To start with bushes tax cuts created 7 million jobs in 5 years, in addition

[8537]

The FICA rate reduction is on the employee side only. So please, educate us on the HR departments who are that clueless.

Right, so every American who pays FICA tax saw a tax cut, and that tax cut is processed in...

Get it now.....

The HR department of their employer!

Check the wording again.

An extra $17 bucks a week for those who are employed is not going to create jobs an it also was not part of the stimulus.

The FICA cut was part of the stimulus bill.

$17 / week is $884 more income per year. if you don't think putting an extra $884 in every person's pocket is going to create jobs, you'd make a lousy Republican.

 

[asterism]

Why are you quoting a bunch of fed-monitored and fed-controlled rates?

Because you're saying the President had some control so I looked at the data on which rates he could actually (even if indirectly) control.

The president has no control over the prime, fed funds or discount rate. He has some control over the size of the budget deficit, which in turn impacts interest rates.

True, and you said that Clinton's tax increases lowered interest rates. But you never stated which interest rates were lowered despite me showing that 3 separate interest rates rose.

Which ones?

Any bonds sold by the government.

So the tax increases lowered interest rates by the government borrowing more? Is that your position or am I mistaken?

It looks like that ball is still in your court. You said President Clinton lowered interest rates. You have yet to substantiate that and you scoffed at the interest rates I presented. Of course since those interest rates increased and they are actually controlled by a quasi-government entity I assumed you were talking about them.

Are you saying Clinton controlled other interest rates?

I'm saying that decreasing deficits leads to lower interest rates. Of course, in the midst of an expansion the decreasing pressure on rates is going to be offset by concerns about inflation (and obviously not concerns about employment)

Ah. So you're saying higher tax rates decreased the deficit which in turn lowered the rate the government had to pay to borrow money. This is your position?

The fact that lower deficit spending puts downward pressure on interest rates is just a simple axiom of supply and demand.

I suppose that depends on which interest rates you're talking about. You seem to know about economics so please indulge me because you haven't quite kept up:

How does the government borrowing more money at lower interest rates as a result of higher tax rates create jobs?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Most of the current deficit is a combination of the Bush era tax cuts and the cost of the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

....Not to mention....​

July 31, 2003

"Bush Spends More than 'Liberal' Presidents"

CATO!!!

 

[asterism]

Right, so every American who pays FICA tax saw a tax cut, and that tax cut is processed in...

Get it now.....

The HR department of their employer!

Check the wording again.

An extra $17 bucks a week for those who are employed is not going to create jobs an it also was not part of the stimulus.

The FICA cut was part of the stimulus bill.

Show me the text because either I am mistaken or it was part of the 2010 extension of current federal income tax rates.

$17 / week is $884 more income per year. if you don't think putting an extra $884 in every person's pocket is going to create jobs, you'd make a lousy Republican.

I'm sure I would make a lousy Republican because they have no clue either. I do know that the results of an extra 9 tenths of one percent increase in the economy spending isn't going to come close to the amount the taxpayers will have to kick in extra to cover the same entitlement schedule. That's the problem here, entitlement spending.

 

[8537]

Because you're saying the President had some control so I looked at the data on which rates he could actually (even if indirectly) control.

The president has no control over the prime, fed funds or discount rate. He has some control over the size of the budget deficit, which in turn impacts interest rates.

True, and you said that Clinton's tax increases lowered interest rates. But you never stated which interest rates were lowered despite me showing that 3 separate interest rates rose.

All interest rates decline when the demand for loanable funds declines.

So the tax increases lowered interest rates by the government borrowing more? Is that your position or am I mistaken?

No, the tax increase lowered interest rates because the government borrowed less - in fact, the government was a net purchaser of bonds during two years during the Clinton administration.

Ah. So you're saying higher tax rates decreased the deficit which in turn lowered the rate the government had to pay to borrow money. This is your position?

No, my position was - and is - that when the government borrows less, interest rates go down because the demand for loanable funds is less.

As a significant borrower, the federal government crowds out other safe assets.

I suppose that depends on which interest rates you're talking about. You seem to know about economics so please indulge me because you haven't quite kept up:

How does the government borrowing more money at lower interest rates as a result of higher tax rates create jobs?

The government didn't borrow more money - it borrowed less, which has the effect of downward pressure on interest rates across the board, from overnight treasuries to high-yield bonds.

Lower interest rates help create jobs.

 

[asterism]

Most of the current deficit is a combination of the Bush era tax cuts and the cost of the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

....Not to mention....​

July 31, 2003

"Bush Spends More than 'Liberal' Presidents"

CATO!!!

Until Obama of course.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What created the 23 million jobs in the Clinton presidency?

Many things in the private sector. On the government side: lower government spending, welfare reform, farm-subsidy reform, free trade agreements.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....so, you're saying it was The Government that created those jobs, huh??

Interesting....

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart.:

Can you prove the Democrats caused the recession?

Can you list actual Democratic legislation that passed in 2007 that caused the recession?

While not the sole cause, the Democrats did raise the minimum wage dramatically. I'm aware that minimum wage increases do not always cause job growth to slow but it certainly didn't help.

Not that it matters much anyway, Obama is following in Bush's footsteps by refusing to criminally prosecute shifty businessmen that hire illegal aliens so maybe it's a wash.

Yeah.....it was illegal aliens that caused the
Wall Street MELTDOWN.

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TOpsLH92MY]YouTube - Economists Blame Phil Gramm For Current Crisis[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-LVfcbOxs]YouTube - Phil Gramm Lobbied For Subprime Lenders during McCain[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What jobs did they create? Mine went to India, I would like it back.

Find something else to do or move to India. I wish I could still code HTML for $45 an hour. I don't blame anyone for innovation that made me have to figure something else out.

I tried to follow my job to India...

....Except your parents STILL won't let you cross-the-street, on your own, yet.

We know....we know.....
​

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's your claim, and so, yes, you do.


I have not made that claim, and so, I have nothing to prove.

Get busy.

So you agree there is no evidence to support the claim that the Bush tax cuts created 7 million jobs?

There's plenty of evidence in the OP. Does it prove direct causation? Hard to tell. One thing is certain though, raising taxes this year was not going to help according to both Republicans and Democrats including the President.

So what's your point?

And can you prove Clinton's tax increases created jobs?

If the evidence doesn't show causation then it's not relevant evidence.

 

[uscitizen]

Prove that the tax cuts created the jobs.
Increased govt spending created quite a few jobs.
The Iraq war created quite a few jobs as well.

It is totally asinine to say that all jobs created under Bush were attributed to his tax cuts.

A valid point.

It seems Obama has create or saved a whole lot of government jobs. What's the net?

Again I say Obama is a third Bush term.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There was no "lower government spending." A massive decrease in the rate of increase happened when the GOP won the House in 1994. There was no economic recovery before then.Liberals forget this, and they claim credit for welfare reform which also helped. And then there's the fact that no Democrat ever predicted that the economy would grow so much starting in 1997. In fact, Bob Dole was laughed at for saying it was possible. When it happened they of course claimed credit.

That is false. The economy was already growing when Clinton took office in fact the economy was out of recession in 1991.

I suppose that depends on your definition of "recovery." Are you saying the recovery started in 1991?

Recovery would be when negative GDP turns to positive GDP, when contraction is replaced by expansion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's your claim, and so, yes, you do.

I have not made that claim, and so, I have nothing to prove.
Get busy.

Ah, turns out you're lying:
Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter
The Obama's tax cuts wil create jobs as well.
But the left will never admit it.

I see you still suffer from that basic lack of understanding of the English language.
-Do- try to fix that.

I know what the phrase 'as well' means. It means 'also'.

You said the Obama tax cuts would also create jobs, and you were referring to the Bush tax cuts creating jobs, so yes you did claim that the Bush tax cuts created 7 million jobs.

Now quit being a lying fat pussy and own up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How?

Why do I need to say how? No one is proving how the Bush tax cuts created jobs.

I'm providing exactly as much substantiation as they are.

Except you are making a claim that you aren't proving. I am not making the claim that the Bush tax cuts create jobs ergo I do not have to prove it.

I am proving that the claim of the OP that the Bush taxcuts created 7 million jobs is unsupported by any evidence and therefore may be dismissed as baseless drivel.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart.:

Can you prove the Democrats caused the recession?

Can you list actual Democratic legislation that passed in 2007 that caused the recession?

While not the sole cause, the Democrats did raise the minimum wage dramatically. I'm aware that minimum wage increases do not always cause job growth to slow but it certainly didn't help.

Not that it matters much anyway, Obama is following in Bush's footsteps by refusing to criminally prosecute shifty businessmen that hire illegal aliens so maybe it's a wash.

Clinton raised the minimum wage I think in his first term. Amid hysterical lamentations from the GOP that it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

That dang Clinton!!! Argument spoiler!!

 

[asterism]

Can you prove the Democrats caused the recession?

Can you list actual Democratic legislation that passed in 2007 that caused the recession?

While not the sole cause, the Democrats did raise the minimum wage dramatically. I'm aware that minimum wage increases do not always cause job growth to slow but it certainly didn't help.

Not that it matters much anyway, Obama is following in Bush's footsteps by refusing to criminally prosecute shifty businessmen that hire illegal aliens so maybe it's a wash.

Yeah.....it was illegal aliens that caused the
Wall Street MELTDOWN.

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TOpsLH92MY]YouTube - Economists Blame Phil Gramm For Current Crisis[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-LVfcbOxs]YouTube - Phil Gramm Lobbied For Subprime Lenders during McCain[/ame]​

Ah.

Glass-Steagal Act.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Many things in the private sector. On the government side: lower government spending, welfare reform, farm-subsidy reform, free trade agreements. The tax increases in 1993 hurt, but were more than offset by other changes.

There was no "lower government spending." A massive decrease in the rate of increase happened when the GOP won the House in 1994. There was no economic recovery before then.Liberals forget this, and they claim credit for welfare reform which also helped. And then there's the fact that no Democrat ever predicted that the economy would grow so much starting in 1997. In fact, Bob Dole was laughed at for saying it was possible. When it happened they of course claimed credit.

That is false. The economic was already growing when Clinton took office in fact the economy was out of recession in 1991.

Yeah....that's what was goin'-on.....

POLL

Election 1992 -- Economy -

How Is Personal Financial Situation​

 

[asterism]

So you agree there is no evidence to support the claim that the Bush tax cuts created 7 million jobs?

There's plenty of evidence in the OP. Does it prove direct causation? Hard to tell. One thing is certain though, raising taxes this year was not going to help according to both Republicans and Democrats including the President.

So what's your point?

And can you prove Clinton's tax increases created jobs?

If the evidence doesn't show causation then it's not relevant evidence.

Oh now that's not true. Causation and contributory evidence are different but both are relevant.

What was your opinion on how to improve the economy in October 2008?

 

[asterism]

Prove that the tax cuts created the jobs.
Increased govt spending created quite a few jobs.
The Iraq war created quite a few jobs as well.

It is totally asinine to say that all jobs created under Bush were attributed to his tax cuts.

A valid point.

It seems Obama has create or saved a whole lot of government jobs. What's the net?

Again I say Obama is a third Bush term.

Fair enough.

 

[asterism]

That is false. The economy was already growing when Clinton took office in fact the economy was out of recession in 1991.

I suppose that depends on your definition of "recovery." Are you saying the recovery started in 1991?

Recovery would be when negative GDP turns to positive GDP, when contraction is replaced by expansion.

So that's 1991.

What was all that liberal hype about "It's the economy stupid!" about then? What was your opinion about it?