This used to be a great Republic.

[Charles_Main]

Every time the wife plays Pink's Fun House. I can not help but think of the Framers of the Constitution compared to the Congresses we have today.

News flash. For the last 2 years we had a congress that ignored the will of the people and passed laws more than 50% of us did not want.

We lost the Democratic part a long time ago.

I have to ask: are you sure you're familiar with how things worked around the time of the founding of the republic?

Things were far simpler and easier to understand. I look at what some of these so called Representatives are doing today, and I can not even grasp what in gods name their Motivations are.

lol

As far as me knowing what it was like back then. I am certainly not an expert, but I do consider myself a student of History, and I believe I know far more than the Average American. I mean I have read more than just the constitution. I have read countless other writings by the founders, and just about every Piece of Historical work I can find on our entire History. I also enjoy reading archived news papers and Books from the time.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Repealing the 17th would help a lot.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Repealing the 17th would help a lot.

Elaborate, please!

Ass-U-me-ing you refer to the 17th Amendment to the US Constitution,

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elaborate on how repealing it would help. I think implementing term limits would help more.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Repealing the 17th would help a lot.

Elaborate, please!

Ass-U-me-ing you refer to the 17th Amendment to the US Constitution,

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elaborate on how repealing it would help. I think implementing term limits would help more.

Sorry it has been a while. I can't make it by all the time.

Prior to the 17th, senators were elected to represent the states. They were elected by the legislature of each state and intended to represent the state governments themselves. The people were represented in the House and the states in the Senate, now the states have no voice.

I believe this has caused many problems including the rampant growth of federal power. We are not the United States as much as we are America anymore.

Having the senate as a populist chamber probably facilitated the passage of Obamacare as the states certainly didn't want it, even Democratic states don't want it. Maine recently got an exemption from it and many other New England states have filed for exemption.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Term limits is really a different topic. I don't see how it would help, we just had massive turnover in congress and the Republicans are calling for an increase in spending over last year of $120 billion while the Democrats are calling for an increase of $170 billion. Did anything change by switching out all those people? No, not really.

Term limits really should happen during primary elections when you vote for someone better anyway.

 

[Charles_Main]

Repealing the 17th would help a lot.

Elaborate, please!

Ass-U-me-ing you refer to the 17th Amendment to the US Constitution,

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elaborate on how repealing it would help. I think implementing term limits would help more.

Sorry it has been a while. I can't make it by all the time.

Prior to the 17th, senators were elected to represent the states. They were elected by the legislature of each state and intended to represent the state governments themselves. The people were represented in the House and the states in the Senate, now the states have no voice.

I believe this has caused many problems including the rampant growth of federal power. We are not the United States as much as we are America anymore.

Having the senate as a populist chamber probably facilitated the passage of Obamacare as the states certainly didn't want it, even Democratic states don't want it. Maine recently got an exemption from it and many other New England states have filed for exemption.

You hit the nail right on the head with that one. To many people today seem to not understand at all, what a Federal Republic is suppose to be.

They seem to see no difference between the States and the Fed, and are all to willing to give powers to the Fed that were intended for the states.

They seem to not understand that our entire system of government, is a system of Checks and balances. Power is suppose to be shared not just between the 3 Branches of the Federal Government, but also between the states and the Fed.

it is there that our system has been compromised. Over the Years the Fed has gone from a limited Government meant to take care of only the most basic things like Trade, and National Defense. To an all powerful force that has subjugated the Many States to it's will, almost entirely.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But the Tea Party too shall pass.

Why does the left hate the Tea Party so much? Disappointmnt about losing the election?

Because they are (at least mostly) right, and because people listen to them.
Anything that significantly threatens the power of the left bceomes their Public Enemy #1.

 

[Whitefeather]

Between the world development over which we have not power (the development of the rest of the world post WWII, and the advancement of technology making more and more of us redundant) and the outright abandonment and betrayal of the American middle class by the Masters, this is, indeed not the Republic it once was.

Should any of us expect that or even wish for it?

Times change. The Republic needs to change.

Term limits for Congress?

We're still pretty young as a republic and 'America' is still the best idea for a crossroads of the world market place. Where else on the planet do Protestants and Catholics work and play along side Shiites, Sunnis and Hindus in what can only be described as 'harmony' when compared to the homelands of each?

Just by surviving the first 2 waves of wealth consolidation in this republic as a democracy is reason for great hope in our economy of the future. Surviving as a democracy into the age of The Internet pretty much guarantees prosperity going forward.

Once we adopt some sort of term limits for congress, the upper middle class will take over from the ruling elite and they know both the value of profit in exchange for risk as well as the value of a working class market with a few coins in their pockets.

Keep buying stock in the companies you do business with.

We have always had the power to control our government and here are some examples:
The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc..

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

The following statement is a possible solution to the people having more say with congress:

Congressional Reform Act of 2012
1. Term Limits.

12 years only, one of the possible options below..

A. Two Six-year Senate terms
B. Six Two-year House terms
C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms

2. No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office. (Pay is part of their retirement benefits package. They receive this until they pass.)

3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of C PI or 3%.

6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/11.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

 

[Dot Com]

But the Tea Party too shall pass.

Why does the left hate the Tea Party so much? Disappointmnt about losing the election? Tea Party activists look like choirboys compared to the rabble that's disrupting the Wisconsin government. A democrat congressman, perhaps thinking of the good ol days when liberals burned the Flag in the street, recommended that the unions "get bloody". You know that is code for violent demonstrations. Tea Party people put pressure on republicans. The left should love them or at least ignore them but left has a overwhelming need to hate, it's the only thing that keeps them going.

I appreciate their help in the Colorado, Nevada, and Delaware Senate races. As to the 17th Amendment, these are the states who didn't ratify it (notice anything unique?):

The following states did not ratify the amendment:

1. Alabama
2. Kentucky
3. Mississippi
4. Virginia
5. South Carolina
6. Georgia
7. Maryland
8. Rhode Island
9. Florida

Here's one reason the amendment was proposed;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevent...ed_States_Constitution#Senate_election_reform

In 1906, Cosmopolitan published "The Treason of the Senate", a series of scathing articles by "Muckraking" reporter David Graham Phillips, which described Senators as corrupt pawns of industrialists and financiers.

 

[Vargulf]

I'm trying to recall when this was a great republic.
Was it when we had slavery?
Was it when the white government stole almost every foot of land from the native inhabitants?
Was it when there were no child labor laws and young children were forced to work 16 hour days in mines and sweat shops?
Was it when there were no worker protections and no benefits, you just worked until you couldn't anymore and were then out on the street with a tin cup in your hand?
Was it when native american children were taken from their parents, forced into white peoples religious teachings against the parents wills?
Was it when there were whites only water fountains and schools and blacks couldn't vote?
Was it when women weren't allowed to vote or hold meaningful jobs?
So, when exactly was this great republic and as we are currently 48th in mathematics and science across the globe, how are we exactly number one?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm trying to recall when this was a great republic.
Was it when we had slavery?
Was it when the white government stole almost every foot of land from the native inhabitants?
Was it when there were no child labor laws and young children were forced to work 16 hour days in mines and sweat shops?
Was it when there were no worker protections and no benefits, you just worked until you couldn't anymore and were then out on the street with a tin cup in your hand?
Was it when native american children were taken from their parents, forced into white peoples religious teachings against the parents wills?
Was it when there were whites only water fountains and schools and blacks couldn't vote?
Was it when women weren't allowed to vote or hold meaningful jobs?
So, when exactly was this great republic and as we are currently 48th in mathematics and science across the globe, how are we exactly number one?

If we, as a country, suck so badly and are such an embarassment to you, why haven't you moved your petulant, self-righteous ass somewhere else?

 

[Trajan]

Between the world development over which we have not power (the development of the rest of the world post WWII, and the advancement of technology making more and more of us redundant) and the outright abandonment and betrayal of the American middle class by the Masters, this is, indeed not the Republic it once was.

Should any of us expect that or even wish for it?

Times change. The Republic needs to change.

Term limits for Congress?

We're still pretty young as a republic and 'America' is still the best idea for a crossroads of the world market place. Where else on the planet do Protestants and Catholics work and play along side Shiites, Sunnis and Hindus in what can only be described as 'harmony' when compared to the homelands of each?

Just by surviving the first 2 waves of wealth consolidation in this republic as a democracy is reason for great hope in our economy of the future. Surviving as a democracy into the age of The Internet pretty much guarantees prosperity going forward.

Once we adopt some sort of term limits for congress, the upper middle class will take over from the ruling elite and they know both the value of profit in exchange for risk as well as the value of a working class market with a few coins in their pockets.

Keep buying stock in the companies you do business with.

young? well, yea I guess...Romes republican period lasted from oh, 500 bc until approx. 130 bc. Moral turpitude moves faster now...I'd say we are close.

 

[Avatar4321]

We went through this in the Girlded Age. We are going through it again. And in the end, there will have to be major re-distribution of wealth, or we will lose the democratic part of the democratic republic.

Wealth is meaningless. Freedom and self government is what needs to spread. I would be happy in poverty as long as I'm free.

 

[M14 Shooter]

We went through this in the Girlded Age. We are going through it again. And in the end, there will have to be major re-distribution of wealth, or we will lose the democratic part of the democratic republic.

Distribution of wealth in no way makes or breaks a democtratic republic.

 

[auditor0007]

Every time the wife plays Pink's Fun House. I can not help but think of the Framers of the Constitution compared to the Congresses we have today.

News flash. For the last 2 years we had a congress that ignored the will of the people and passed laws more than 50% of us did not want.

We lost the Democratic part a long time ago.

I have to ask: are you sure you're familiar with how things worked around the time of the founding of the republic?

As I recall, only a small minority even had voting rights. Didn't you need to be a male landowner who was white?

 

[auditor0007]

We went through this in the Girlded Age. We are going through it again. And in the end, there will have to be major re-distribution of wealth, or we will lose the democratic part of the democratic republic.

Wealth is meaningless. Freedom and self government is what needs to spread. I would be happy in poverty as long as I'm free.

History really does not support this. Many a society have chosen to give up freedom when they thought doing so offered them a better opportunity to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head.