Three years of autism/schizophrenia research destroyed by

[eots]

Is Schizophrenia Really a Brain Disease?
By Paris Williams, PhD

'In spite of over a hundred years of research and many billions of dollars spent, we still have no clear evidence that schizophrenia and other related psychotic disorders are the result of a diseased brain."

Is Schizophrenia Really a Brain Disease? | Brain Blogger

 

[Dajjal]

Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia.

How could they do this when there is zero evidence of schizophrenia or autism being genetic diseases ?

I thought there was some genetic evidence for schizophrenia. I know for a fact there is a biochemic factor, as I have tried taking drugs and not taking drugs for schizophrenia many times over the last fifty years that I have had the condition. The older generation of drugs were just knock out drops that dampened down all brain activity, but the latest drugs like abilify which I take are very effective. They target the chemicals like dopamine that are in short supply in schizophrenics causing abnormal brain activity.

What I want to know is how can you tell anything about human schizophrenia from a mouse.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I respectfully disagree. Yes, those animals ARE tortured. Daily. Just to "see what happens". Does it save human lives? Sometimes. But how many animals have to die to find a cure? They want to experiment..I'm with Noomi. Let them use their own bodies.

Have you ever been in a scientific lab?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That may be true, but is it okay to torture animals in order to do that - and keep in mind that it takes years, even decades, for them to find a drug that works. That's thousands of dead animals for a drug that hasn't even been through human trials yet!

The animals are not tortured. If you want torture think of how those animals who were getting treated for those conditions are doing now that they have been denied the drugs they need to make their lives better. Every single one of the terrorists responsible for this crime should be forced to take the places of the animals they have condemned to a slow an painful death.

Injecting a lab rat or bunny with a disease IS torturing them. You cause them pain, and then you cause them more pain when you inject them wit more drugs to try and 'cure' the disease you infected them with!

These lab rats are paralysed, they are electrocuted, they are not seen as animals by these people, rather, as objects.

And the people who do the testing, who develop these drugs - do they actually take part in the human trials? Or are they happy to allow someone else to risk their life/health?

The article already stated that some of the rats that were saved were mutated! That is the result of what these 'people' have done to them - made them mutants! How the hell can anyone be okay with that?

The simplest way to explain this is that these rats were born with the disease, and the researchers are trying to cure them.

 

[eots]

Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia.

How could they do this when there is zero evidence of schizophrenia or autism being genetic diseases ?

I thought there was some genetic evidence for schizophrenia.

None

I know for a fact there is a biochemic factor

No you dont..

, as I have tried taking drugs and not taking drugs for schizophrenia many times over the last fifty years that I have had the condition. The older generation of drugs were just knock out drops that dampened down all brain activity, but the latest drugs like abilify which I take are very effective.
They target the chemicals like dopamine that are in short supply in schizophrenics causing abnormal brain activity.

Reuters Health) - Studies of schizophrenia drugs are increasingly finding lesser effects because more patients are responding to drug-free placebos used for comparison, according to a new United States government study.

Rising placebo response seen in schizophrenia trials | Reuters

What I want to know is how can you tell anything about human schizophrenia from a mouse.

They cant..if abilify brings you relief thats great but it is not proof of the cause and psychiatrist should really stop pretending it is

 

[Dajjal]

I can assure you I am not experiencing some kind of placebo effect from taking abilify. It really works and I am stable on it. I have been on it for five years and I stopped taking it twice, only to discover I suffered a lot of stress a few weeks after stopping it. I now recommed abilify to anyone with schizophrenia. What is more I have been able to give up alcohol for the last 7 months.

 

[Montrovant]

I'll be bluntly honest about this.

Fuck the rats. Fuck the bunnies. I don't care if they kill them in job lots. I don't care if huge farms of rats and bunnies are grown, tested on and killed in the search for cures to human diseases. Humans > rodents.

To be clear : this does NOT mean researchers should be able to work without standards. Treating the animals as well as they can while still doing their research is perfectly reasonable. However, at least for now, animal testing is (as far as I know) a necessary component of a lot of research.

As to the completely asinine idea that researchers need to test themselves.....if they did that, they would just need other researchers to be available to study the affects of whatever they are doing. And then you would want THOSE researchers to test themselves...etc. etc. Someone needs to be able to objectively record and analyze results without any lessening of skills due to testing on themselves. This whole line of thinking seems to be based on the idea that researchers are intentionally inflicting pain for the fun of it.

As far as why the incident in the OP isn't getting media attention, could it be because it involved no deaths and took place in Italy?

 

[Colin]

I wonder how many of those protesting the use of animals in drug development would turn down treatment with drugs when they are ill?

 

[Gracie]

I respectfully disagree. Yes, those animals ARE tortured. Daily. Just to "see what happens". Does it save human lives? Sometimes. But how many animals have to die to find a cure? They want to experiment..I'm with Noomi. Let them use their own bodies.

what a fucking loon you are.

We'll see how you feel about animal experimentation when your child is dying of cancer.

Think what you want. I'd rather be a loon than an asshole.
I have/had breast cancer. It has only been 4 months or so, since my diagnosis. I would rather die from BC than have another creature die FOR me for experiements.

We can't all live forever, ya know.

 

[Gracie]

I wonder how many of those protesting the use of animals in drug development would turn down treatment with drugs when they are ill?

Raises hand. Me. That's one so far.

 

[Gracie]

I respectfully disagree. Yes, those animals ARE tortured. Daily. Just to "see what happens". Does it save human lives? Sometimes. But how many animals have to die to find a cure? They want to experiment..I'm with Noomi. Let them use their own bodies.

Have you ever been in a scientific lab?

No. But I have seen pics of them. Beagles are their fav critter to experiment on. Also, as a kid, before restrictions were in place of what could be shown on tv and what couldn't, I saw a program where a newborn kitten was....well. Never mind. It horrifies me to dredge up that memory.

I am against animal testing. For any reason. Some are just going to have to agree to disagree with my mindset on this subject. If people here are for it..fine. Who am I to judge your beliefs? I expect the same courtesty.

 

[bripat9643]

I respectfully disagree. Yes, those animals ARE tortured. Daily. Just to "see what happens". Does it save human lives? Sometimes. But how many animals have to die to find a cure? They want to experiment..I'm with Noomi. Let them use their own bodies.

Have you ever been in a scientific lab?

No. But I have seen pics of them. Beagles are their fav critter to experiment on. Also, as a kid, before restrictions were in place of what could be shown on tv and what couldn't, I saw a program where a newborn kitten was....well. Never mind. It horrifies me to dredge up that memory.

I am against animal testing. For any reason. Some are just going to have to agree to disagree with my mindset on this subject. If people here are for it..fine. Who am I to judge your beliefs? I expect the same courtesty.

If your against animal testing then you shouldn't use any cosmetics or anything found in the pharmacy/bath section of your grocery store. The FDA requires every one of these products to be tested on animals before they can be sold to humans.

 

[Gracie]

Have you ever been in a scientific lab?

No. But I have seen pics of them. Beagles are their fav critter to experiment on. Also, as a kid, before restrictions were in place of what could be shown on tv and what couldn't, I saw a program where a newborn kitten was....well. Never mind. It horrifies me to dredge up that memory.

I am against animal testing. For any reason. Some are just going to have to agree to disagree with my mindset on this subject. If people here are for it..fine. Who am I to judge your beliefs? I expect the same courtesty.

If your against animal testing then you shouldn't use any cosmetics or anything found in the pharmacy/bath section of your grocery store. The FDA requires every one of these products to be tested on animals before they can be sold to humans.

See, this is where so much angst happens on message boards. We only know what we read about each individual. So, with that in mind and before I leave this sad thread for good (it upsets me), I will inform you that I don't wear cosmetics, nor use soaps. I use apple cider vinegar. I do use lotions. And no, the FDA does NOT require products to be tested on animals. Where did you come up with that idea??? Everything I use on my body says Not Animal Tested.

Ok and alrighty then!! Y'all continue to discuss. I'd rather concentrate on other subjects other than this one. So....see y'all in the hallways passing from forum to forum. This one...I ain't coming back.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

These people torture the crap out of animals, infecting them with diseases, crippling them, keeping them in cages and then killing them when they have served a purpose.

I don't condone what the animal rights freaks did, but I am happy those animals were released from the confines of some lab.

Perhaps Miss Matteoli can infect herself with a deadly disease, or give herself autism or something else?

"These people" save lives and cure diseases.

So the fuck what? It doesn't justify cruelty to animals. We're all gonna die anyone, people need to fucking accept that fact.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Have you ever been in a scientific lab?

No. But I have seen pics of them. Beagles are their fav critter to experiment on. Also, as a kid, before restrictions were in place of what could be shown on tv and what couldn't, I saw a program where a newborn kitten was....well. Never mind. It horrifies me to dredge up that memory.

I am against animal testing. For any reason. Some are just going to have to agree to disagree with my mindset on this subject. If people here are for it..fine. Who am I to judge your beliefs? I expect the same courtesty.

If your against animal testing then you shouldn't use any cosmetics or anything found in the pharmacy/bath section of your grocery store. The FDA requires every one of these products to be tested on animals before they can be sold to humans.

That's bullshit. The FDA has no such requirement.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

I respectfully disagree. Yes, those animals ARE tortured. Daily. Just to "see what happens". Does it save human lives? Sometimes. But how many animals have to die to find a cure? They want to experiment..I'm with Noomi. Let them use their own bodies.

That's just propaganda. Animals aren't tortured and nothing is done "just to see what happens". Protocols are reviewed by teams of scientists before any grants are awarded to determine their worth and rules about treatment and care have become increasingly stringent over the years. Animal rights activists have been instrumental in much of that, but to suggest that all animal experimentation should be stopped would basically halt all further progress in the prevention and cure of disease.

Bullshit. Experiment on humans. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to participate in clinical trials, either for money or be cause they're terminal anyway.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

animal rights activists.

And no news about it. Amazing. The true anti-science bloc: progressive nutbags:

"
Activists occupied an animal facility at the University of Milan, Italy, at the weekend, releasing mice and rabbits and mixing up cage labels to confuse experimental protocols. Researchers at the university say that it will take years to recover their work.
Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia."

"
Michela Matteoli, a neurobiologist who works on autism and other disorders and lost most of her own research in the attack, says that she found some research students crying in the disrupted facility on Monday morning.
“It will take three people at least a year to build up the colonies we had of mouse models of different psychiatric diseases,” she says."

"...animal-rights and environmental extremists have proven to be be capable of lots of damage and widespread, documented criminal activity. Yet they rarely get the press, say, a picture of a rude sign at a Tea Party rally might get. Maybe our more mainstream animal-rights friends could muster some loud denunciations of such tactics to prevent further losses of valuable research. "

Animal-rights activists wreak havoc in Milan laboratory : Nature News & Comment
Animal-rights activists trash years of autism research in Milan lab raid « Hot Air

Good. I'm glad they did it. And I hope they keep doing it. They are heroes. Some day in the future, Mankind will look back with horror to know that we attempted to gain knowledge in such crude, horrific, barbaric ways. People 200 years from now will be saying...can you believe they did THAT?

 

[April]

My thoughts on this are mixed.
Chemotherapy can and will make a person even more ill than the actual cancer they were dealt with. After my initial diagnoses (which was deemed poor) with colon cancer, I ended up having extensive surgery to remove all the cancer from my body..and NOT just my colon. During my recovery I was given a choice of either going through with chemo or not. I chose to do so because I was a young mother and wife at the age of 26. I tried for my family. When the chemo made me feel more sick than having the cancer inside of me, I opted to smoke pot after I went for my weekly chemo treatments...which, helped me tremendously.
Six months later it was discovered that the cancer had spread in spite of the chemo. I had another choice to make, to go through a stronger more agressive type of chemo or go off the chemo for the next six months in order to qualify for a clinical trial at a local cancer research center that was conducting a type of treatment that was supposed to not make the patients undergoing treatment so ill. I went off the chemo so I could qualify for the clinical trial.
Six months later, just before 9-11-01, I began plans to join the trial. When it was discovered that the large tumor that had been deemed 'inoperable' seemed to have disappeared, I no longer needed to take the trip a few cities away for the trial.
My point, I would have gone through with the trial...I had that option. I needed to survive for my family. If it wern't for previous research and testing, I would NOT have been offered that option and would have been sent on my way to die.
Although I do not condone the mistreatment of lab animals, there ARE ways to treat these animal humanely without causing them to suffer needlessly AND continue the testing to better the lives of humans who have been hit with a incurable illness..including mental.
Cancer still looms for me...six years later I was hit yet again with a secondary cancer.
Another story for another time...

 

[Montrovant]

animal rights activists.

And no news about it. Amazing. The true anti-science bloc: progressive nutbags:

"
Activists occupied an animal facility at the University of Milan, Italy, at the weekend, releasing mice and rabbits and mixing up cage labels to confuse experimental protocols. Researchers at the university say that it will take years to recover their work.
Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia."

"
Michela Matteoli, a neurobiologist who works on autism and other disorders and lost most of her own research in the attack, says that she found some research students crying in the disrupted facility on Monday morning.
“It will take three people at least a year to build up the colonies we had of mouse models of different psychiatric diseases,” she says."

"...animal-rights and environmental extremists have proven to be be capable of lots of damage and widespread, documented criminal activity. Yet they rarely get the press, say, a picture of a rude sign at a Tea Party rally might get. Maybe our more mainstream animal-rights friends could muster some loud denunciations of such tactics to prevent further losses of valuable research. "

Animal-rights activists wreak havoc in Milan laboratory : Nature News & Comment
Animal-rights activists trash years of autism research in Milan lab raid « Hot Air

Good. I'm glad they did it. And I hope they keep doing it. They are heroes. Some day in the future, Mankind will look back with horror to know that we attempted to gain knowledge in such crude, horrific, barbaric ways. People 200 years from now will be saying...can you believe they did THAT?

I doubt animal testing will have ended in 200 years. It may be much less, as new technologies allow us to move to other methods, but there will likely be some testing that requires a live subject.

I also doubt people will look back in horror, as they will probably be able to see that testing on animals was the only way to gain the knowledge we were looking for in many cases. If that changes in the future, it doesn't change that it's true now and has been in the past.

And in 200 years, a rat will still be a rat.

 

[gallantwarrior]

How could they do this when there is zero evidence of schizophrenia or autism being genetic diseases ?

None



No you dont..




Reuters Health) - Studies of schizophrenia drugs are increasingly finding lesser effects because more patients are responding to drug-free placebos used for comparison, according to a new United States government study.

Rising placebo response seen in schizophrenia trials | Reuters

What I want to know is how can you tell anything about human schizophrenia from a mouse.

They cant..if abilify brings you relief thats great but it is not proof of the cause and psychiatrist should really stop pretending it is

First highlight: it really is in their mind. That explains why they can be "cured" by sugar pills.
Second highlight: That ain't gonna hoppen because then they'd be out of a job.