TN: Miscarriage will be murder

[koshergrl]

Then you're in luck.

 

[Vidi]

Choice = Abortion.

You're a baby killer and proud of it! I like that in a nazi!

Once again, ONLY your opinion matters. Once again, YOU should decide for the rest of the country. Fuck the fact not everyone has the same belief as you. You are right! And who the hell do these people think they are to disagree with YOU! How dare they!?!

 

[koshergrl]

Well, if you say so....

 

[Charles_Main]

Add TN HB 3517 to the list.



Tennessee: Miscarriage Will Be Murder — Legislature Passes Embryo Bill | The New Civil Rights Movement

Whats so new about this? There have been cases in the past where A woman is Pregnant and Murdered and the Person who did it is Charged with 2 Murders.

Why is it so hard for some people to get it? Even if you are for Abortion. If You walk up to a chick who is pregnant and punch her so hard in the Stomach she miscarries you just stopped a Life, Period.

But does our gov't see the fetus as a life.

I am pro life... I say it is murder, but if they can convict someone for killing the baby in the moms womb in that way, why not the mom and doctor at an abortion clinic?

Depends on who you ask, as I said there have been cases where people were charged with 2 murders for killing a pregnant woman. So at the Very Least there are some States that consider a Fetus a Life in that Case.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Wrong again. I'm still there for the babies and the mothers.

I've got decades in human services, dumpling. Residential treatment, juvenile detention, group homes, welfare services.

Meanwhile:

"

Forced Choice ... Threats Can Escalate to Violence or Homicide . the Leading Killer of Pregnant Women​

Many pregnant women have been killed by partners trying to prevent the birth. Simply being pregnant places women at higher risk
of being attacked.​

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9 Homicide is the leading cause of death among pregnant women.3 Women are aware of these risks. 92% of
women surveyed list domestic violence and assault as the women’s issue that is of highest concern to them.10​

Uninformed Non-Choice ... .When I learned the truth, I can.t tell you how betrayed I felt..​

• 54% were unsure of their decision, yet 67% received no counseling beforehand.​

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1​

• 84% were inadequately counseled beforehand.​

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1 79% not told or deceived about available resources.1​

• Many were misinformed by experts about fetal development, abortion alternatives or risks.​

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11​

• Many were denied essential personal, family, societal or economic support.11"

Forced Abortions

Do you honestly think that if you outlawed abortion and forced everybody back to the coat-hanger era, that would keep malicious, irresponsible mf'ers from shoving their pregnant women down flights of stairs or kicking the baby out of 'em?

The availability of an abortion doctor doesn't force anybody to beat their women.

The legality of guns doesn't force frustrated kids to shoot up their schools.

The availability of alcohol doesn't shove people into their cars and start the engine while they're hammered.

People are responsible for their actions, PERIOD.

 

[koshergrl]

Do you have a point?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Do you have a point?

Sorry, you were eloquent enough in your prior posts that I assumed you were intelligent enough to grasp what I was getting at, but apparently I need to spell that one out for you. My point was that the point you were trying to make with your statistical post about pregnant women and homicide was a false one.

 

[koshergrl]

What point do you think I was trying to make?

 

[koshergrl]

Ok, well you're just rambling incoherently now, so there's no point in commenting.

 

[BDBoop]

Ok, well you're just rambling incoherently now, so there's no point in commenting.

And yet you did. How odd.

 

[Vidi]

Ok, well you're just rambling incoherently now, so there's no point in commenting.

ahhh the dream...

 

[BDBoop]

Ok, well you're just rambling incoherently now, so there's no point in commenting.

ahhh the dream...

She's a tease. She couldn't stop typing if her life depended on it. Wrap her in duct tape, she'll get voice-to-text recognition up and running in 15 seconds flat.

We're cursed.

 

[Vidi]

Just to be clear. Here is the TN 1st degree murder law:

THE NEW law (not yet signed into law by the Governor, apparently) reads in pertinent part: See, Bill Text: TN House Bill 3517 - 107th General Assembly | LegiScan

39-13-202 is directly impacted by the new law, Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the language quoted above.

The section which would be changed has read (and will continue to read as follows until/unless the Governor signs it and the date for its effectiveness then arrives): 39-13-214 - Viable fetus as victim. :: 2010 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Taken together, then, the law is pretty clear. It amends a criminal (murder 1st degree) statute to now explicitly cover a viable fetus as a human being in relation to criminal acts committed against a pregnant woman which cause the viable fetus to be miscarried.

Thank you.

Seeing the legislation, there is a clear distinction.

A criminal act must be committed for the fetus to be considered life and therefore a human being. Provided that a doctor performed abortion is legal, a doctor aborted fetus would not be considered a human being.

This legislation allows for the prosecution of criminals without changing the rights of a woman to choose. I can foresee a year or two down the road there will be some weird application of this law that will cause a national stir, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

That being said, I still feel that life in one instance but not another is a contradiction.


Anyone care to explain the distinction? ( without the partisan bullshit.)

Yes.

In fact, if you read the proposed law (pending the Governor's signature) it goes out of its way to reaffirm that abortion remains legal.

As for your question, without partisanship, here is my "answer."

Since the OBJECTIVE is to criminalize the criminal acts of someone who would cause injury to another person (in this case, murder), the "victim" has to BE a "person" for the law to work. Because abortion laws make it questionable whether a fetus is a "person," it is deemed necessary to legislatively DEFINE "person" -- under these specific circumstances -- as INCLUDING a fetus.

Under other circumstances, a fetus simply does not meet the definition -- by design.

But under these criminal circumstances, a fetus DOES meet the definition.

It is precisely the differing circumstances that the law was trying to reach.

Beyond that, no. I can't answer your question. But I have ZERO problem with Tennessee striving to accomplish that otherwise contradictory outcome.

Good answer. And I agree. I too have ZERO problem with it.

 

[AnonymousIV]

Bill Summary
Under present law, the victim of an assaultive offense or a homicide includes a fetus of a human being, regardless of viability of the fetus, when any such term refers to the victim of any act made criminal by the provisions governing such offenses, and when at the time of the criminal act the victim was pregnant. It is the legislative intent that such provision in no way affect abortion, and such provision may not apply to acts that are committed pursuant to usual and customary standards of medical practice during diagnostic or therapeutic treatment.

This bill rewrites the above provisions. This bill instead specifies that the victim of an assaultive offense or a homicide includes a human embryo or fetus at any stage of gestation in utero, when any such term refers to the victim of any act made criminal by the provisions governing such offenses, and when at the time of the criminal act the victim was pregnant. This provision would not apply to any act or omission by a pregnant woman with respect to an embryo or fetus with which she is pregnant, or to any lawful medical or surgical procedure to which a pregnant woman consents, performed by a health care professional who is licensed to perform such procedure.

ON APRIL 18, 2012, THE HOUSE ADOPTED AMENDMENT #1 AND PASSED HOUSE BILL 3517, AS AMENDED.

AMENDMENT #1 removes references to the victim being pregnant at the time of the criminal offense.

 

[hortysir]

Women jailed for miscarriages — RT

Intentionally committed miscarriages should be.
That wasn't the intent of the original claim of mothers being arrested for miscarriages