Time to Get Rid of Religion?

[Avatar4321]

Not at all. It is always possible to prove a negative, IF you can demonstrate the opposite (that there is a God) and demonstrate a logical contradiction. For example, Euclid used this method to prove that there is no largest prime number. For the record, I'm not aware of any such proof about the non-existence of God. I'm claiming only that it would be possible to prove.

Well, when that happens, Ill have to change my view. But quite frankly, I dont see how its possible to prove God doesnt exist.

I wouldn't disagree. Unfortunately, many of the greatest minds in history have tried to prove the existence of God through logic and reason alone. And so far it hasn't happened.

Im not going to disagree there. Because I dont think anyone can truly know God through reason and logic alone. Ive stated the limits logic and reason have multiple times on this board. But then, I think the knowledge of the Spirit comes from the Spirit. If you want to know God, you have to have personal experiences with Him. You need to recieve revelation.

Of course, to do this you have to first accept the possibility that it's possible and that youd recognize it when it happens. Its always amazed me how few people can accept this whether believers or nonbelievers. Although, Ive always been more amazed that people who believe in God can be so resistant to revelation. But then, I think it scares them. Especially if they have scriptures they believe. It's alot easier to believe that dead people you never knew learned from God and that God inspired men ages ago, but that He isnt today. Because faith, true faith, isnt as easy as people seem to think. Atleast not in this world. Its easier to accept whats happened in the past then accept that it can happen to you today. Why do you think history repeats itself?

 

[HUGGY]

I don't practice what I don't believe in and no one needs to pray for me thank you very much. Once you realise the truth you will see you don't need the dogma.

Well, I'll be praying for you anyway and guess what? You can't do anything about it except bitch and moan...

I'm gonna pray your prayers have no effect!

 

[Amanda]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Seems to me like you're confusing religion and what people do in the name of religion. Even if you somehow managed to get rid of religion there would still be people and they would still seek to control others so the problem you think you've identified would just shift and then you'd have to get rid of that, and then it would shift again and you'd have t oget rid of that, etc. The only real solution for the problem is to get rid of people.

 

[Avatar4321]

Seems to me like you're confusing religion and what people do in the name of religion. Even if you somehow managed to get rid of religion there would still be people and they would still seek to control others so the problem you think you've identified would just shift and then you'd have to get rid of that, and then it would shift again and you'd have t oget rid of that, etc. The only real solution for the problem is to get rid of people.

You're very astute and correct on that one. In fact, I think if people actually sat down, understood their religion, and lived it, we would have far less of these problems than otherwise. Unfortunately, most people seem to go hog crazy with power. It's why many are called, but few are chosen One of my scriptures addresses this:

34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?

35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.

45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever. (Doctrine and Covenants 121:34-46)

Unfortunately there are people who try to compell people to believe or act. It's never going to work well in the long run. Influence and power must come from righteous principles to have lasting effect. Otherwise it's very easy to reach the same conclusion you have, that if we follow their logic to its ultimate conclusion the only way to solve the problem is kill everyone. In fact, it's one of the reasons I think many aspects of the environmentalist movement can be so dangerous. The logical conclusion of alot of their premises is human extinction for the greater good of the world.

Thankfully we live in a society where we arent adopting such extremes. But only a fool who ignores history would think we can end up at a time where such beliefs are wide spread and carried out.

All and all it comes to people taking beautiful things and corrupting them into something horrible.

 

[N4mddissent]

Pathetic ad hom; a point remains valid regardless of the source

Maybe it's just me, but when I start thinking things a mass murdering dictator think, I have to question where what Im thinking is valid and/or dangerous.

Fallacious thinking.

I'm sure Hitler loved his mother. So does loving your mother mean you're thinking like Hitler?

You're trying to poison the well.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

If you want to know God, you have to have personal experiences with Him. You need to recieve revelation.

Of course, to do this you have to first accept the possibility that it's possible and that youd recognize it when it happens.

I don't know what your position is on this issue, but the above statements pre-suppose that God is not all-powerful.

Clearly an all-powerful god who wanted to reveal himself to someone would be able to open that person's mind to the possibility and give him or her the ability to recognize revelation.

 

[Avatar4321]

Fallacious thinking.

I'm sure Hitler loved his mother. So does loving your mother mean you're thinking like Hitler?

You're trying to poison the well.

Hardly. Simply voicing good counsel. Do you really think loving one's mother leads to mass murder of people? Is it a generally held idea or something more specifically unique to him?

I think bad action comes from bad thinking. So it's smart to question the thought process of those who do bad things. Self evaluation is never bad.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you want to know God, you have to have personal experiences with Him. You need to recieve revelation.

Of course, to do this you have to first accept the possibility that it's possible and that youd recognize it when it happens.

I don't know what your position is on this issue, but the above statements pre-suppose that God is not all-powerful.

Clearly an all-powerful god who wanted to reveal himself to someone would be able to open that person's mind to the possibility and give him or her the ability to recognize revelation.

Simply because one has power to do everything possible, doesnt mean one does it.

All men have the ability to rape women. Most don't though.

God has given man the ability to choose. To think and believe according to the dictates of their conscience. You think He is going to give them that gift to simply turn around and take it away?

There is a reason we are given this gift. Because God wants us to learn. And we dont learn if we dont strive to learn. And we wont strive to learn if He just gives us everything without any effort. He is also not going to condemn us by revealing Eternal Truth's we arent prepared for. He will teach us line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little until we are able to bear all things.

 

[Anguille]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Seems to me like you're confusing religion and what people do in the name of religion. Even if you somehow managed to get rid of religion there would still be people and they would still seek to control others so the problem you think you've identified would just shift and then you'd have to get rid of that, and then it would shift again and you'd have t oget rid of that, etc. The only real solution for the problem is to get rid of people.

LOL! Sad but some truth to what you say.-

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Don't like religion, don't practice it.

great minds...


but what about tax policy? what say you about taxing religious institutions or their nonprofits arms?

 

[Anguille]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Good luck with that.
While I sometimes wish everyone was a sensible atheist like myself I just don't think you can eliminate religion altogether. It seems to fulfill a psychological need for many people and for the most part there is nothing wrong with that. It's when religion gets used to control others and people with a shallow sense of self and a need to attach themselves to charismatic authority figures get led astray that religion can get to be a problem for society. I do think that if children were not exposed to religion till a later age, the way they are kept from smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol, then we would have fewer and fewer people calling themselves religious. I actually think most of the world is privately agnostic anyway. People just attend church or identify as this or that out of habit, because it's tied into their ethnic customs or just in order to fit in.

 

[sidneyworld]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Aside any discussion of religion, you are indeed and without question, a complete and total fucking asshole.

Have a nice day.

Anne Marie

 

[publicprotector]

I must admit the religeous diaribe posted here makes me laugh, so much nonsense about god and the lord and from people who are so controlled they don't even understand it in the first place.

If any other scenario based on no proofs what soever was put to any sane person they would refuse to believeit out of hand. Thus how can anyone expect any kind of logical answer from a person who has been brainwashed from birth to believe infantasies so ingrained in their mind that they believeit to be the truth and seek to prove those truths with tricks and even real life events and claim its is the work of the lord.

What complete and utter bunkum and proof positive of just how effective this brainwashing is. Religion is for the weak minded, those who are frightened over their own shadows and the dark. Like chidren who have never grown up they try to live their lives by orders from thosewho would quite happily see them all dead, its god wish and all that crap.

If anyone wanted to realise or understand how easy humans are to control and manipulate it can be summed up in just one word RELIGION. Even after 2 thousand years people are still dying for these so called beliefs fighting wars where their god is stronger than the enemies etc. again why just how dumb do you have to be. And as for religion never changing it is less and less believe and eventually it hopefully will disapear altogether for the betterment of all mankind. Man has been around far longer than any religion has proof positive that it is not needed.

One wonders what the religeous types will do when all thsi ends, will their world fall apart, will everything end no life will go on as if it never existed and people will continue to live their lives only this time free from fantasy and control.

 

[Avatar4321]

I must admit the religeous diaribe posted here makes me laugh, so much nonsense about god and the lord and from people who are so controlled they don't even understand it in the first place.

So if I understand you correctly, anyone who disagree with you is a controlled idiot?

If any other scenario based on no proofs what soever was put to any sane person they would refuse to believeit out of hand. Thus how can anyone expect any kind of logical answer from a person who has been brainwashed from birth to believe infantasies so ingrained in their mind that they believeit to be the truth and seek to prove those truths with tricks and even real life events and claim its is the work of the lord.

I can't help but think people like yourself simply have no idea what logic is. Nor what evidence or proof is. Can you prove the sun is going to rise tomorrow morning?

And you conclude that if people arent logical, they are insane? If that's the case then you are insane by your own word.

What complete and utter bunkum and proof positive of just how effective this brainwashing is. Religion is for the weak minded, those who are frightened over their own shadows and the dark. Like chidren who have never grown up they try to live their lives by orders from thosewho would quite happily see them all dead, its god wish and all that crap.

If you're so strong minded, why don't you actually try to discuss things instead of rant. If you're so mature, why don't you act llike it?

If anyone wanted to realise or understand how easy humans are to control and manipulate it can be summed up in just one word RELIGION. Even after 2 thousand years people are still dying for these so called beliefs fighting wars where their god is stronger than the enemies etc. again why just how dumb do you have to be. And as for religion never changing it is less and less believe and eventually it hopefully will disapear altogether for the betterment of all mankind. Man has been around far longer than any religion has proof positive that it is not needed.

And what evidence do you have of this? Do you have documented histories of early man? Do you have them writing that they dont believe in God?

One wonders what the religeous types will do when all thsi ends, will their world fall apart, will everything end no life will go on as if it never existed and people will continue to live their lives only this time free from fantasy and control.

How do you expect this is going to end?

 

[publicprotector]

Like putting words in other peoples mouths do you? I said people who are controlled by religion are weak and affraid, where did I say they are idiots. If you want to discuss a topic then dicuss it honestly and don't lie or fudge the issue.

Rather than assuming people need religion assume that they don't and how better off they would be without it. There is no knowledge of religion in mans past other than pagan beliefs. Its is indeed possible that if past civilisations existed so may have religion but there is no recorded history of it.

Try and discuss matters without getting emotional it works.

 

[manu1959]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

good luck in mecca...........

 

[Avatar4321]

Like putting words in other peoples mouths do you? I said people who are controlled by religion are weak and affraid, where did I say they are idiots. If you want to discuss a topic then dicuss it honestly and don't lie or fudge the issue.

So your saying that you didnt say they were brainwashed, insane, and illogical? That isnt questioning their intellectual ability?

Rather than assuming people need religion assume that they don't and how better off they would be without it. There is no knowledge of religion in mans past other than pagan beliefs. Its is indeed possible that if past civilisations existed so may have religion but there is no recorded history of it.

So what your saying is you cant back up what you claimed.

Try and discuss matters without getting emotional it works.

how is pointing out that the extent of your argument is they are brainwashed, insane, etc. emotional?

 

[manu1959]

Like putting words in other peoples mouths do you? I said people who are controlled by religion are weak and affraid, where did I say they are idiots. If you want to discuss a topic then dicuss it honestly and don't lie or fudge the issue.

Rather than assuming people need religion assume that they don't and how better off they would be without it. There is no knowledge of religion in mans past other than pagan beliefs. Its is indeed possible that if past civilisations existed so may have religion but there is no recorded history of it.

Try and discuss matters without getting emotional it works.

how do you figure religion controls them......how do arrive at the conclusion that they are weak and affraid.....

isn't religion just a set of beliefs that help guide onces choices in life.....

you know like societies secular laws that one must follow or go to jail.....talk about the weak and afraid.....

 

[RadiomanATL]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Well there Mister, how do you plan to "remove those who ram it down our throats"?

 

[Anguille]

As highly developed life forms is it not time to rid ourselves of the mind control tricks and wizards that have peddled this religeous fantasy. That the control and manipulation to say nothing of the murder, torture, suffering and death of millions all in the name of complete and utter fairy tales.

What can anyone say in defense of such monstrous crimes against man. woman and child, the obstruction of knowledge, the insatiable greed for wealth, the perversion of justice and the untold suffering all in the name of manufactured stories.

Religion, that greatest crime starts at birth with the continuous brainwashing and ends at the grave. No other form of knowledge, law or any other subject is used to manipulate humans in such a way, total mind and thought control.

It is time to remove the chains of this nonsense and to remove those who ram it down our throats. For far to long man has allowed himself to be tricked by the devils who ply this odious trade.

Aside any discussion of religion, you are indeed and without question, a complete and total fucking asshole.

Have a nice day.

Anne Marie

Well said. Come again soon, and feel free to contribute more in depth analysis.

Anne Marie