This Would Be Too Cool!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Annie, Jul 3, 2004.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I'd watch the Convention if this happens, there are embedded links:

    http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/001937.php

    July 02, 2004
    Deaniacs Threaten Floor Fight
    Supporters of Howard Dean have launched a campaign to get their favorite candidate on the Democratic ticket as John Kerry's VP, and sent a message to the presumptive nominee -- pick our man or watch your unity festival dissolve into a floor fight:

    The National Draft Dean for VP Committee has not contacted either Dean or Kerry about its efforts, but it expects to approach the former Vermont governor before Democrats gather in Boston for the convention July 26.
    "Howard Dean shifts the dynamics of the race," said Michael Meurer, co-chairman of the draft committee, who argued that Dean on the ticket would stop progressives from voting for independent candidate Ralph Nader. Dean has shown up on few, if any, lists of serious contenders for the vice presidential nomination. Members of the draft committee say they believe their efforts to persuade Kerry through petitions to choose Dean will prove futile.

    So they came up with the idea of forcing a vote at the convention. "We're gearing up for and we're resigned to a floor fight," Meurer said.

    At least 300 delegates have to sign a petition to put such a question before the convention; organizers claim they've already got 350 firm commitments from delegates to sign on and indications of support from another 150.


    Once again, the Deaniacs threaten to undo the Democrats. Howard Dean sounded a discouraging note, at least publicly. Dean said that he "trust him to pick a vice-presidential nominee that will best serve the Democratic Party and the country," and that he fully supported whoever Kerry chooses. Dean has kept a low profile since flaming out at the beginning of the primaries, trying to allow Kerry to attract as much attention as possible; in other words, he shifted from maverick outsider to team player, up to now.

    However, Kerry's inability to gain traction has clearly worried some Democrats, especially those who remember the Dean days somewhat more fondly now that time has passed. The top candidates for the VP slot do not promise much more magic on the stump, either; Edwards comes closest, but he's also the least experienced and has even less executive credentials than Kerry. Gephardt and Vilsack promise even less excitement at the convention than Kerry, while Hillary probably brings too much excitement -- for Bill, and the last thing Kerry needs at the moment is to get outshined by the Big Me. Deaniacs want that excitement, that good feeling back, and if they don't get it, they may wreck the nominating party and eliminate the big bounce Kerry needs coming out of it.

    The problem for Kerry is that it puts him squarely in the middle once more. In order for the Senate's most liberal member to attract the important swing voters, Kerry has to select a centrist. However, picking a centrist will, as is obvious now, alienate the Deaniacs who energized the early primaries for the Democrats. Those voters may well wind up giving Nader a very long look, and at the least will be less than fully motivated for the remainder of the campaign season.

    The other danger for the Kerry campaign will arise if they start believing their own press releases and operate from the assumption that Kerry actually is a centrist. If that is the case, then Dean may wind up on the ticket -- which will combine the least effective campaigners in the party on a ticket that will skew hard left, the wrong direction entirely. A Kerry ticket that runs further to the left with Dean will bring about another Mondale or McGovern fiasco. And with the Deaniacs threatening floor fights, we may wind up seeing not just 1972 but 1968 all over again.

    Maybe the networks will change their mind and cover the conventions this year. Unless, of course, Katie Couric has a croquet match on NBC instead.

    Posted by Captain Ed at July 2, 2004 06:26 PM
     
  2. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    i doubt they'd do it.

    i'll give dean this... he's really shown he's serious about rejuvanating the democratic party by forcing it to look to its left before it jumps to the center

    hopefully this means it takes the best elements of the left with it when it moves to the center

    there is no way dean will get on the ticket, and i doubt he wants it. he's happy being the maverick of the democrats, even if he is acting as a team player to get kerry elected

    and there are way too many groups that were voting for bush or were strongly GOP that are looking favorable or possible to the dems, to move to dean would kill the dem's chances of getting these folks
     
  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    And who would these be, praytell?
    and these?

     
  4. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    the progressive christian movement (folks led by john podesta), a religious movement to help enact social change and social justice...
    they have a few bad ideas like everybody, but by and by, they're good for the country and good for the dems to help prove the christian right ain't the majority

    the sensible environmentalists... these are folks who realize there are some battles not to be fought, some species can't be saved, some land can't stay development free... they are the best the environmental movement in this country has, and the reflection of the majority of american's views on the environment

    liberal scientists in god knows how many fields... these are folks who press on for further and further development in science, reminding us all that science is important... it helps this crowd has increasingly become more vocal about keeping america competitive in the field of science.

    liberal internationalists... these are the liberals who privately backed bush on the war, and sometimes publicly. they came of age especially during the bosnia debacle, seeing that non-violence and war only in defense of America was not all that America should have as options in dealing with genocidal dictators in the world.

    there are a few more, but they beat out:

    conspiracy theorists

    anti-war (all the time) folks

    anti-globalization (anti-everything, angst ridden folks)

    communists/socialists
     
  5. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    rural voters, Arabs, Latinos (especially Cubans in s. florida and those in Arizona), social conservatives with centrist/liberal international viewpoints, Asians, young people, business owners (the tech industry, once staunchly pro-bush in 2000, looks very pro-kerry or at least anti-bush in 2004)

    there are a few others i believe also
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    In response to your last 2 posts, I don't see John Podesta as left wing of the democratic party, more centrist than most. The others too, are not left, so I'm unsure what you mean. Lord knows as far as enviormentalist groups go, I'm sure you don't mean the eco-terrorists? If that is whom you're referring to, the dems are in worse shape than I thought.


    I don't think Bush ever had the tech vote, don't know where you'd get that idea. Perhaps because of Microsoft case, but Gates certainly didn't want Bush elected, he's all about 'global'. The types of people that tech attracted are not you're normal entrepreurs, who would tend to GOP.

    Arabs too insignificant, TG to make a difference. Cubans have been dicey for awhile now, but they are going to want to know what Kerry would do and he's been friendly with Castro, so I wouldn't be too sure on that one.

    Asians don't 'block vote' proven over and over, so again, I'm unsure where you get that.
     
  7. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    well podesta has taken up a leadership mantle with the left progressive movement

    the environmentalists i'm talking about are the ones who make sense, they often have liberal views in addition to the "liberal views" they're castigated for having by their opponents, despite their common sense environmental causes

    arabs are what, 3 to 4 million people if not more, they voted for bush in 2000, they're voting for kerry more than likely in 2004 and they're almost all in key battleground states like pennsylvania, michigan, ohio and florida

    asians don't bloc vote, but they can help kerry in places like washington, oregon, arizona if he gets more votes from them

    cubans are unhappy with jeb and george, not only on castro but an increasing number of the younger cubans are going democratic anyway.

    business vote in general is going to lean more towards kerry (perhaps not a majority but more than gore) this year, because of the economy and unhappiness with bush (especially in battleground states)
     
  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    So you think Kerry will win. As a given, what do you see him doing? Teach me. ;)
     
  9. NATO AIR
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    i don't think he'll win

    i just think he'll get these votes and more

    i just don't think his strategy of lay-low will work, because i think iraq is going to get better and i think bush will somehow start winning points in other places

    i'm just saying, i hope the democratic party continues to move to the center after this election (instead of to the left like michael moore and dean would love, even though dean was a fairly centrist governor in vermont) and that it takes these parts of the left with it to the center... that way it doesn't lose its soul and it doesn't lose some of its best ideas and arguments

    i thought edwards was a better idea for dems, simply because his message works better than kerry's. i've seen him in action while i was on leave and my god, he had a GOP audience eating out of his hands, he was scoring points off Bush in all the right places, without resorting to excessive demonization or conspiracy theories... he would have kept the dems from straying to the left and brought them to the center. edwards was also not so excessively negative or brooding, he was hopeful and optimistic, in his eyes, america was good but could be better, our place in the world was in trouble but we would figure a way out, we had the power to make the change, etc etc

    kerry's like the media right now, all negative and a bit of fake, strained positivity.
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Well I'm glad to hear he won't win! LOL :p:

    You have more faith than I that the dems will move to the center. I'd say you'd have a better chance at getting Republicans a bit more green. (although I don't know many who aren't on things like paying for river and lake cleanup, recycling, keeping open land, etc.) Just not for saving a snail dart that never existed, by refusing permits to build on private property.
     

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