To Cut Taxes or NOT....that is the question...

[MIPS]

I guess it was more convenient to you to ignore the post in which I did admit my mistake, right?

I saw it, then I saw that you subsequently tried to spin out of it.......

Hey, I'm a human. We do things like that.

Completely understand that, no harm, no foul.

 

[Toro]

Your historical examples are nonsense.
Tax increases did not contribute to eliminating the deficit under Clinton. The internet bubble and economic growth did that.
Michigan has raised taxes to close the deficit. NJ has raised taxes to close the deficit. California has raised taxes to close the deficit. NY has raised taxes to close the deficit.
In every case the deficit is worse, not better, than it had been.
Under Reagan the deficit would have shrunk to zero had not the Democrat Congress increased spending massively. Ditto under George W Bush.
No, Reagan was right. The only way to increase gov't efficiency is to put it on a diet. And teh way to do that is not by raising taxes.

Reagan's old budget director, David Stockman, disagrees with you. As do most economists.

Feel free to back up your argument with empirical evidence. I've never seen it. Ever.

As I've stated, Bush's former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Greg Mankiw, ran the econometric models and concluded that for every $1 in income taxes cut, the government loses $0.83 in revenues. Good luck balancing the budget with that. If you cut taxes, you have to cut spending.

 

[The Rabbi]

dave Stockman advised George HW Bush to renege on his no new taxes pledge. He has no credibility.
Start here:
CRC Papers on Michigan's Budget Crisis
Note that MI has been closing its budget gap with tax increases for 20 years and the result has been larger budget gaps. You would find the same in NJ.

 

[DiamondDave]

I do not believe that we should 'cut' taxes.... I also not not believe that we should allow existing 'tax cuts' to expire if we stay in the same system...

I would rather see us blow up the existing tax system to a simplified flat tax with equality in mind, with the same % taxed on every dollar earned by every citizen, no exceptions... coupling that with changes to the constitution to require that we spend no more than what we bring in, except in national emergency and that spending must meet a 75+% majority to happen... and having a movement succeed in reducing the size of government as it exists today... THAT is what needs to happen.. unfortunately with the government's hunger for power, we are not likely to see that happen

 

[The Rabbi]

I do not believe that we should 'cut' taxes.... I also not not believe that we should allow existing 'tax cuts' to expire if we stay in the same system...

I would rather see us blow up the existing tax system to a simplified flat tax with equality in mind, with the same % taxed on every dollar earned by every citizen, no exceptions... coupling that with changes to the constitution to require that we spend no more than what we bring in, except in national emergency and that spending must meet a 75+% majority to happen... and having a movement succeed in reducing the size of government as it exists today... THAT is what needs to happen.. unfortunately with the government's hunger for power, we are not likely to see that happen

I'd like to see me banging super models. That ain't gonna happen either.

So we need to start where we can. Across the board targeted tax cuts have worked virtually every time they were tried. The approach of the Obama Administration has been to throw candy to favored constituencies for one or two years. That wont work. It never has. Cut taxes at the margin, do it permanently and give businesses more incentive to produce and hire.

 

[FA_Q2]

Your historical examples are nonsense.
Tax increases did not contribute to eliminating the deficit under Clinton. The internet bubble and economic growth did that.
Michigan has raised taxes to close the deficit. NJ has raised taxes to close the deficit. California has raised taxes to close the deficit. NY has raised taxes to close the deficit.
In every case the deficit is worse, not better, than it had been.
Under Reagan the deficit would have shrunk to zero had not the Democrat Congress increased spending massively. Ditto under George W Bush.
No, Reagan was right. The only way to increase gov't efficiency is to put it on a diet. And teh way to do that is not by raising taxes.

Reagan's old budget director, David Stockman, disagrees with you. As do most economists.

Feel free to back up your argument with empirical evidence. I've never seen it. Ever.

As I've stated, Bush's former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Greg Mankiw, ran the econometric models and concluded that for every $1 in income taxes cut, the government loses $0.83 in revenues. Good luck balancing the budget with that. If you cut taxes, you have to cut spending.

I would agree with the rabbi in that tax increases do not reduce deficits but for another reason. Whenever a politician increases taxes they look at the projected gains in revenue and, like the greedy bastards they are, they immediately spend it all before the money is even made. That would increase deficit as the projected increases are never realistic. I would be happy to accept an increased tax burden if the government were to put those taxes where they say and reduce the deficit. Unfortunately, that will NEVER happen. If taxes go up, idiotic expenditures rise with it.

 

[Avatar4321]

We need to drastically cut spending and taxes so our economy can grow out of this recession. Make it profitable for businesses to run in the United States and you will attract businesses and create more jobs.

There is a reason the 1920s were the roaring twenties. It was precisely because taxes and spending were cut.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

There are huge revenue opportunities the government can make:

Tax all government workers at a higher rate making over 100k a year and return "public service" to the job.

Tax anyone making over 100k at a higher rate if they work for a supposed "non-profit" corporation.

Start treating universities as the gigantic business that they are and remove tax breaks.

Make all citizens pay into Social Security, period.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I thought the Bush tax cuts were the saviour of the economy. Why would we need more tax cuts?

 

[The Rabbi]

I thought the Bush tax cuts were the saviour of the economy. Why would we need more tax cuts?

They were.
Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
Now, before you dismiss it in your usual half-assed way "that partisan site" take a minute to read it. If it is really partisan hackery then it would be easy to point out the fallacies of what they're saying. Bush's tax cuts created many quarters of economic growth. How many quarters of economic growth have Obama's policies created?

 

[xsited1]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

The government needs to cut taxes and government programs during this recessionary era. If a company's revenues go down, they can't raise the prices of their products and hope their revenue goes up. However, what we see is government expanding. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Polk]

Then say that.
Sloppy wording represents sloppy thinking.

No he has not raised income taxes. Yet. But he is not pushing to extend the Bush Tax cuts,which will expire. So that isn't much different.

His wording wasn't sloppy. He was addressing the common right-wing statement that Obama broke his promise on taxes for people making under 250k a year.
Also, yes, Obama is pushing to extend the current tax rates for those making under 250k. Look at the budget.

 

[Polk]

I thought the Bush tax cuts were the saviour of the economy. Why would we need more tax cuts?

They were.
Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
Now, before you dismiss it in your usual half-assed way "that partisan site" take a minute to read it. If it is really partisan hackery then it would be easy to point out the fallacies of what they're saying. Bush's tax cuts created many quarters of economic growth. How many quarters of economic growth have Obama's policies created?

I've seen the arguments before, and they're still wrong. There was a sharp drop in revenue after the passage of the Bush tax cuts. Don't take my word for it, Bush's own Treasury officials said the exact same thing. As for the effect on the deficit, about half of the deficit for current year comes from lost revenue due to the Bush tax cuts. And the argument that the Bush tax cuts weren't tilted toward the rich because the rich are now paying more in taxes? It ignores the fact that this is the case because the share of income going to the wealthiest is now significantly larger than it was before.

Also, want to compare economic policies? Bush's economy policies resulted in a doubling of the unemployment rate.

 

[Polk]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

The government needs to cut taxes and government programs during this recessionary era. If a company's revenues go down, they can't raise the prices of their products and hope their revenue goes up. However, what we see is government expanding. That's just ridiculous.

Cutting spending will only make the economy worse.

 

[The Rabbi]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

The government needs to cut taxes and government programs during this recessionary era. If a company's revenues go down, they can't raise the prices of their products and hope their revenue goes up. However, what we see is government expanding. That's just ridiculous.

Cutting spending will only make the economy worse.

No, increasing spending will make the economy worse. Unless you believe in the fairy tale of gov't multipliers.