Throwing in the towel

[Zoomie1980]

What's the use of that? He's made it very clear: He doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone but himself, and could never understand why anyone would think otherwise. It doesn't show he's cruel or any less of a person, just that he's tremendously short-sighted, and hasn't come to the realization that regardless of his assets he's not isolated from the reality of the masses.

I care about the people I know. I don't care a whit about you, your children or anyone else you know. I take care of my family and my personal friends. And I choose my friends based on the strength of their character. I care about those.

I don't give a damn about yours, they are not my problem.

Now that's not something you usually will get anyone to admit to. But when push comes to shove, when it comes to me and mine in a survival situation vs you and yours, no matter how "nice" you are, I'm going with mine.

As for the "masses"? This isn't late 18th century France or early 20th century Russia. We live in a day where a one single soldier/law enforcement person can kill thousands of masses all by himself....

I'm not an idealist. I live in REALITY. I KNOW the human condition and rather than live in fog of what I wish was true, I simply accept the cold, hard, cruel REALITY of what we are. And we are NOT that far removed from our brethren in the animal kingdom, as much as we wish we were...

 

[Diuretic]

Yes, if I got sick. But I can afford it so it's not a problem of mine...

What if you couldn't? Would you like someone to give you a hand?

 

[Diuretic]

I care about the people I know. I don't care a whit about you, your children or anyone else you know. I take care of my family and my personal friends. And I choose my friends based on the strength of their character. I care about those.

I don't give a damn about yours, they are not my problem.

Now that's not something you usually will get anyone to admit to. But when push comes to shove, when it comes to me and mine in a survival situation vs you and yours, no matter how "nice" you are, I'm going with mine.

As for the "masses"? This isn't late 18th century France or early 20th century Russia. We live in a day where a one single soldier/law enforcement person can kill thousands of masses all by himself....

I'm not an idealist. I live in REALITY. I KNOW the human condition and rather than live in fog of what I wish was true, I simply accept the cold, hard, cruel REALITY of what we are. And we are NOT that far removed from our brethren in the animal kingdom, as much as we wish we were...

Without a note of sarcasm, I appreciate your frankness.

But you know reality doesn't have to be "nature red in tooth and claw". We - collectively - make the reality we share. In my country no-one is denied care because of an inability to pay - and I don't mean some poor bastard dragging himself into the ER with an axe in his head, I mean someone who just needs to go to the doctor. And it's done without a big impost. 1.5% to 2% of your taxable income. That's it. We don't sit around congratulating ourselves on being kind to everyone, we're just bloody glad that we're in it

 

[Vintij]

I care about the people I know. I don't care a whit about you, your children or anyone else you know. I take care of my family and my personal friends. And I choose my friends based on the strength of their character. I care about those.

I don't give a damn about yours, they are not my problem.

Now that's not something you usually will get anyone to admit to. But when push comes to shove, when it comes to me and mine in a survival situation vs you and yours, no matter how "nice" you are, I'm going with mine.

As for the "masses"? This isn't late 18th century France or early 20th century Russia. We live in a day where a one single soldier/law enforcement person can kill thousands of masses all by himself....

I'm not an idealist. I live in REALITY. I KNOW the human condition and rather than live in fog of what I wish was true, I simply accept the cold, hard, cruel REALITY of what we are. And we are NOT that far removed from our brethren in the animal kingdom, as much as we wish we were...

Thats fine, your free to care about whoever you want. I am not one to tell you what to believe or who to care about. You do what you have to do. Something to remember though..............

If it wasnt for people who CARED about others equally as they do about themselves, you would not be here today chatting online making a clear departure from common sense.

So enjoy yourself, and your family. While the rest of the country continues to fund and donate money for advance medical research that covers your children and your wife, the instruments invented by selfless people to help selfish people, continue to basque in your ignorance while the rest of the country donates millions of private dollars to schools that educated you AND your children. Continue your self righteous rants about loving only those you associate with, while the rest of the country volunteers to clean your streets, volunteers to run your election booths, volunteers to protect your family from foreign attacks! Continue to walk tall while we build statues and memorials for the millions of strangers who VOLUNTARILY died to protect your amendment rights of free speech, your right to go out and vote on the 4th, your right to own a gun, your right to worship any crackpot religion you want, your right to buy and own land. Continue along as chinese workers slave away on 4 cents a day to fabricate your computers, your cars, your clothes your childrens toys........and ship them to America at a price that YOU can afford.

Continue along not giving a shit about the world, so the world can give EVERYTHING for your freedoms and your quality of life.



If humans are going to become extinct, we dont need more people like you to speed the process. I really hope your family is not as useless as you are.

 

[zadie be]

Your sarcasim is funny. Life does suck! I too am tired of how the country is going and how we will soon be all killed anyway. We will pull out of Iraq due to pressure because of the defense budget and the world will say look at those sissies see them run. They will drop a bomb on us so relax. Do not throw in your towel Obama will do it for you just wait a couple of weeks your problem will be solved.

 

[Diuretic]

Your sarcasim is funny. Life does suck! I too am tired of how the country is going and how we will soon be all killed anyway. We will pull out of Iraq due to pressure because of the defense budget and the world will say look at those sissies see them run. They will drop a bomb on us so relax. Do not throw in your towel Obama will do it for you just wait a couple of weeks your problem will be solved.

You obviously weren't around during the Cuban missile crisis. It was pretty worrying for a 12 year old kid to be told, "if the public address system tells you to leave the school and go home immediately then do so without delay" (or words to that effect).

Obama will be your saviour, just wait and see

 

[editec]

Well it's a cinche that we're not going to solve society's problems on these boards.

But they do serve a purpose in our lives.

REALITY TESTING.

People need to know that they are not the ONLY ones who think this nation is living a lie. We are social creatures, after all. Depsite the mythos of the rugged individual, we are basically social creatures.

I've learned things from folks here and I've changed some fundmental attitudes I've had, too, thanks to my years of talking to people I did NOT agree with these board.

I learned a LOT from people who basically think I'm a commie.

And if they learned nothing from me? that's their loss.

Education isn't about making people know everything immediately.

Mostly it's about planting seeds such that when people are ready, those ideas and concepts you planted can grow.

the battle between the control freaks and the lovers of freedom will ALWAYS be with us.

No matter what kind of government we have, or what kind of economy we practice, that is essance of humankind.

It's very depressing sometimes, I'll admit.

But that's life, folks.

As my great Grandma Blitz (who listened to the Gettysberg address as a child) used to like to remind her children and grandchildren and great grandchildren:

It's a great life...if you don't weaken.​

 

[sparky]

i have to concere Editec

socio-politico issues are always a tug of war predicated on elemental human nature, as much as intrical subject knowledge

so it becomes the eternal struggle...

 

[Gunny]

After posting a few things to the forum I am thinking about throwing in the towel. I was a Political science / econ double major in school and an avid debater so I was into the whole politics thing. After school I drifted away from politics and focused on my family and career development (my wife hates politics).

I started paying attention again after 9/11, as I was living in NY at the time it was hard to ignore. As time wore on and we managed to squander all of the good will we had garnered in the world frustration tuned me away from politics again.

With the pending elections and the market crash I became interested in political discourse again so this forum was an obvious place to turn. The difficulty in trying to talk people into voting for their own best interest is so exhausting, especially when I vote consistently against my own interest for the sake of the nation. Here are some of the things that have just worn me down:

Abortion
I am past the stage in my life where this would be an issue for my wife and I and I fully intend to have our family doctor prescribe birth control to my daughter when she enters puberty, I will also be sure to provide my son with discreet access to condoms at a young age. It will not impact my family if the Right eliminate legal abortion and I don’t see them eliminating birth control in the near future. Same goes for sex education. My children will get clinical lectures on the subject from the time they are about 6 so why care if it is banned from public school, besides with the cuts to social programs I won’t be paying to support all those teen mothers.

Taxes
Why do I support candidates that will raise my taxes? As I move into a life stage where I can benefit from the SSA cap, the Cap Gains rate on dividends, mortgage deductions, education tax credits and the upper income tax brackets it does not make any sense for me to support Obama. 8 out of 10 Americans don’t want to tax the wealthy as they will not want to be taxed when they become wealthy, even though the odds say that they will never reach that level. Why should I want to dispel that myth?

National Debt
Why do I care, I can just invest in foreign markets and protect my savings from the ever deflating value of the dollar and as all my debt is fixed, higher interest rates are beneficial to me. Besides, if the domestic financial industry collapses we will just bail it out again.

Defense
It’s a volunteer army so my kids won’t be forced to go to war and shares of United Defense and Boeing are on the rise, and would really take off if we just eliminated all those labor unions.

Religion
If it becomes a requirement I suppose I could give up my Sundays to the local Anglican parish

Guns
Don’t really care one way or the other, maybe I should get armed just in case society does break down.

Social Security
I have a good defined benefit plan, an SERP and a good 401(k); I will not need the SSA so why should I pay for them.

Medicare
My SERP provides retiree health benefits so this isn’t my problem either.

Medicaid
I have health insurance, why should I care if poor kids get any healthcare at all.

Education
My wife is a SHAM so we could home school or pay for private school. As the money I spend on public schools does not benefit me directly, I should be against the whole concept of public education.

Outsourcing:
My position will not be outsourced so why should I care?

Organized Labor:
Why should I care if the US labor movement tanks? I am just tired of trying to convince bus drivers that they would not make $80K per year without a union. If they want to make $11 per hour, I am not going to try and stop them.

Guilt:
Why should I feel any guilt in helping people take maximum financial advantage from the tax “loopholes” the wealthy bake into the tax code? To save a lot of time and trouble we could just not tax capital gains and then the wealthy could really spur investment and completely avoid taxation. I can stop debating internally about if it’s right or wrong to get an $11m payment for a CFO who helped drive his company into the ground.

It’s just so much easier to stop fighting and accept that people do not act rationally so there is no point in arguing with them.

Do you listen to yourself? Talk about elitist. People won't just drop everything they believe and take up what you tell them because YOU say it's in their own best interest, so you're going to pick up and go home (leave the ball, it's MINE)?

Need me to call you a wah-mbulance for a ride?

Just a thought, but perhaps you should try listening instead of just the knowing part? Tends to make others more receptive to your ideas.

FWIW, I haven't yet seen anything from you that I consider in MY best interest. Just what you believe is yours.

 

[Diuretic]

Do you listen to yourself? Talk about elitist. People won't just drop everything they believe and take up what you tell them because YOU say it's in their own best interest, so you're going to pick up and go home (leave the ball, it's MINE)?

Need me to call you a wah-mbulance for a ride?

Just a thought, but perhaps you should try listening instead of just the knowing part? Tends to make others more receptive to your ideas.

FWIW, I haven't yet seen anything from you that I consider in MY best interest. Just what you believe is yours.

If someone reads it, considers it and tells someone else that is sufficient. That's how change happens. We all can have a personal paradigm shift.

 

[editec]

Tough love Gunny strikes again.

Hey we all have our moments of doubt in faith, don't we?

Turbo's an interesting poster perplexed by how people can so seriously miss his point.

Happens to the best of us, doesn't it?

 

[GigiBowman]

Yes, that's the fundamental nature of the human condition.

As it is, the planet has reached maximum capacity for human population. At current rates of population growth we should fully expect over one BILLION people to die of famine and disease int he next 10 years. And there is NOTHING WRONG with that. It is nature doing what nature does....

You know, nature == God

Well, there's always Eugenics lol
Future Generations

 

[Diuretic]

Well, there's always Eugenics lol
Future Generations

Ewww, it was tried before.

 

[editec]

So if another great depression happens, and many people lose jobs....unable to pay bills, find another job and pay healthcare......they should all just die? Nice, did you get your morals from the bible? Sounds like it.

IF?

IF?!

IF?!!!?

Didn't we just lean that 97,000 people lost their jobs last MONTH?!

They are already in a depression.

We are alreay in the first phase of a depression, sport.

Doesn't matter what the stockmarket is telling us.

The disconnect between the market and the nation has been a reality my entire lifetime.

 

[TheFreeAmerican]

before you throw in the towel, think about this poem.

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

Eventually chief they will come for you no matter how good you got it, and the ones that don't have it so well will not be around to save your ass.

One more quote, this is from the bible and the movie pulp fiction.

Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

 

[Care4all]

After posting a few things to the forum I am thinking about throwing in the towel. I was a Political science / econ double major in school and an avid debater so I was into the whole politics thing. After school I drifted away from politics and focused on my family and career development (my wife hates politics).

I started paying attention again after 9/11, as I was living in NY at the time it was hard to ignore. As time wore on and we managed to squander all of the good will we had garnered in the world frustration tuned me away from politics again.

With the pending elections and the market crash I became interested in political discourse again so this forum was an obvious place to turn. The difficulty in trying to talk people into voting for their own best interest is so exhausting, especially when I vote consistently against my own interest for the sake of the nation. Here are some of the things that have just worn me down:

Abortion
I am past the stage in my life where this would be an issue for my wife and I and I fully intend to have our family doctor prescribe birth control to my daughter when she enters puberty, I will also be sure to provide my son with discreet access to condoms at a young age. It will not impact my family if the Right eliminate legal abortion and I don’t see them eliminating birth control in the near future. Same goes for sex education. My children will get clinical lectures on the subject from the time they are about 6 so why care if it is banned from public school, besides with the cuts to social programs I won’t be paying to support all those teen mothers.

Taxes
Why do I support candidates that will raise my taxes? As I move into a life stage where I can benefit from the SSA cap, the Cap Gains rate on dividends, mortgage deductions, education tax credits and the upper income tax brackets it does not make any sense for me to support Obama. 8 out of 10 Americans don’t want to tax the wealthy as they will not want to be taxed when they become wealthy, even though the odds say that they will never reach that level. Why should I want to dispel that myth?

National Debt
Why do I care, I can just invest in foreign markets and protect my savings from the ever deflating value of the dollar and as all my debt is fixed, higher interest rates are beneficial to me. Besides, if the domestic financial industry collapses we will just bail it out again.

Defense
It’s a volunteer army so my kids won’t be forced to go to war and shares of United Defense and Boeing are on the rise, and would really take off if we just eliminated all those labor unions.

Religion
If it becomes a requirement I suppose I could give up my Sundays to the local Anglican parish

Guns
Don’t really care one way or the other, maybe I should get armed just in case society does break down.

Social Security
I have a good defined benefit plan, an SERP and a good 401(k); I will not need the SSA so why should I pay for them.

Medicare
My SERP provides retiree health benefits so this isn’t my problem either.

Medicaid
I have health insurance, why should I care if poor kids get any healthcare at all.

Education
My wife is a SHAM so we could home school or pay for private school. As the money I spend on public schools does not benefit me directly, I should be against the whole concept of public education.

Outsourcing:
My position will not be outsourced so why should I care?

Organized Labor:
Why should I care if the US labor movement tanks? I am just tired of trying to convince bus drivers that they would not make $80K per year without a union. If they want to make $11 per hour, I am not going to try and stop them.

Guilt:
Why should I feel any guilt in helping people take maximum financial advantage from the tax “loopholes” the wealthy bake into the tax code? To save a lot of time and trouble we could just not tax capital gains and then the wealthy could really spur investment and completely avoid taxation. I can stop debating internally about if it’s right or wrong to get an $11m payment for a CFO who helped drive his company into the ground.

It’s just so much easier to stop fighting and accept that people do not act rationally so there is no point in arguing with them.

so, would you understand why most people, younger in age with less established assets and income, would TOTALLY disagree with you on your financial stances?

Care

 

[Mr. President]

before you throw in the towel, think about this poem.

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

Eventually chief they will come for you no matter how good you got it, and the ones that don't have it so well will not be around to save your ass.

That may single handedly be the dumbest poem I have ever read.

 

[TheFreeAmerican]

That may single handedly be the dumbest poem I have ever read.

Since I didn't write it I can't be insulted. However you could explain why you think it's so dumb, I would love to hear an opinion from a military point of view.

 

[Turboswede]

Well, there's always Eugenics lol
Future Generations

Gigi, You ROCK!

Eugenics

 

[Mr. President]

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.

"I was not a communist I was sent to another country and delivered people from the oppression of a communist government." - Soldier



Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.

"I protected the constitution and the right of the individual" - Soldier



Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.

"I was deployed again and with the blood of my brothers liberated and entire continent not only a religion." - Soldier


And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.


"I spoke for myself, knowing that in all that I have accomplished self preservation was not only what I would fight for but die for." - Soldier