To the Moon!!.. not just yet!!

[Mr.Fitnah]

[

Going to space to create jobs and a sense of global community ? Increase the sphere of human avtivity ? Seems like a smoke screen and a huge PR stunt to me. How many resources that could be used on Earth MAY be simply wasted in an attempt to chase rainbows and keep scientists happy ?

Yeah much better to sit around here and fight over the resources we have left like snarling dogs .

 

[Samson]

Let's look at this a moment, as the budget deficit gets larger and larger and if the Ares I is cancelled after spending 3.1 Billion dollars and while the launch facilites are being constructed with tax payer funds as we speak, we would have gotten, exactly NOTHING for our tax dollars.

Further by this cancellation, we as a nation will have finally raised the flag of surrender to other nations when it comes to space exploration. One other thing of note here, is that in a time when many are in need of jobs and especially American jobs, to cancell a program that over it's life will employ tens of thousands of Americans does little to improve that situation and to further recommend outsourcing our nations space needs to other nations does little if anything to help this nation in the long term.

Perhaps, one day Russia or China when they are next to land on the moon will be kind enough to give us a discount to ride on one of their rockets.

I must say this is possibly the best example of Beaurocratic Logic I've seen posted on any Message Board.

We spent $X.

We must spend $X + $Y, or $X will be WASTED!!!! OTHER NATIONS MAY PREVAIL!!!

NASA, DoD, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Transportation, Dept. of Education, ETC., etc., etc., all have their "VITAL" programs without which the American People would "no doubt suffer terribly."

Hey guess what? I think MY JOB is important, and I wanna keep MY MONEY. Frankly, I wish NASA, DoE, Etc., would take their money grubbing hands out of my pocket, and stop whinging away about not having enough of MY $Billion$ so they can keep THEIR goddamn jobs.

 

[dilloduck]

[

Going to space to create jobs and a sense of global community ? Increase the sphere of human avtivity ? Seems like a smoke screen and a huge PR stunt to me. How many resources that could be used on Earth MAY be simply wasted in an attempt to chase rainbows and keep scientists happy ?

Yeah much better to sit around here and fight over the resources we have left like snarling dogs .

well hell----shooting em all into space doesn't seem like a real great alternative. If we are succesfull in a moon colony, who gets to live there ?

 

[asaratis]

russia doesnt have the cash for a moon landing...china perhaps but do they have the interest in one?
it would not be a first...etc....

i would prefer monies and jobs be developed by doing what is here on earth....someone did a thread about the intrastructures getting ready to fail..that is so true....

and perhaps we should explore the oceans...the last unexplored frontiers of earth

NASA creates a lot of private sector jobs.

russia doesnt have the cash for a moon landing...china perhaps but do they have the interest in one?
it would not be a first...etc....

i would prefer monies and jobs be developed by doing what is here on earth....someone did a thread about the intrastructures getting ready to fail..that is so true....

and perhaps we should explore the oceans...the last unexplored frontiers of earth

Agreed----I have yet to be convinced of the moon being anything but a fun scientific experiment. Let private industry play with it.

Private industry already profits from NASA related work. Would you take that away?

The Moon is an archaeological and mineralogical treasure trove. Private industry should explore it thoroughly

Shipping is rather costly. What are the minerals worth?

How will mining the moon affect its mass?

Let's look at this a moment, as the budget deficit gets larger and larger and if the Ares I is cancelled after spending 3.1 Billion dollars and while the launch facilites are being constructed with tax payer funds as we speak, we would have gotten, exactly NOTHING for our tax dollars.

Further by this cancellation, we as a nation will have finally raised the flag of surrender to other nations when it comes to space exploration. One other thing of note here, is that in a time when many are in need of jobs and especially American jobs, to cancell a program that over it's life will employ tens of thousands of Americans does little to improve that situation and to further recommend outsourcing our nations space needs to other nations does little if anything to help this nation in the long term.

Perhaps, one day Russia or China when they are next to land on the moon will be kind enough to give us a discount to ride on one of their rockets.

I must say this is possibly the best example of Beaurocratic Logic I've seen posted on any Message Board.

We spent $X.

We must spend $X + $Y, or $X will be WASTED!!!! OTHER NATIONS MAY PREVAIL!!!

NASA, DoD, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Transportation, Dept. of Education, ETC., etc., etc., all have their "VITAL" programs without which the American People would "no doubt suffer terribly."

Hey guess what? I think MY JOB is important, and I wanna keep MY MONEY. Frankly, I wish NASA, DoE, Etc., would take their money grubbing hands out of my pocket, and stop whinging away about not having enough of MY $Billion$ so they can keep THEIR goddamn jobs.

Not just their jobs.

[

Going to space to create jobs and a sense of global community ? Increase the sphere of human avtivity ? Seems like a smoke screen and a huge PR stunt to me. How many resources that could be used on Earth MAY be simply wasted in an attempt to chase rainbows and keep scientists happy ?

Yeah much better to sit around here and fight over the resources we have left like snarling dogs .

well hell----shooting em all into space doesn't seem like a real great alternative. If we are succesfull in a moon colony, who gets to live there ?

People that want to help build and operate the stop-over and refueling station for the people going on the Mars...and Mars should be a penal colony. We'll turn our existing prisons into schools and homeless shelters.

 

[Navy1960]

Let's look at this a moment, as the budget deficit gets larger and larger and if the Ares I is cancelled after spending 3.1 Billion dollars and while the launch facilites are being constructed with tax payer funds as we speak, we would have gotten, exactly NOTHING for our tax dollars.

Further by this cancellation, we as a nation will have finally raised the flag of surrender to other nations when it comes to space exploration. One other thing of note here, is that in a time when many are in need of jobs and especially American jobs, to cancell a program that over it's life will employ tens of thousands of Americans does little to improve that situation and to further recommend outsourcing our nations space needs to other nations does little if anything to help this nation in the long term.

Perhaps, one day Russia or China when they are next to land on the moon will be kind enough to give us a discount to ride on one of their rockets.

I must say this is possibly the best example of Beaurocratic Logic I've seen posted on any Message Board.

We spent $X.

We must spend $X + $Y, or $X will be WASTED!!!! OTHER NATIONS MAY PREVAIL!!!

NASA, DoD, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Transportation, Dept. of Education, ETC., etc., etc., all have their "VITAL" programs without which the American People would "no doubt suffer terribly."

Hey guess what? I think MY JOB is important, and I wanna keep MY MONEY. Frankly, I wish NASA, DoE, Etc., would take their money grubbing hands out of my pocket, and stop whinging away about not having enough of MY $Billion$ so they can keep THEIR goddamn jobs.

No Samson it's a simple matter of of how much money this nation actually wants to spend on space. If those that advocate the spending nothing on space then it's a simple matter of having to rely on other nations to provide your space capabilities for you. What would you call spending 3.1 Billion dollars with nothing to show for it? Do you call that a good investment? If those advocating these Depts. keep thier hands out of thier pockets then by that logic is investing 2.5 Trillion on a healthcare bill that won't reform healthcare a good return on your money? In fact, this nation would be in a very bad position should it every have to depend on other nations to provide for it's space needs as this has a direct impact on just about all aspects of life in this nation, including defense. The return on the investment that this nation gets from exploring space far exceeds the costs and always has, and it amazes me that as I spoke of earlier that people would advocate cutting one of the very few Govt. departments that actually has shown a massive return on it's investment. In fact commercial aviation owe's a lot to research done by NASA so it does benefit you and I. The logic I used, is not Beaurocratic Logic but it's a practical one that impacts all segments many segments of our sociecty.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

[

Going to space to create jobs and a sense of global community ? Increase the sphere of human avtivity ? Seems like a smoke screen and a huge PR stunt to me. How many resources that could be used on Earth MAY be simply wasted in an attempt to chase rainbows and keep scientists happy ?

Yeah much better to sit around here and fight over the resources we have left like snarling dogs .

well hell----shooting em all into space doesn't seem like a real great alternative. If we are succesfull in a moon colony, who gets to live there ?

Those willing to work, no slackers need apply.
Those who understand .
TNSTAAFL

 

[dilloduck]

Let's look at this a moment, as the budget deficit gets larger and larger and if the Ares I is cancelled after spending 3.1 Billion dollars and while the launch facilites are being constructed with tax payer funds as we speak, we would have gotten, exactly NOTHING for our tax dollars.

Further by this cancellation, we as a nation will have finally raised the flag of surrender to other nations when it comes to space exploration. One other thing of note here, is that in a time when many are in need of jobs and especially American jobs, to cancell a program that over it's life will employ tens of thousands of Americans does little to improve that situation and to further recommend outsourcing our nations space needs to other nations does little if anything to help this nation in the long term.

Perhaps, one day Russia or China when they are next to land on the moon will be kind enough to give us a discount to ride on one of their rockets.

I must say this is possibly the best example of Beaurocratic Logic I've seen posted on any Message Board.

We spent $X.

We must spend $X + $Y, or $X will be WASTED!!!! OTHER NATIONS MAY PREVAIL!!!

NASA, DoD, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Transportation, Dept. of Education, ETC., etc., etc., all have their "VITAL" programs without which the American People would "no doubt suffer terribly."

Hey guess what? I think MY JOB is important, and I wanna keep MY MONEY. Frankly, I wish NASA, DoE, Etc., would take their money grubbing hands out of my pocket, and stop whinging away about not having enough of MY $Billion$ so they can keep THEIR goddamn jobs.

No Samson it's a simple matter of of how much money this nation actually wants to spend on space. If those that advocate the spending nothing on space then it's a simple matter of having to rely on other nations to provide your space capabilities for you. What would you call spending 3.1 Billion dollars with nothing to show for it? Do you call that a good investment? If those advocating these Depts. keep thier hands out of thier pockets then by that logic is investing 2.5 Trillion on a healthcare bill that won't reform healthcare a good return on your money? In fact, this nation would be in a very bad position should it every have to depend on other nations to provide for it's space needs as this has a direct impact on just about all aspects of life in this nation, including defense. The return on the investment that this nation gets from exploring space far exceeds the costs and always has, and it amazes me that as I spoke of earlier that people would advocate cutting one of the very few Govt. departments that actually has shown a massive return on it's investment. In fact commercial aviation owe's a lot to research done by NASA so it does benefit you and I. The logic I used, is not Beaurocratic Logic but it's a practical one that impacts all segments many segments of our sociecty.

I don't care if an Asian provides for my "space needs". Everything is global now right? I'd be tickled pink in Australia creates the first moon colony and brings moon roos along withthem,

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah much better to sit around here and fight over the resources we have left like snarling dogs .

well hell----shooting em all into space doesn't seem like a real great alternative. If we are succesfull in a moon colony, who gets to live there ?

Those willing to work, no slackers need apply.
Those who understand .
TNSTAAFL

Those working in mines for the necessary metals to get to the moon will live there ?
Tell me you don't' really believe that.

 

[Samson]

The return on the investment that this nation gets from exploring space far exceeds the costs and always has, and it amazes me that as I spoke of earlier that people would advocate cutting one of the very few Govt. departments that actually has shown a massive return on it's investment. In fact commercial aviation owe's a lot to research done by NASA so it does benefit you and I. The logic I used, is not Beaurocratic Logic but it's a practical one that impacts all segments many segments of our sociecty.

If NASA's Return on Investment is so great, then privatize it: I'll buy stock.

Until then, its just another of thousands of Federal made-work plans which considers itself impacting "many (or all) segments of our society," for which I must pay, and which gets larger every year as Beaurocrats sit around Washington wondering how they can spend $X this year to justify spending $X+$Y= $Z next year.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

well hell----shooting em all into space doesn't seem like a real great alternative. If we are succesfull in a moon colony, who gets to live there ?

Those willing to work, no slackers need apply.
Those who understand .
TNSTAAFL

Those working in mines for the necessary metals to get to the moon will live there ?
Tell me you don't' really believe that.

Mines on the moon already suggests miners living on the moon .
There is smelting , fabrications and other possibilities.
Man either creates new horizons to reach for or dies here on earth
That the moon is a logical platform for further space exploration is a matter of physics.

 

[rightwinger]

I would like to see NASA concentrate on unmanned probes. That is the future of space exploration. The cost to send a live being safely drives the cost prohibitively. Even the military is going to more unmanned platforms. NASA could lead the technology

 

[dilloduck]

Those willing to work, no slackers need apply.
Those who understand .
TNSTAAFL

Those working in mines for the necessary metals to get to the moon will live there ?
Tell me you don't' really believe that.

Mines on the moon already suggests miners living on the moon .
There is smelting , fabrications and other possibilities.
Man either creates new horizons to reach for or dies here on earth
That the moon is a logical platform for further space exploration is a matter of physics.

Dies here on Earth

oh the pain-----Is it better to die on some other planet ?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I see you have an objection to space exploration.
Science suggests that our current coarse of creating orbiting space junk will lock man onto earth making making exploration and retrieval of resources imposable in the future .

We are taking about human extinction, if you dont spread out you get stuck on earth
fighting over dwindling resources ,creating viruses, while waiting for an asteroid or some kook to start a nuclear war.

I have always been a "hope for the best plan for the worst" kind of guy.

I dont believe in UFOs coming to rescue us from ourselves .

If we are going to continue as a species we really need to be proactive about it.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Movie Name: Idiocracy (2006)
Quote:
Narrator: The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening
rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct
this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources
where focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections.

 

[dilloduck]

I see you have an objection to space exploration.
Science suggests that our current coarse of creating orbiting space junk will lock man onto earth making making exploration and retrieval of resources imposable in the future .

We are taking about human extinction, if you dont spread out you get stuck on earth
fighting over dwindling resources ,creating viruses, while waiting for an asteroid or some kook to start a nuclear war.

I have always been a "hope for the best plan for the worst" kind of guy.

I dont believe in UFOs coming to rescue us from ourselves .

If we are going to continue as a species we really need to be proactive about it.

Can we do it on a somewhat realistic scale-----like maybe Earth is it and we better take care of it ? and I highly doubt the universe will stop when the human race does.
The "let's all move to mars" plan is a bit far out don't you think or are you invested in getting an Adam and Eve thing going there ?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No the universe will not end if mankind should perish.
Im a little old to be going to the moon or mars .That doesn't me I dont thing about the future.
It is fairly clear what we are going to do here on earth .

Putting supplies and automated machines on the moon seems like a realistic scale
We have predator drones why cant we have robotic diggers preparing the moon for colonization?

 

[dilloduck]

No the universe will not end if mankind should perish.
Im a little old to be going to the moon or mars .That doesn't me I dont thing about the future.
It is fairly clear what we are going to do here on earth .

Putting supplies and automated machines on the moon seems like a realistic scale
We have predator drones why cant we have robotic diggers preparing the moon for colonization?

and haul everything that humans need to survive there ? What if we use that same energy on making the Earth habitable for a longer period of time ? The shipping charges will be a hell of a lot cheaper. Is science running out of stuff to do or is it just too boring ? The space pics are awesome to look at it. Just really pricey.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sure we can clean everything up real pretty,
but it does not ensure the survive of mankind should the inevitable happen.

Bruce willas and Ben Aflack are not going to be able to launch a last ditch effort to save the world
we have the resources on earth to put supplies on the moon.

Robotic devices can do a lot of grunt work to see what is there,
so we dont have to all of fly it up there.
There is water there,robots can be used to create domes and caves that are sealed and atmosphere created using algae.

If you think it is impossible to put robotic machines on the moon to excavate and seal of preexisting caves with air locks for future explorers ,we have a different vision of what mankind id capable of.

If you think it is impossible to put algae farms on the moon to produce a breathable atmosphere in sealed caves, we have a different vision of what mankind id capable of.

 

[Navy1960]

On Monday 7th December Virgin Galactic unveiled SpaceShipTwo to the world at Mojave Spaceport, California. 800 press, future astronauts and VIP guests gathered in the desert for a press conference and to view the roll out of the world’s first commercial spaceline.

Sir Richard Branson and Burt Rutan led the press conference, special recognition went to the team at Scaled Composites whose hard work and dedication have made this happen. Governors Bill Richardson and Arnold Schwarzenegger both contributed at the press conference, celebrating this huge milestone and also joining Holly, Richard’s daughter in naming the spaceship, VSS Enterprise.

Despite gale force winds and stormy weather, guests gathered on the runway after the press conference to see SpaceShipTwo for the first time. The spaceship was carried down the runway by her mothership, VMS Eve, to a spectacular display of lights, music and snow which only helped increase the anticipation of her arrival and excitement and awe as she appeared before the crowds.
News – SpaceShipTwo Roll Out | Virgin Galactic


Now I'm not saying I would be against private space ventures, in fact what Virgin is doing with this project and others is a wonderful step. Given an atmosphere in which to thrive commercial space operations as well as public space operations would spell a bright future for this nation, however commercial space is an expensive venture and does not have the money to take up the slack needed to take over an operation the size of NASA if that is what people here are advocating.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I would like to see NASA concentrate on unmanned probes. That is the future of space exploration. The cost to send a live being safely drives the cost prohibitively. Even the military is going to more unmanned platforms. NASA could lead the technology

but then there would be no Capt Kirk born in the future......