Tis the season?

[MissileMan]

Sure do. How about a kerry/edwards bumper sticker?

Humorous, but I know that you know that not all democrats are atheists.

 

[sagegirl]

I do not celebrate Christmas (capitalized and no "X" so as not to offend) but I have no problem or objection to those who are celebrating and all their traditions .....to put up exhibits, even in public places. I just think this is a non issue and all expressions of Joy should be tolerated. I think the lights are pretty, I dont like the carols, heard them year after year and they are pretty stale, I dont shop so I dont have any problem with the crowds, and people do seem to get themselves stressed out with all their plans and obligations. I take advantage of the arrival of the new year to be festive during this season. so to all of you....

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!

 

[Thornton]

Whooooaaaaa people.

Look the 1st post was made by Merlin1047 and I questioned his point so I'd know what it was and he told me in the next post. HE WAS UPSET AT MACY'S not the ACLU or anyone else, for changing to Happy Holiday greetings.

GMAFB people. I say merely that Happy Holidays resepcts all religions and get called a liberal, a athiest and I don't know what else. I call it crap and now I don't have tough skin? Go mind fuck someone else, cause I don't jump through those hoops. My skins probably as tough as all of yours. But don't piss on my leg they try and tell me it's raining.

How chickenshit to go off about me agreeing that Happy Holidays is a good greetng for EVERYONE, then try and twist it around like it's all the ACLUs fault and act like I need you to explain something to me about it. UUUUmmm you don't need to explain shit to me about the ACLU or what they do. Don't insult my intellegence at every turn because I agree on one thing with a business. No where at the begining of this did any of you say you opposed the ACLU. All you did was oppose Macy's and ANYONE who thinks saying Happy Holidays is a good idea. It didn't have anything to do with the other stuff until after all the Christian holiday defense modes.

Christians are not sharing their month with other religions. Better check why Christmas is in December instead of the month Jesus was born. It's because Jews were the first converts and hannaka is in December. It was more easy to combine Christmas with that already existing holiday. The Muslim holiday was celebrated in December thousands of years before Jesus was born. They are sharing their month with Christians. Not the other way around. Catch up, and your debates will be more grounded in TRUTH, not pompous, chest pounding, bible thumping, name calling post. Happy Holidays!

 

[Gem]

Goodbye Christmas?
Charles Krauthammer (archive)

"Holiday celebrations where Christmas music is being sung make people feel different, and because it is such a majority, it makes the minority feel uncomfortable.''
-- Mark Brownstein, parent, Maplewood, N.J., supporting the school board's banning of religious music from holiday concerts.

"You want my advice? Go back to Bulgaria.''
-- Humphrey Bogart, in "Casablanca.''

WASHINGTON -- It is Christmas time, and what would Christmas be without the usual platoon of annoying pettifoggers rising annually to strip Christmas of any Christian content. With some success:

School districts in New Jersey and Florida ban Christmas carols. The mayor of Somerville, Mass., apologizes for ``mistakenly'' referring to the town's ``holiday party'' as a ``Christmas party.'' The Broward and Fashion malls in South Florida put up a Hanukkah menorah but no nativity scene. The manager of one of the malls explains: Hanukkah commemorates a battle and not a religious event, although he hastens to add ``I really don't know a lot about it.'' He does not. Hanukkah commemorates a miracle, and there is no event more ``religious'' than a miracle.

The attempts to de-Christianize Christmas are as absurd as they are relentless. The United States today is the most tolerant and diverse society in history. It celebrates all faiths with an open heart and open-mindedness that, compared to even the most advanced countries in Europe, are unique.

Yet more than 80 percent of Americans are Christian and probably 95 percent of Americans celebrate Christmas. Christmas Day is an official federal holiday, the only day of the entire year when, for example, the Smithsonian museums are closed. Are we to pretend that Christmas is nothing but an orgy of commerce in celebration of ... what? The winter solstice?

I personally like Christmas because, as a day that for me is otherwise ordinary, I get to do nice things, such as covering for as many gentile colleagues as I could when I was a doctor at Massachusetts General Hospital. I will admit that my generosity had its rewards: I collected enough chits on Christmas Day to get reciprocal coverage not just for Yom Kippur, but for both days of Rosh Hashana and my other major holiday, Opening Day at Fenway.

Mind you, I've got nothing against Hanukkah, although I am constantly amused -- and gratified -- by how American culture has gone out of its way to inflate the importance of Hanukkah, easily the least important of Judaism's seven holidays, into a giant event replete with cards, presents and public commemorations as a creative way to give Jews their Christmas equivalent.

Some Americans get angry at parents who want to ban carols because they tremble that their kids might feel ``different'' and ``uncomfortable'' should they, God forbid, hear Christian music sung at their school. I feel pity. What kind of fragile religious identity have they bequeathed their children that it should be threatened by exposure to carols?

I'm struck by the fact that you almost never find Orthodox Jews complaining about a Christmas creche in the public square. That is because their children, steeped in the richness of their own religious tradition, know who they are and are not threatened by Christians celebrating their religion in public. They are enlarged by it.

It is the more deracinated members of religious minorities, brought up largely ignorant of their own traditions, whose religious identity is so tenuous that they feel the need to be constantly on guard against displays of other religions -- and who think the solution to their predicament is to prevent the other guy from displaying his religion, rather than learning a bit about their own.

To insist that the overwhelming majority of this country stifle its religious impulses in public so that minorities can feel ``comfortable'' not only understandably enrages the majority, but commits two sins. The first is profound ungenerosity toward a majority of fellow citizens who have shown such generosity of spirit toward minority religions.

The second is the sin of incomprehension -- a failure to appreciate the uniqueness of the communal American religious experience. Unlike, for example, the famously tolerant Ottoman Empire or the generally tolerant Europe of today, America does not merely allow minority religions to exist at its sufferance. It celebrates and welcomes and honors them.

America transcended the idea of mere toleration in 1790 in Washington's letter to the Newport synagogue, one of the lesser known glories of the Founding: ``It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights.''

More than two centuries later, it is time that members of religious (and anti-religious) minorities, as full citizens of this miraculous republic, transcend something too: petty defensiveness.

Merry Christmas. To all.

www.townhall.com

 

[menewa]

Macy's is a private store, they have the right to put up whatever type of sign they want.

This isn't an attack on Christianity. That's an assanine assumption.

The store is simply trying to appeal to the largest market base possible. Albeit, it might backfire if large numbers of Christians decide to boycott. But I doubt that will happen.

 

[Gem]

menewa,

Of course Macy's has a right to put up the sign they feel is right for their business...I haven't heard anyone here argue otherwise. However, Macy's put up Merry Christmas signs for years...the store was the basis for the famous movie, "Miracle on 34th Street" which was about Santa Claus existing and making Christmas real for the citizens of New York...it only changed its tune after a small number of people complained...

Macy's did NOT change to be more inclusive. Although I find such naively optimistic opinions heartening, they simply are not truthful...they changed because a small but vocal group of people were whining.

I have no problem with someone saying "Happy Holidays," rather than "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Chanukah." What I DO take issue with is people, stores, etc. being forced to change things they have done for decades because a vocal minority feels "offended" that 96% of people in the US celebrate a holiday they don't like.

 

[Comrade]

I think both menewa and gem are right, and in this case it is obvious that:

A: No government action is being taken (nor likely to be taken) upon Macy's for calling the season whatever the hell it wants.

B: It may or may not be a good marketing decision. I sure as hell wouldn't buy stock in a company which appeases the thin-skinned people in America in which any theme with 'Christ' is somehow insulting, but then again Macys is centralized in NYC... and what is that, 80%+ Democrats?

As far as I'm concerned, the word 'Christmas' is not a usurptation of my rights, nor a harbinger of religious totalitarianism.

Remember, the man was crucified for his own, minority beliefs. Anyone who has a problem with it is missing the point of the sacrifice.

 

[Merlin1047]

Whooooaaaaa people.

Look the 1st post was made by Merlin1047 and I questioned his point so I'd know what it was and he told me in the next post. HE WAS UPSET AT MACY'S not the ACLU or anyone else, for changing to Happy Holiday greetings.

Clean up your act.

The excessive vulgarity in your post is inappropriate and uncalled for.

 

[Bonnie]

menewa,

Of course Macy's has a right to put up the sign they feel is right for their business...I haven't heard anyone here argue otherwise. However, Macy's put up Merry Christmas signs for years...the store was the basis for the famous movie, "Miracle on 34th Street" which was about Santa Claus existing and making Christmas real for the citizens of New York...it only changed its tune after a small number of people complained...

Macy's did NOT change to be more inclusive. Although I find such naively optimistic opinions heartening, they simply are not truthful...they changed because a small but vocal group of people were whining.

I have no problem with someone saying "Happy Holidays," rather than "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Chanukah." What I DO take issue with is people, stores, etc. being forced to change things they have done for decades because a vocal minority feels "offended" that 96% of people in the US celebrate a holiday they don't like.

Absolutely Gem............The ACLU has everyone, towns, schools, stores scared of ridiculous lawsuits if they allow the 96% of holiday celebrants to have Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays, this is an absolute infringement on free speech rights (which the ACLU claims tirelessly they represent). This is the small minority suing the majorty to shut up!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thornton]

Clean up your act.

The excessive vulgarity in your post is inappropriate and uncalled for.

LMAO. Is that how you *debate* when someone points out the truth is a thread you made?

Can you please verify what your position originally was about Macy's? People now seem to think the government is involved somehow. ???

Hey other posters! This is about Macy's changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and some people being offended and wanting to boycott! No government attack or ACLU attack I see. just a good business decision.

 

[Comrade]

A good business decision? That remains to be seen.

But I think everyone should be in agreement it is indeed the companys' fundamental right to market it's sales the in the way it deems appropriate.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a sign of how international and multilateral NYC has become. Whether such future for all the worlds' international hubs is good or bad is a much deeper discussion.

 

[no1tovote4]

LMAO. Is that how you *debate* when someone points out the truth is a thread you made?

Can you please verify what your position originally was about Macy's? People now seem to think the government is involved somehow. ???

Hey other posters! This is about Macy's changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and some people being offended and wanting to boycott! No government attack or ACLU attack I see. just a good business decision.

It will really depend on whether many Christians do boycott, it may be a poor business decision...

 

[Bonnie]

LMAO. Is that how you *debate* when someone points out the truth is a thread you made?

Can you please verify what your position originally was about Macy's? People now seem to think the government is involved somehow. ???

Hey other posters! This is about Macy's changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and some people being offended and wanting to boycott! No government attack or ACLU attack I see. just a good business decision.

So pissing off the majority to make the minority happy is just sound business policy?? Yes that makes a lot of sense to me??? Btw I have a relative that works at Macy's corporate and she tells me Macy's sales are down 28% so far during the "Holiday season"

 

[no1tovote4]

So pissing off the majority to make the minority happy is just sound business policy?? Yes that makes a lot of sense to me??? Btw I have a relative that works at Macy's corporate and she tells me Macy's sales are down 28% so far during the "Holiday season"

Excellent. It appears that excluding every holiday by giving none of them names is not the best policy. If they want to be inclusive they should have signs for each of the holidays. I think Macy's could afford to put up Chaunnuka, Christmas, and even Kwanzaa signs if they wanted, and I would bet nobody would be boycotting if they had. Well maybe they could before this year....

 

[Merlin]

Interesting article.
http://www.local6.com/news/4004867/detail.html
Judge: Town Must Allow Woman To Display Christmas Decorations

POSTED: 1:23 am EST December 17, 2004
UPDATED: 1:26 am EST December 17, 2004

BAY HARBOR ISLANDS, Fla. ( -- A federal judge has ruled that a resident must be allowed to display Christian decorations alongside a public Jewish holiday display.

Resident Sondra Snowdon had sued the town of Bay Harbor Islands after it rejected her requests for the decorations.

Town leaders put up six Stars of David and a giant menorah in 2001 after some Jewish residents requested them. Two years later, Snowdon requested Christian decorations, but was turned down.

She made the same request this year and sued on December Second after the city denied her request to include four nativity scene banners.

In the suit filed in U.S. District Court in Miami, Snowdon claimed that the town had violated her civil rights. The suit named the town, City Manager Greg Tindle and Mayor Isaac Salver as defendants.

U.S. District Court Judge Cecilia Altonaga ruled yesterday that the town favored Judaism by having a menorah in its display next to the toll bridge over the Broad Causeway.

The town is required to tell the court in writing how they will include Christian symbols in the causeway

 

[menewa]

That is an interesting article Merlin.

Public displays are different from private displays in a store. If citizens in the town go to their city council and request religious decorations for a major holiday, such as Christmas, then they should certainly be allowed to do so.

It's strange that the woman had a tougher time installing Christmas decorations than the other group seemed to have erecting Jewish symbols. They go hand in hand really. For Jesus was a Jewish reformer. He simply wanted more tolerance in his religion. But that seemed to be too much for the rabbis in control at the time so his disciples had to go to the gentiles and create Christianity. But then, the Romans got ahold of it and it all went straight to hell.