To Cut Taxes or NOT....that is the question...

[kyzr]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

 

[PeterS]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

I voted no but would have voted yes if spending were cut first. We should never cut taxes unless there is a correlating cut to spending.

 

[The Rabbi]

Cutting "taxes" is a bad idea.
Cutting the right taxes is a good idea. And one that Team Obama has no idea about.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Too much of the tax code is not about raising revenue, but about sticking it to folks you don't like. If folks actually discussed wanting more money, they would be talking lower taxes.


Obama's tax hike did nothing for revenue. (Which went down substantially this year) It is true that the economy tanked this year, but increased taxes didn't help.

Higher rates on lower activity don't bring in nearly as much as lower rates on more activity.

 

[Polk]

Obama's tax hike did nothing for revenue. (Which went down substantially this year) It is true that the economy tanked this year, but increased taxes didn't help.

Except that taxes didn't go up.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I keep hearing the GOP guys on TV whining about cutting taxes. With the deficit soaring is that really a good idea? Why isn't the battle about "cutting spending"?

Lets do a poll about cutting taxes. Then we can look at cutting spending in the next thread....

How about we cut

$7 Million in Stimulus Funds Spent on a Bridge to No Benefits

(Feb. 4, 2010) $7 million in taxpayer stimulus funds are being used to build a bridge in Thedford, Neb.. The purpose of the bridge? Helping 168 residents avoid a 30 second wait at a local train crossing. But according to Mike Hodges, a local business owner, crossing the bridge won’t even help residents avoid the current 30 second wait time — it will actually take longer to cross the new roundabout bridge. Will the bridge at least create jobs? Not for Thedford. Town Chairman Judy Taylor complained that the bridge contract was awarded to a Colorado company that is using their own workers. In fact, not one full-time job will be created through the construction of this $7 million bridge. CNN closed their segment by saying this about the bridge: “No economic benefit, no full time jobs, and a lot of taxpayer dollars used to cross the road.”




$50,000 in Stimulus Funds for New Tennis Courts

(Jan. 11, 2010) Bozeman, Montana is spending $49,410 to install new rubber-tiled tennis courts at the city’s Bogert Park. The tennis courts are being funded out of the $621,000 Bozeman has received in federal stimulus dollars. Brian Schweitzer, governor of Montana, believes this is a waste of government funds. And while the residents of Bozeman will be able to play tennis on brand new courts come June, they still won’t have any new jobs to show for the project. Game, Set, Match.


$25,000 in Stimulus Funds for Free Concerts

(Dec. 3, 2009) The Sacramento Philharmonic Orchestra is receiving $25,000 in federal stimulus funds to provide five free concerts in the Sacramento area. The concerts will run from Dec. 3-7 and will include such programs as Bohuslav Martinu’s “Kitchen Revue,” where audiences can imagine the “life of a pot, a lid, a broom and a dishrag.”
While free community concerts are certainly admirable, it’s unclear how they produce jobs during a recession. According to Marc Feldman, executive director of the Sacramento Philharmonic, this money will give 10 of his musicians (whose jobs do not appear to be in any danger), “a good long week of work.”


$4 Million in Stimulus Funds to Build Bike Trail to Taco Bell

(Oct. 23, 2009) -The Federal Highway Administration (FHA) spent $4 Million in stimulus funds to build a bike trail to Taco Bell. Apparently, the FHA felt it was necessary to allocate $4 million in federal stimulus dollars to build a 2.66 mile bike trail in Massachusetts. The planned corridor will provide a new path connecting the Manhan Bike Trail to the Northampton and Norwottuck Trails. Once the new trail is completed, the Manhan bikers will finally have access to the Taco Bell in Northampton.




$ 2 Million of Stimulus Funds Spent on Center for Dance

(Sept. 17, 2009) – The Minneapolis City Council recently voted to use federal stimulus funds to convert a vacant 99-year-old theater into a center of dance instead of funding a solar-energy-panel manufacturing plant that would have created 7 times as many jobs. The center of dance project will cost 2 million stimulus dollars and only create 48 permanent jobs according to the City. Interestingly, in the Spring Newsletter, the theatre estimated that completing the project would actually only create 26 full and part-time permanent jobs. At only 26 jobs, each permanent jobwould cost $76,923 to create.
The solar-energy-panel manufacturing plant that was in competition for the stimulus funds received less than 300 thousand dollars, compared to the dance center’s 2 million. Yet, the plant would have created more than 360 jobs by 2011. Because of the insufficient funds the Council appropriated to the plant, their chief executive officer indicated the plant could not be opened in Minneapolis.




et al.


Source: Stop the Pork!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

Did you look at the post directly above you?


No?


Why?


Because you're a retarded partisan hack?


Well, that explains it.

 

[Toro]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

When the recession is over, we will have to cut spending and raise taxes. It IS inevitable. Delaying hard choices will just make things worse.

 

[elvis]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

When the recession is over, we will have to cut spending and raise taxes. It IS inevitable. Delaying hard choices will just make things worse.

the raising of taxes will happen after 2012, I imagine.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

Did you look at the post directly above you?


No?


Why?


Because you're a retarded partisan hack?


Well, that explains it.

Are you the idiot who posted the poll

What?

No.

So shut the fuck up.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

Did you look at the post directly above you?


No?


Why?


Because you're a retarded partisan hack?


Well, that explains it.

Are you the idiot who posted the poll

What?

No.

So shut the fuck up.

Skull: I'm a fucking retard

Pro: Yes, yes you are.

Skull: Shutup!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Elvis neg repped me for suggesting we cut spending and get rid of pork in post #6.

 

[elvis]

Elvis neg repped me for suggesting we cut spending and get rid of pork in post #6.

Incorrect, as usual.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

K: Should we cut taxes

Pro: More than anything we need to cut spending- here are some examples

Elvis: COMMIE COMMIE PINHEAD COMMIE GET OFF MY PHONE!!

 

[elvis]

K: Should we cut taxes

Pro: More than anything we need to cut spending- here are some examples

Elvis: COMMIE COMMIE PINHEAD COMMIE GET OFF MY PHONE!!

amazing you can get all that from "Hello comrade".

 

[The Rabbi]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

When the recession is over, we will have to cut spending and raise taxes. It IS inevitable. Delaying hard choices will just make things worse.

There is absolutely no reason to raise taxes, either during or after this recession. Raising taxes has never closed budget deficits as it just gives legislatures breathing room to put off the inevitable and run up more deficits.

 

[Toro]

Why is it the libbies never ever mention cutting spending?

When the recession is over, we will have to cut spending and raise taxes. It IS inevitable. Delaying hard choices will just make things worse.

There is absolutely no reason to raise taxes, either during or after this recession. Raising taxes has never closed budget deficits as it just gives legislatures breathing room to put off the inevitable and run up more deficits.

This is bumper sticker logic. Of course raising taxes has closed budget deficits.

Tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in Canada.
Tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in in the province of Saskatchewan.
And tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in when George WH Bush and Slick Willie raised taxes.

Not to mention Reagan's tax cuts widened the deficits. The deficits would have been smaller or eliminated had Bush not cut taxes.

This isn't a serious argument.

This is from Greg Mankiw, one of Bush's former economics advisers.

"Some supply-siders like to claim that the distortionary effect of taxes is so large that increasing tax rates reduces tax revenue. Like most economists, I don't find that conclusion credible for most tax hikes. ... Yet the supply-siders are right about one thing: Because higher tax rates reduce the size of the tax base, raising taxes generates less revenue that the 'static' revenue estimates assumed in Washington would suggest."

The 'Laffer Curve' Renamed | Alan Reynolds | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary

That is exactly right. Mankiw's own work showed that a $1 cut in income taxes reduced tax revenues by 83 cents. A $1 increase in income taxes raises revenue by 83 cents. Thus, the marginal amount of tax revenue falls when income taxes rise in the United States, but the absolute amount rises.

 

[The Rabbi]

Your historical examples are nonsense.
Tax increases did not contribute to eliminating the deficit under Clinton. The internet bubble and economic growth did that.
Michigan has raised taxes to close the deficit. NJ has raised taxes to close the deficit. California has raised taxes to close the deficit. NY has raised taxes to close the deficit.
In every case the deficit is worse, not better, than it had been.
Under Reagan the deficit would have shrunk to zero had not the Democrat Congress increased spending massively. Ditto under George W Bush.
No, Reagan was right. The only way to increase gov't efficiency is to put it on a diet. And teh way to do that is not by raising taxes.

 

[elvis]

When the recession is over, we will have to cut spending and raise taxes. It IS inevitable. Delaying hard choices will just make things worse.

There is absolutely no reason to raise taxes, either during or after this recession. Raising taxes has never closed budget deficits as it just gives legislatures breathing room to put off the inevitable and run up more deficits.

This is bumper sticker logic. Of course raising taxes has closed budget deficits.

Tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in Canada.
Tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in in the province of Saskatchewan.
And tax increases contributed to the elimination of the deficit in when George WH Bush and Slick Willie raised taxes.

Not to mention Reagan's tax cuts widened the deficits. The deficits would have been smaller or eliminated had Bush not cut taxes.

This isn't a serious argument.

This is from Greg Mankiw, one of Bush's former economics advisers.

"Some supply-siders like to claim that the distortionary effect of taxes is so large that increasing tax rates reduces tax revenue. Like most economists, I don't find that conclusion credible for most tax hikes. ... Yet the supply-siders are right about one thing: Because higher tax rates reduce the size of the tax base, raising taxes generates less revenue that the 'static' revenue estimates assumed in Washington would suggest."

The 'Laffer Curve' Renamed | Alan Reynolds | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary

That is exactly right. Mankiw's own work showed that a $1 cut in income taxes reduced tax revenues by 83 cents. A $1 increase in income taxes raises revenue by 83 cents. Thus, the marginal amount of tax revenue falls when income taxes rise in the United States, but the absolute amount rises.

the tax hikes under clinton/bush did help close the deficits, but so did Clinton's massive welfare reform and defense cuts.