Time to Dump the Democrats

[Toro]

A battle over whether the U.S. should curb its use of oil produced from Canada's oil sands is straining ties between the countries and comes amid a wider debate about the safest and cleanest ways to extract fossil fuels.

Rep. Henry Waxman (D., Calif.), chairman of the House energy committee, this week urged Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to veto the expansion of a giant pipeline that would roughly double the amount of oil-sands crude Canada ships to the U.S., calling it a "multi-billion dollar investment to expand our reliance on the dirtiest source of transportation fuel currently available."

Environmental groups are planning protests Thursday at the Canadian embassy in Washington, consulates and along the route of the proposed extension, sections of which run from Canada to Texas. A spokesman for TransCanada Corp., which is building the pipeline, said TransCanada disagreed with Mr. Waxman's assertions and that the project would create jobs and revenue for states.

The northeastern part of the Canadian province of Alberta is home to a vast deposit of oil sands, also known as tar sands, that produces a densely compacted petroleum called bitumen, which is difficult to extract and energy-intensive to refine. Environmental groups say production of crude from the sludge can emit about three times the greenhouse gas that more conventional operations do. Oil-sands companies counter that when emissions from burning the gasoline refined from the crude are included, their oil is only 5% to 15% more carbon-intensive.

Mr. Waxman's statement follows a similar letter last week signed by 50 members of Congress, and is the latest volley in a struggle between environmentalists, lawmakers and Canadian oil producers over the rising amount of fuel imported from Canada's oil-sands reserves. The groups are already clashing in U.S. courts over everything from permits to ship or refine oil-sands oil to legislation that could effectively prevent the federal government from buying Canadian oil. ...

Attacks on oil-sands production could complicate relations with Canada, the U.S.'s biggest trading partner, where energy makes up about a quarter of exports. Canadian oil-sands executives and politicians have said if the U.S. doesn't take the fuel, nations like China will. The government of Alberta last week took out a full-page ad in the Washington Post defending the oil sands, stating "A good neighbour lends you a cup of sugar. A great neighbour supplies you with 1.4 million barrels of oil per day."

Fight Over Oil-Sands Imports Heats Up - WSJ.com

Well, if America won't take oil from the tar sands, the Canadians will just sell it to the Chinese.

 

[Truthmatters]

And replace them with who?

The assholes who caused the huge mess we are already in?

 

[Oddball]

Hard to tell who is more stupid, Waxman & democratics or environmentalist whackos.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

This is an interesting conflict. The stuff is horrible to refine and makes an incredible mess. We either use this stuff or we buy from the Iranians.

tough choice.

My vote is with the production of the tar sands, but I don't live anywhere near the areas that would get damaged by it. People who actually have to deal might have a different opinion.

The idea of buying oil from the Iranians is always the worst option in my book

 

[Apollo]

waxman's idiocy so often borders on mind-boggling that it's difficult to believe he still holds office.

 

[Mr. H.]

Another drawback to allowing this Canadian crude into our markets is that it drives down the price that U.S. oil producers are paid in certain areas of the country. There is a price differential called the "spread". This is the difference in the NYMEX price and the price paid for domestic oil. In Illinois, it amounts to just over $8/barrel. In some western states where Canadian crude is imported, local markets are flooded and the refining and distribution centers can't process it fast enough. Here, the "spread" can amount to as much as $20/barrel.

The current plan is to have this Canadian pipeline terminate at a facility in southern Illinois. This has local producers very worried. The hope is that the pipeline will be continued on down to the Gulf states where they can handle the additional storage and refining.

When Prudhoe Bay Alaska came on line, the state of California fought tenaciously to prevent that oil from entering its markets. They prevailed, and most of the oil is exported to Asia.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the crude market collapses again (and it will). Canada will be sending its crude across an international boundary at below market cost. This has happened before. If it were steel or any other commodity, our government would intervene- yet they stood by and did nothing while hundreds of thousands lost jobs in the U.S. petroleum industry- for the sake of cheap gasoline and votes.

 

[Old Rocks]

The refining of the tar sands is incredibly dirty and destructive of the environment. Like what we see in the Gulf, isn't it time we asked if this path is worth it?

Canada's Toxic Sands: The Most Destructive Project on Earth

Canada's Toxic Tar Sands: The Most Destructive Project on Earth

Because of their sheer scale, all Canadians are affected by the Tar Sands, no matter where they live.

If you live downstream, your water is being polluted and your fish and wildlife may be dangerous to eat. If you live in Saskatchewan you are a victim of acid rain. If you live in BC, "supertankers" may soon be plying your shoreline carrying Tar Sands oil to Asia. If you live in Ontario, you are exposed to harmful emissions from the refining of Tar Sands Oil. And the impacts do not stop at Canada's border - US refineries are re-tooling to handle the dirty oil from Alberta.

With the Tar Sands, Canada has become the world's dirty energy superpower

 

[Mr. H.]

Unless it's green, all energy is considered dirty.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Hard to tell who is more stupid, Waxman & democratics or environmentalist whackos.

You just identified the trifecta of stupidity.

 

[KissMy]

Hard to tell who is more stupid, Waxman & democratics or environmentalist whackos.

Truthmatters is way more stupid.

 

[Mad Scientist]

And replace them with who? The assholes who caused the huge mess we are already in?

Barney Frank and Chriss Dodd are already in there.

 

[Toro]

With the Tar Sands, Canada has become the world's dirty energy superpower

There could be 1.7 trillion barrels of oil equivalent in the oil sands. Needless to say, western Canadians are more than happy to be sitting on top of one of the largest energy deposits on the planet, dirty or not.

 

[JiggsCasey]

With the Tar Sands, Canada has become the world's dirty energy superpower

There could be 1.7 trillion barrels of oil equivalent in the oil sands. Needless to say, western Canadians are more than happy to be sitting on top of one of the largest energy deposits on the planet, dirty or not.

That's great. The problem is heavy oil like that requires an EROEI that will never sustain economic growth. Never. That's really the entire point. ... Cheap, easy to find and extract, 100:1 light crude is what has built industrial nations to where they are today.

Tar Sands' 1.5:1 or 2.5:1 will never do that.

The end of growth = the end of globalization.

 

[KissMy]

 

[editec]

Does it make economic sense if all costs associated with its recovery are included?

If so this project ought to be done.

But the problem will be are all the costs associated with its recovery being computed at all, or at least reasonably accurately?

What is the cost of the pollution of the water necessary to get this at this oil?

That's a serious question, folks, not a rhetorical one.

How does one compute those costs?

I really don't know.

But I'd want to know the answer to that before I started the process.

We're too far down the road, now, to pretend that the costs to the environment are meaningless.

We now know that we All LIVE DOWNSTREAM.

 

[Charles_Main]

This is an interesting conflict. The stuff is horrible to refine and makes an incredible mess. We either use this stuff or we buy from the Iranians.

Fact is if we do not do it, Someone else will. Might as well do it here so we can watch over it, instead of letting someone else do it, and having no control over it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

And replace them with who?

The assholes who caused the huge mess we are already in?

How about putting your money where your mouth is and voting in non party canidates with me.

Will you or are you just going to vote Democrat because they have a D before their name?

If you just vote D for D then D means Dumb
If you just vote R for R then R means retarded.

sorry if the word retarded offended anyone.

 

[KissMy]

And replace them with who?

The assholes who caused the huge mess we are already in?

How about putting your money where your mouth is and voting in non party canidates with me.

Will you or are you just going to vote Democrat because they have a D before their name?

If you just vote D for D then D means Dumb
If you just vote R for R then R means retarded.

sorry if the word retarded offended anyone.

I am voting T for TEArrific.

 

[HUGGY]

With the Tar Sands, Canada has become the world's dirty energy superpower

There could be 1.7 trillion barrels of oil equivalent in the oil sands. Needless to say, western Canadians are more than happy to be sitting on top of one of the largest energy deposits on the planet, dirty or not.

How does the average Canadian benefit from that oil? I thought it was privately owned. When you are talking about who we are pissing off..be specific. Oh you mean like how WE are benefiting from oil leases?

 

[Toro]

With the Tar Sands, Canada has become the world's dirty energy superpower

There could be 1.7 trillion barrels of oil equivalent in the oil sands. Needless to say, western Canadians are more than happy to be sitting on top of one of the largest energy deposits on the planet, dirty or not.

How does the average Canadian benefit from that oil? I thought it was privately owned. When you are talking about who we are pissing off..be specific. Oh you mean like how WE are benefiting from oil leases?

It has created the greatest boom in western Canada in my lifetime. For example, when things were going crazy a few years ago, fast food places in Calgary were shutting down in the middle of the afternoon because they couldn't find workers. Employees at Tim Hortons were making $15 an hour, I have been told.