*This Women Didn't Deserve This: Gifford*

Nobody has forgotten the people who died and their families, Jimmy. Nice try at demonizing the left, though.

I wish just ONE of you on the right would say "I hope we will be more civil in future" or "I am so sorry this happened".

I wish just ONE of you leftists would get off your "blaming the right" kick long enough to notice that, while the media and leftist pundits were rushing to try to link the shooting to Sarah Palin, MANY people on the right were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolences to the victims and their families.

But no, all you can do is look for reasons why the conservatives are to blame, free speech must be immediately suppressed, and THEN getting outraged because your targets dare to defend themselves against your attacks.

Hypocrisy, thy name is, has been, and continues to be The Left.
 
There she is laying in the hospital holding onto life, while the liberal media drags her through the mud, using her shooting as a political football, stomping all over her while she clings to life, smashing her face into mud holes as they constantly attack the Republicans over her peril, her life is in the balance, and her party is on the war path using her limp body as a pole to ram the doors at the gates of the Republican Party, smashing her limp head into the Republican Castle, relentlessly hammering her head into the doors



Fortunately it looks like she may be able to tell us what she thinks when she is recovered well enough.


She did ask for a better poltical dialogue before she was shot.

I think she will likely do the same after she recovers well enough.

Will you listen to her?

I guess that would depend on what she considers "better political dialogue". Not being a leftist, I don't think "victim=infallible", so I feel no need to mindlessly do what I'm told provided the person telling me is sufficiently sympathetic.

Quite frankly, the only "uncivil" political dialogue I've seen has been Gabby's own side of the spectrum leaping to use her and the other victims as tools to advance an agenda before the bodies were even cold.
 
The interesting thing about the vid that Sallow posted....Giffords is poised and on-point. Granted, I would disagree with her vote FOR obamacare, but, she doesn't take the 'bait' the female MSNBC host dangles in front of her, early on.

She does make mention of the Palin "map", and the "crosshairs" (and although she makes no mention of DK using virtually the same "crosshairs" map), but then goes on to say that she would not speak for Sarah Palin in terms of whether or not she really thought Palin meant for the "map" to be taken as an incitement to violence.

I know I would disagree with her on a few things but, she seems to be a rather poised individual. And she equally calls out the rhetoric and actions of extremists on the left, as she notes the same of extremists on the right.

What I noticed however...
She was asked whether or not she believed Palin intended it to incite violence.
I was disturbed with her answer...saying "I can not speak for Palin" does not answer the question of her opinion.....so an answer like that is the same as saying "yes, it is quite possible Palin intended to incite violence"
Otherwise, she would asnwer "of course not, but it doesnt mean someone may take it that way"
So I am curious as to whether she truly believes it was intended by Palin to incite violence.
If she did believe that, something is serious wrong.

Um..she's laying in a hospital bed right now..

And all she was asking for was to tone down the rhetoric.

Maybe politicians could go back to using sports analogies..instead of gun analogies..to make points.

Much as it annoyed me..I now prefer that now.

Yes, because there's never any similarity between sports metaphors (not analogies; it might help our national rhetoric if people had a better command of their own mother tongue) and military metaphors. :eusa_hand:
 
At the end of the day....hypothetically speaking, if everyone became civil in their rhetoric....we still would have just as many shootings and murders as we do now.
It's just that we would have the morality police to deal with.

The last time a Representative or Senator was gunned down..was when?

Looks like the last Representative to die by assassination was Larry McDonald in 1983, preceded by Leo Ryan in 1978. The last Senator to die by assassination was Robert Kennedy in 1968.

As it happens, it appears to have become progressively rarer in our history for Congressmembers to be attacked, rather than more common. And Congressmembers in general are just less popular targets than Presidents, governors, etc.

By the way, on the subject of "how uncivil our political discourse is now compared to times past", it was apparently not uncommon at one time for Congressmembers to actually duel over political disputes. I'd say a little name-calling now is small potatoes.
 
Nothing can prevent violence altogether, Meister. But screaming hysterically at one another MAY aggravate some deranged person, and has no value.

Yes, we should all censor ourselves down to a kindergarten level on the off-chance that some psycho MIGHT be set off.

You know what Ben Franklin said about people who will trade liberty for safety, right?
 
MANY people on the right were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolences to the victims and their families.
maybe...but MOST of them were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolence for the victim Queen, Sarah Palin.
 
You know what Gabby didn't deserve.

She didn't deserve to be called a "death panel socialist" when she voted for Health Care. She didn't deserve the threats and vandalism she received after casting that vote.

Gabby was constructed as the enemy of freedom because of her congressional votes.

She didn't deserve what Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Bernie Goldberg, Mark Levine, Michael Savage and a million other wingers said about her over and over.

[Imagine the following being said in an ever louder scream, over and over] "Socialist. Death Panel. socialist. Death panel. Socialist. Death Panel. socialist. Death panel"

Over and over.

Was Jared Loughner motivated by this terminal anti-government noise machine? Nobody will ever know.

Should Gabby have been called a treasonous, death panel socialist? No.

(over and over and over)

You people are sick.

No, what's sick is you trying to use the attack on MY Representative - whose name you probably didn't even know until she got shot - to try to buffalo people into rolling over for your agenda. Don't even try to pretend your "outrage" at a few words that - again probably - you knew nothing about until you went hunting for partisan ammunition (that's right, I'm using a "violent military metaphor". Get over it) is any sort of real concern.

I didn't vote for MY Representative, nor did I particularly want her to BE my Representative, but I have more genuine concern for her as a human being in my little conservative finger than you do in your entire fatheaded leftist body.

Fuck you very much, and back away from MY injured Congresswoman, dickhead.
 
Nobody has forgotten the people who died and their families, Jimmy. Nice try at demonizing the left, though.

I wish just ONE of you on the right would say "I hope we will be more civil in future" or "I am so sorry this happened".

I wish just ONE of you leftists would get off your "blaming the right" kick long enough to notice that, while the media and leftist pundits were rushing to try to link the shooting to Sarah Palin, MANY people on the right were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolences to the victims and their families.

But no, all you can do is look for reasons why the conservatives are to blame, free speech must be immediately suppressed, and THEN getting outraged because your targets dare to defend themselves against your attacks.

Hypocrisy, thy name is, has been, and continues to be The Left.

The knee-jerk reaction was because of the constant reminder that there are militias formed, guns and ammunition stockpiled by lunatics who sincerely have as their goal the overthrow of THIS government. Please don't try to deny that. There has been a 400% increase in the number of threats against Obama from prior presidents. I can't remember if it was in this thread or some other where I said that it was MY first reaction, too: Well...someone has finally started the revolution, as promised. Hypocrisy? No. It was simple fear that this was just the beginning--based on hate and the promise to carry out threats made by the haters.
 
Sorry bout that,





Nobody has forgotten the people who died and their families, Jimmy. Nice try at demonizing the left, though.

I wish just ONE of you on the right would say "I hope we will be more civil in future" or "I am so sorry this happened".

I wish just ONE of you leftists would get off your "blaming the right" kick long enough to notice that, while the media and leftist pundits were rushing to try to link the shooting to Sarah Palin, MANY people on the right were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolences to the victims and their families.

But no, all you can do is look for reasons why the conservatives are to blame, free speech must be immediately suppressed, and THEN getting outraged because your targets dare to defend themselves against your attacks.

Hypocrisy, thy name is, has been, and continues to be The Left.

The knee-jerk reaction was because of the constant reminder that there are militias formed, guns and ammunition stockpiled by lunatics who sincerely have as their goal the overthrow of THIS government. Please don't try to deny that. There has been a 400% increase in the number of threats against Obama from prior presidents. I can't remember if it was in this thread or some other where I said that it was MY first reaction, too: Well...someone has finally started the revolution, as promised. Hypocrisy? No. It was simple fear that this was just the beginning--based on hate and the promise to carry out threats made by the haters.




1. You actually believe that?
2. I doubt there are any actual militias in America, maybe some Muslim ones, hid up somewhere, but you can bet the Feds are watching them.
3. I remember when Bush was President, the liberal media newscaster used to threaten him on national tv.
4. Do they still do that?
5. It will never cease to amaze me how rabid the liberal media is.
6. And how those who listen to it, some how reverse the story line to say its the fair and balanced media.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
 
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At the end of the day....hypothetically speaking, if everyone became civil in their rhetoric....we still would have just as many shootings and murders as we do now.
It's just that we would have the morality police to deal with.

The last time a Representative or Senator was gunned down..was when?

Looks like the last Representative to die by assassination was Larry McDonald in 1983, preceded by Leo Ryan in 1978. The last Senator to die by assassination was Robert Kennedy in 1968.

As it happens, it appears to have become progressively rarer in our history for Congressmembers to be attacked, rather than more common. And Congressmembers in general are just less popular targets than Presidents, governors, etc.

By the way, on the subject of "how uncivil our political discourse is now compared to times past", it was apparently not uncommon at one time for Congressmembers to actually duel over political disputes. I'd say a little name-calling now is small potatoes.

A "little" name-calling? While it's true that historically, some pretty awful things were said, they stood out as exceptions rather than the rule.

Teddy Roosevelt called William Taft a fathead and puzzlewit.

Harry Truman called Richard Nixon a shifty-eyed goddamned liar.

Gerald Ford remarked frequently that Carter's presidency was a disaster. That sort of comment is commonplace today.
 
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Talismen said:
The "death panels" (for lack of a better term) are real.
There will be treatments and medicines that will be denied, for whatever reason, by a panel of "authorites", for insurance policies not 'grandfathered in', which will affect patients.

Insurance companies already do that, which is one of the major reasons the health care reform bill was finally designed to rein in insurance companies rather than proposed as universal care.
 
Nobody has forgotten the people who died and their families, Jimmy. Nice try at demonizing the left, though.

I wish just ONE of you on the right would say "I hope we will be more civil in future" or "I am so sorry this happened".

I am truly sorry this happened and every day I hope and pray for more civility in our future. But I can't do it alone. Thoughts such as these need to be from all Americans across the country and that just ain't gonna happen.

I agree, masquerade, and will add that those sentiments become a commitment in the minds of everyone seeking peace. Nothing will change until.
 
The rhetoric of the left in the 60s and 70s involved violence and revolution. At that time, I stated that I thought it was out of control, and wrong. For the last two years, the rhetoric of the right has involved violence and revoltion. I state now that is out of control, and wrong.

For the last two years, the rhetoric on the left has involved how do deliver health care for this nation citizens at a reasonable price, why should we be the only industrial nation is which citizens routinely go bankrupt over medical bills. The rhetoric has been about global warming and the need to address it. About the need to grant oppertunity to all Americans to better their educations.

On the right, the rhetoric has been about succession, Perry, about replacing ballots with bullets, about 'the coming revolution'. Not all the rhetoric, but enough of it that it is what makes the headlines.

Even on this board with see some on the right speak of 'elimination' of liberals. What do you think they mean by that?
 
Sorry bout that,





I wish just ONE of you leftists would get off your "blaming the right" kick long enough to notice that, while the media and leftist pundits were rushing to try to link the shooting to Sarah Palin, MANY people on the right were expressing their horror and heartfelt sympathy and condolences to the victims and their families.

But no, all you can do is look for reasons why the conservatives are to blame, free speech must be immediately suppressed, and THEN getting outraged because your targets dare to defend themselves against your attacks.

Hypocrisy, thy name is, has been, and continues to be The Left.

The knee-jerk reaction was because of the constant reminder that there are militias formed, guns and ammunition stockpiled by lunatics who sincerely have as their goal the overthrow of THIS government. Please don't try to deny that. There has been a 400% increase in the number of threats against Obama from prior presidents. I can't remember if it was in this thread or some other where I said that it was MY first reaction, too: Well...someone has finally started the revolution, as promised. Hypocrisy? No. It was simple fear that this was just the beginning--based on hate and the promise to carry out threats made by the haters.




1. You actually believe that?
2. I doubt there are any actual militias in America, maybe some Muslim ones, hid up somewhere, but you can bet the Feds are watching them.
3. I remember when Bush was President, the liberal media newscaster used to threaten him on national tv.
4. Do they still do that?
5. It will never cease to amaze me how rabid the liberal media is.
6. And how those who listen to it, some how reverse the story line to say its the fair and balanced media.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You just keep those blinders on tight and cotton packed in your ears, and you'll be happy.

Here's a list of known hate groups, by state, and yes, I'm sure the feds are watching.

list-us-hate-groups
 
The last time a Representative or Senator was gunned down..was when?

Looks like the last Representative to die by assassination was Larry McDonald in 1983, preceded by Leo Ryan in 1978. The last Senator to die by assassination was Robert Kennedy in 1968.

As it happens, it appears to have become progressively rarer in our history for Congressmembers to be attacked, rather than more common. And Congressmembers in general are just less popular targets than Presidents, governors, etc.

By the way, on the subject of "how uncivil our political discourse is now compared to times past", it was apparently not uncommon at one time for Congressmembers to actually duel over political disputes. I'd say a little name-calling now is small potatoes.

A "little" name-calling? While it's true that historically, some pretty awful things were said, they stood out as exceptions rather than the rule.

Teddy Roosevelt called William Taft a fathead and puzzlewit.

Harry Truman called Richard Nixon a shifty-eyed goddamned liar.

Gerald Ford remarked frequently that Carter's presidency was a disaster. That sort of comment is commonplace today.

Common place and acceptable. Talk of bullets replacing ballots is not acceptable. Talk like Bitchin' Bachman does is not acceptable.
 
"Gabrielle Giffords

"Ironically, the American Congresswoman recently so tragically shot in the head has been extremely close to the Israel lobby, which has played a critical role in enabling the tragedies sketched above.

"The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) works year after year to ensure that the approximately $7-8 million per day of American tax to Israel /13/ keeps flowing regardless of how many civilians its troops kill. /14/

"Giffords has been known as 'a safe pro-Israel vote in the House' /15/ and could be counted on to support AIPAC’s various initiatives to shield Israel from negative consequences for its ruthless and illegal use of American weaponry. /16/

"She called a 2001 visit to Israel a turning point in her life (Israeli forces killed 103 children that year, 31 of them shot in the head) and wrote in 2006 (a year in which Israeli forces killed 665 Palestinians, 139 of them children, and Palestinians killed 23 Israelis, two of them children) that 'the United States must do everything possible to secure Israel’s long-term security.'

"Palestinian victims – killed first and in far greater numbers – seem to have been invisible to her."

Shot in the Head
 
Sorry bout that,





The knee-jerk reaction was because of the constant reminder that there are militias formed, guns and ammunition stockpiled by lunatics who sincerely have as their goal the overthrow of THIS government. Please don't try to deny that. There has been a 400% increase in the number of threats against Obama from prior presidents. I can't remember if it was in this thread or some other where I said that it was MY first reaction, too: Well...someone has finally started the revolution, as promised. Hypocrisy? No. It was simple fear that this was just the beginning--based on hate and the promise to carry out threats made by the haters.




1. You actually believe that?
2. I doubt there are any actual militias in America, maybe some Muslim ones, hid up somewhere, but you can bet the Feds are watching them.
3. I remember when Bush was President, the liberal media newscaster used to threaten him on national tv.
4. Do they still do that?
5. It will never cease to amaze me how rabid the liberal media is.
6. And how those who listen to it, some how reverse the story line to say its the fair and balanced media.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You just keep those blinders on tight and cotton packed in your ears, and you'll be happy.

Here's a list of known hate groups, by state, and yes, I'm sure the feds are watching.

list-us-hate-groups

The conservative area of Oregon did our state proud when a hate group tried to move into their area.

Grant County residents send message to white supremacists: Stay out | OregonLive.com
 
The rhetoric of the left in the 60s and 70s involved violence and revolution. At that time, I stated that I thought it was out of control, and wrong. For the last two years, the rhetoric of the right has involved violence and revoltion. I state now that is out of control, and wrong.

For the last two years, the rhetoric on the left has involved how do deliver health care for this nation citizens at a reasonable price, why should we be the only industrial nation is which citizens routinely go bankrupt over medical bills. The rhetoric has been about global warming and the need to address it. About the need to grant oppertunity to all Americans to better their educations.

On the right, the rhetoric has been about succession, Perry, about replacing ballots with bullets, about 'the coming revolution'. Not all the rhetoric, but enough of it that it is what makes the headlines.

Even on this board with see some on the right speak of 'elimination' of liberals. What do you think they mean by that?

Ironically, the revolutionary mood of the 60's and 70's had its roots in protest over the Vietnam war, then because tens of thousands of people were drafted. The same mood has not been evident to such a great extent about the myriad "wars" since then because arm chair patriots are nice and safe behind their computers "fighting" the war, or acting tough by playing video game "wars," or being complacent because war no longer affects them. It only affects less than 1% of Americans, the soldiers, Marines, and their families who are forced to share the entire sacrifice. In the meantime, the rest of us Americans were buying up everything we couldn't afford and getting in debt up to our eyeballs; the banks were accommodating this frenzy; and when it all came crashing down, it became all the fault of "liberals." Go figure.
 
The last time a Representative or Senator was gunned down..was when?

Looks like the last Representative to die by assassination was Larry McDonald in 1983, preceded by Leo Ryan in 1978. The last Senator to die by assassination was Robert Kennedy in 1968.

As it happens, it appears to have become progressively rarer in our history for Congressmembers to be attacked, rather than more common. And Congressmembers in general are just less popular targets than Presidents, governors, etc.

By the way, on the subject of "how uncivil our political discourse is now compared to times past", it was apparently not uncommon at one time for Congressmembers to actually duel over political disputes. I'd say a little name-calling now is small potatoes.

A "little" name-calling? While it's true that historically, some pretty awful things were said, they stood out as exceptions rather than the rule.

Teddy Roosevelt called William Taft a fathead and puzzlewit.

Harry Truman called Richard Nixon a shifty-eyed goddamned liar.

Gerald Ford remarked frequently that Carter's presidency was a disaster. That sort of comment is commonplace today.

Carter's presidency WAS a disaster. Hell, even the historians say that. That's not an attack. It's just fact.

And no, name-calling in politics is NOT an exception. It has always been the rule. What's an exception is this ridiculous notion today that ideologically-opposed political rivals are supposed to somehow campaign by saying, "My opponent is a wonderful, sterling guy with some fantastic ideas for the future . . . but vote for me anyway".

If you can't deal with competition, I suggest you avoid venues that operate around it. Trying to make political campaigns bland and milquetoast makes about as much sense as trying to creates sports where everyone gets a trophy.
 
How about I disagree with the policies that my opponent supports, and think they will damage the very causes he or she is championing. And here are the basis of my opinions.................
 

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