Christians are likewise targetted, but such incidents aren't widely reported by the media.
7. Both believe that they have been the targets of injustice and persecution throughout history. Both believe that they continue to be targets of injustice and persecution even to this day.
8.Both sides have extemists that really are dangerous, violent and a cause for concern. However, most members of both sides really want to be left alone and live their lives in relative peace and quiet.
 
KarlMarx said:
It's interesting that some people hold the Conservative Christians (i.e. "fundamentalists") in the same low regard as others hold gays.

In fact there isn't much difference in the way they are perceived and treated....

1. Both are demonized, the Right demonizes the gays, the Left demonizes Conservative Christians
2. Both are ostracized, and for basically the same reasons. Some people are afraid gays will try to recruit them or their kids, others are afraid that Christians will try to convert them or their kids.
3. Both are seen as a threat to America. Some think that gays are out to undermine the moral fabric of America and others think that Christians are out to undermine our freedoms.
4. Both are seen as being a few bricks short of a load. Gays are seen as sexual deviants and Christians are seen as religious nuts who bomb abortion clinics.
5. They distrust each other. Gays think Christians are out to get them and Christians think that gays are out to get them, too. Members of each group think that the worst thing to be is a member of the other group.
6. Both are groups are harrassed. Gays are targetted by people who hate them and are victims of violence. Christians are likewise targetted, but such incidents aren't widely reported by the media.
7. Both believe that they have been the targets of injustice and persecution throughout history. Both believe that they continue to be targets of injustice and persecution even to this day.
8.Both sides have extemists that really are dangerous, violent and a cause for concern. However, most members of both sides really want to be left alone and live their lives in relative peace and quiet.

you hit the nail on the head save for one thing. gays will never be in power en masse, but the fundamentalists are.
 
NATO AIR said:
you hit the nail on the head save for one thing. gays will never be in power en masse, but the fundamentalists are.
I have to disagree. If that were true, the Supreme Court would have thrown down Roe vs. Wade, prayer would be allowed in schools and so on.
 
KarlMarx said:
I have to disagree. If that were true, the Supreme Court would have thrown down Roe vs. Wade, prayer would be allowed in schools and so on.

give them 4 years, if they get the chance to pick the replacement supreme court judge this country will be vastly changed and not for the better.
 
NATO AIR said:
give them 4 years, if they get the chance to pick the replacement supreme court judge this country will be vastly changed and not for the better.

Bullshit.
 
freeandfun1 said:
Bullshit.

can we say "coat-hanger abortions?"

among many other things that will happen if an archconservative is put on the supreme court, this is the one thing that haunts me the most. it would finalize the deep failure of democratic and republican leaders for decades.

i don't believe in a woman's right, but neither do i believe the government should outlaw it.

my beef and my hope would be that leaders would address many of the side problems that make abortion often appear to be the only choice for some misled, poorly advised, desperate women.

the adoption system in this country is f*****. planned parenthood is a sick joke. the sex education system in this country's a joke.
 
NATO AIR:

I like you. I think you're a smart guy whose heart is in the right place. But, the liberals are past masters at deception (they have to be; the only times they have been poltically successful in this country, they've been able to hide who they essentially are from the American people). I'm afraid that - to a degree - they've been able to sell you a bill of goods, and scare the hell out of you in the bargain.

The fundamental, bedrock principle of Christianity is man's free will. That we ALONE, among all creatures, may choose whether or not to rise above our hedonistic, self-destructive nature, is the entire point of the exercise. A Christian theocracy, then - by it's very definition - could not exist; it is a contradiction in terms. One who loves God because he has been forced to love God does not really love God - you know?

The closest that man has been able to come to freedom on earth is the American system of government. Within certain parameters of decent, civilized behavior, America was designed to allow man to live pretty much according to his own choices, unfettered by some all-powerful, all-knowing centralized government ruling from on high. "The government which governs best, governs least" is not an empty phrase. It means that people are free to decide their own affairs within their own communities, unfettered by the Federal Government - which - by CONSTITUTIONAL DESIGN - has it's own, very specific, very limited scope of authority.

Think about it a minute. Who is trying to circumvent the will of the people? Who is engaging in an endless campaign of lies and distortion? Who is truly dangerous to your precious, uniquely American freedoms? Christians? They respect your free will - they abide peacefully by the wishes of the community, according to the design of this nation. It is not Christians who pervert the separation of powers in order to gangster their worldview onto a horrified populace. It is not Christians who employ so many attorneys that they actually constitute the largest law firm in the U.S. (that would be the Democrat Party). It is not Christians who attempt to censor or shout down anyone who dares to disagree with them.

Never lose your passion; it is a good thing. But, when something is presented to you as an absolute (Christians want to take over the country; The far right wants a return to back-alley abortions), look at it carefully; ponder it's source.
 

Forum List

Back
Top