To the Conservatives.

#4. His Birth Certificate has been examined by every authority that matters and has been shown to be valid.



From another Board...


On Oct. 31, after being inundated by requests for more details about Obamas birth records, Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she and registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, had personally verified that the Health Department possesses Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obamas original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

The cryptic and carefully-worded statement offered no true details of the birth certificate, and leads to more questions than answers among critics. In July, when Barack Obamas Certification of Live Birth was first distributed publically on the internet, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo simply asserted to the St. Petersburg Times, its a valid Hawaii state birth certificate.

Although officials are on record that there is an original birth certificate held by the state, and that it is correctly filed according to Hawaii state directives. However, the specifics of the type of birth certificate records on file, with modifications, as well as the details and accounts of witnesses, is still unknown at this time.

Credibility of the "Certification of Live Birth"

The computer-generated Certification of Live Birth was first used in November 2001 to allow the State of Hawaii to pull up birth records quicker for people requesting a birth certificate in person. At the very bottom of the form are the words, This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]."

However, despite this written notice on the form, some Hawaii state agencies do not accept the Certification of Live Birth as irrefutable verification of Hawaiian birth. There have been numerous cases when the Hawaii Family Court System required more detailed data for paternity suits. Additionally, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands provides the following guidelines to Hawaiian natives applying for Hawaiian Home Lands homestead:

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:
- A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
- A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
- A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL. (emphasis added)

Additionally, the Certification of Live Birth is not recognized by many Federal agencies. DoD 5220.22-M, the "National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual," provides baseline standards for the protection of classified information released or disclosed to industry. Unified Facilities Guide Specifications, section 1.5.22.2 allows for a total of 18 different means to verify US citizenship, ranging from a military ID card to even a Hawaii certificate of foreign birth. The Certification of Live Birth is not on the list of approved documents acceptable for proof of Citizenship.
 
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Ahh Democracy.

As Benjamin Franklin once wrote, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."

Or Thomas Jefferson once wrote, "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

In other words, the majority always rule over the miniority.

Some other interesting quotes:

"Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve." - George Bernard Shaw

"Democracy is only a dream: it should be put in the same category as Arcadia, Santa Claus, and Heaven." - H.L Mencken

"Democracy encourages the majority to decide things about which the majority is ignorant." - John Simon

"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame." - Laurence J Peter.

"Democracy, as has been said of Christianity, has never really been tried."- Stuart Chase
Good thing we aren't a Democracy then, isn't it!!!!

I guess our Founding Fathers made us a Constitutional Republic for a reason.
 
Good thing we aren't a Democracy then, isn't it!!!!

I guess our Founding Fathers made us a Constitutional Republic for a reason.

Absolutely, now if only our government would actually follow the Constitution.
 
Same question -- you base this on what?

Well he voted for the FISA Amendments which would seem to suggest that as President he intends to continue Bush's policy of spying on Americans, for one. Another example would be his voting for bailing out failed businesses, which the Constitution does not give the federal government the authority to do in the first place. To add to that, the bailouts were voted on by the Senate before they were approved by the House despite the Constitution saying that all money appropriations must first pass the House. Whether he agreed with the bailouts or not, he should have voted them down based on that fact alone.

My guess would be that, as President, he intends to circumvent the Constitution as he sees fit, just as he has done as a Senator.
 
First, you need to differentiate between legal and illegal wiretaps. Conducted properly, the taps are Constitutional and legal.

Second, the general welfare clause of the Constitution gives Congress the power to do almost anything it damn well pleases, to include bailing out banks.

Third, the bailout plan and the bailout appropriation are two different things.

Obama studied law at Harvard. He knows the Constitution pretty good.

Well he voted for the FISA Amendments which would seem to suggest that as President he intends to continue Bush's policy of spying on Americans, for one. Another example would be his voting for bailing out failed businesses, which the Constitution does not give the federal government the authority to do in the first place. To add to that, the bailouts were voted on by the Senate before they were approved by the House despite the Constitution saying that all money appropriations must first pass the House. Whether he agreed with the bailouts or not, he should have voted them down based on that fact alone.

My guess would be that, as President, he intends to circumvent the Constitution as he sees fit, just as he has done as a Senator.
 
First, you need to differentiate between legal and illegal wiretaps. Conducted properly, the taps are Constitutional and legal.

Second, the general welfare clause of the Constitution gives Congress the power to do almost anything it damn well pleases, to include bailing out banks.

Third, the bailout plan and the bailout appropriation are two different things.

Obama studied law at Harvard. He knows the Constitution pretty good.
actually, it doesnt
 
First, you need to differentiate between legal and illegal wiretaps. Conducted properly, the taps are Constitutional and legal.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

Doesn't sound Constitutional to me. You'll have to find where the Constitution gives the authority to spy on the American people because I certainly can't.

Second, the general welfare clause of the Constitution gives Congress the power to do almost anything it damn well pleases, to include bailing out banks.

Well if that is what the general welfare clause was actually intended to do then I submit that there was absolutely no point in creating a Constitution for our country in the first place, because government could then do whatever it wanted. So I doubt that was the intention of the founders who were, for the most part, distrustful of an all-powerful government.

Third, the bailout plan and the bailout appropriation are two different things.

I am speaking about the original vote as to whether is was necessary to make $700 billion available for banks. It was unconstitutional for the Senate to vote on it before the House had approved it, and everyone knew that. It is evident that they knew this because they had to attach the bailout plan to another piece of legislation to hide what they were doing.

Obama studied law at Harvard. He knows the Constitution pretty good.

I'm sure he does, and I haven't said that he doesn't know it very well. I have said that he has ignored it in the past, and given proof, and that he will probably ignore it in the future.
 

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