Time for a New Declaration of Independence?

No dear. History was a major college focus, most especially mid Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century, and it has remained a passion my entire life. I don't make these comments in a vacuum and I back them up with quotations tied to the original documents.

Those who don't appreciate that critical part of our history try to ignore them or blow them off or accuse me of not knowing my history. I don't claim to be an expert, but I can pretty effectively back up my opinion for those intellectually honest enough to see it.

You read a great deal more into my one sentence than I intended.

I didn't read a thing into it other than you think I have a romantic notion of history. I can assure you my notions of history are anything but romantic.

Instead of asking me what I meant, you just pounced and read a WHOLE lot more into my statement than I intended.

I take it, you're offended.
 
Read the Good Old Days- They Were Terrible!" incredible long hours and drudgery- things improved in every way, right up until the 70's, when greed took over, epitomized by the huge rich/poor gap and worst ever upward mobility that are the result of Voodoo.
Americans in a great recession, fear mongered by Fox/Rush/Pubs, seem to (45% anyway) be losing it, lots of fear and conspiracy theories. When the economy comes around, everything will be fine, improved by health care system that covers everyone and controls costs that have been hamstringing the economy..
 
Fox would prefer to see the government the way it was 150 years ago. That's a romantic notion, IMO. It ignores the reality of the complex, dynamic, super power we have become.

Conservatives long for the past.

Personally, I have no interest in re-creating life as it was during the Civil War.
 
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So the great American experiment is dead? It failed? You trust professional politicians that have become a quasi king/dictator to have superior morals, values, ethics, and ideals to those of the people they govern?

Yes, it has failed and it is dead. In fact TODAY, July 3rd marks the 148th Anniversary of that death. It died on a small rise of land known as Cemetary Ridge in the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania when Union soldiers repulsed the Confederate attack which has come to be known as Pickett's Charge. In the decisive moments of that battle the fate of America hung in the balance, and with the Union victory the American Civil War was all but LOST for True Americans and the True America WAS LOST for all eternity more than likely. Pickett's Charge is the turning point in American history, and it turned out to be a turn for the WORST.

I 100%agree with you

That was the day that States Rights were buried.

And the rise of the totalitarian Federal Government was born

You're wrong. The day States Rights were lost was when the 17th amendment was passed eliminating the check the States had on the Federal Government by seizing control of the Senate away from them.

It's not a coincidence that after that special interests took control in Washington and spending exploded. We were lucky to have Harding and Coolidge delay it alittle and actually cut spending for a while. But because the States no longer had a check, the only check was the politicians. and since Hoover/FDR days the politicians have lost the moral character and will to police themselves.
 
Fox would prefer to see the government the way it was 150 years ago. That's a romantic notion, IMO. It ignores the reality of the complex, dynamic, super power we have become.

Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.
 
Fox would prefer to see the government the way it was 150 years ago. That's a romantic notion, IMO. It ignores the reality of the complex, dynamic, super power we have become.

Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.

The country and the world have changed, and for the better.
 
Fox would prefer to see the government the way it was 150 years ago. That's a romantic notion, IMO. It ignores the reality of the complex, dynamic, super power we have become.

True.
Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.
And human nature compels us to do better, to improve, to progress…

Human nature also causes some to be afraid of change and progress.

I know, don’t bother: this is progress for the worst, this is bad progress…etc…

Maybe yes, maybe no – it doesn’t really matter and it doesn’t alter the fact that change is inevitable, one must either accept it and adapt or – not.

But there’s no going back.
 
The problem with the confederacy winning is that they CONDONED SLAVERY. Nobody can justify slavery. It is a part of america that is totally embarassing. The slaves were badly mistreated, most all of them. They would have been much better off being free as they were considered property of some greedy slimy filthy white owner.
 
Fox would prefer to see the government the way it was 150 years ago. That's a romantic notion, IMO. It ignores the reality of the complex, dynamic, super power we have become.

Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.

The country and the world have changed, and for the better.

Because of capitalism and freedom.
 
So the question is:

Do you agree with the strong majority that a free people govern themselves?

Or do you agree with the political class that a strong central government is necessary to govern the people?

are you suggesting a communist form of government where the collective runs everything and there is no government? :eusa_whistle:

 
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Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.

The country and the world have changed, and for the better.

Because of capitalism and freedom.

The country has changed because the south lost the civil war, for one thing. The Civil War heralded the end of slavery. We've continued to progress, and not because we're stuck in the past. We've adjusted to the truth of who lives in our country.

We're a plurality, and strong because of it.
 
This whole discussion is a bunch of BULLSHIT!

The government is NOT the problem. The WEALTHY and the CORPORATIONS are the ones who rule over us AND our government.

If we want "government for and by the people" we have to break the grip that the wealthy have on our government.
 
The country and the world have changed, and for the better.

Because of capitalism and freedom.

The country has changed because the south lost the civil war, for one thing. The Civil War heralded the end of slavery. We've continued to progress, and not because we're stuck in the past. We've adjusted to the truth of who lives in our country.

We're a plurality, and strong because of it.

Out of idle curiosity, what exactly do you think we are progressing to?
 
This whole discussion is a bunch of BULLSHIT!

The government is NOT the problem. The WEALTHY and the CORPORATIONS are the ones who rule over us AND our government.

If we want "government for and by the people" we have to break the grip that the wealthy have on our government.

Or we could simply govern ourselves and stop being so jealous and greedy for what other people have.
 
Human nature hasn't changed. The rules that governed human nature apply today just as much as they did 150 years ago.

The country and the world have changed, and for the better.

Because of capitalism and freedom.

no. because of liberal ideals like emancipation, the great society and new deal. and because of supreme court justices who actually protected individual rights.

in fact the results of laissez faire capitalism was a huge part of the problem that needed correcting.
 
This whole discussion is a bunch of BULLSHIT!

The government is NOT the problem. The WEALTHY and the CORPORATIONS are the ones who rule over us AND our government.

If we want "government for and by the people" we have to break the grip that the wealthy have on our government.

Or we could simply govern ourselves and stop being so jealous and greedy for what other people have.

By "governing ourselves", you mean wealthy people ruling over everybody else.

I'm not jealous or greedy about what other people have, just because they have it. I'm mad about what non-productive people have stolen from the productive people.

Of course, you never actually made a car or a house or any but a pittance of your clothing, now have you? You have created almost no wealth in your life.

Everything that you own just magically appears in the stores for you to buy, with your money, that you have just because you are 'better' than all those ugly, worthless people that work in the mines and factories, right?
 
"Or we could simply govern ourselves and stop being so jealous and greedy for what other people have."
__________________
Under voodoo, the richest have more than doubled their wealth while everyone else has lost out. The last time the rich were taxed so little and regulations were lax, we had the first Pub Great Depression. You appear to not understand the rich and corporations are the ones doing the class warfare and theft, and for 30 years now.. Tax cuts on them only work when they're not already bloated...
 
The country and the world have changed, and for the better.

Because of capitalism and freedom.

no. because of liberal ideals like emancipation, the great society and new deal. and because of supreme court justices who actually protected individual rights.

in fact the results of laissez faire capitalism was a huge part of the problem that needed correcting.

Indeed.

American would have been a far stronger nation today had an environmental impact study been required before building the intercontinental rail road, and anti-descrimination work laws been in effect for laborers..... I'll not even count the benefits that OSHA would have had in expanding the nation's industrial base.

:eusa_angel:
 
Because of capitalism and freedom.

no. because of liberal ideals like emancipation, the great society and new deal. and because of supreme court justices who actually protected individual rights.

in fact the results of laissez faire capitalism was a huge part of the problem that needed correcting.

Indeed.

American would have been a far stronger nation today had an environmental impact study been required before building the intercontinental rail road, and anti-descrimination work laws been in effect for laborers..... I'll not even count the benefits that OSHA would have had in expanding the nation's industrial base.

:eusa_angel:

is it a terrible thing to balance the needs of business with conservation of our environment?

or heaven forbid, making sure workers don't lose hands, fingers, hearing or get cancer from workplace carcinogens.

the horror...
 

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