THIS JUST IN on the Zimmerman case....

[taichiliberal]

Well you'll have to show how I was wrong. I gave my opinion about the affidavit. If you can show how that affidavit can be used to make a second degree murder charge stick, go for it. Alan Dershowitz says it is not sufficient and I agreed with him. Neither of us said that it was the ONLY factor in this case; however in his opinion the prosecution does not have a sufficient case from any evidence to make it stick. I have not said that or agreed with him because I don't know. But I do believe his credentials are sufficient to characterize his opinion as an informed opinion.

Once again, you make the blatant error that an affidavit stands alone sans an actual review by the judge and then an actual trial by jury (if the judge rules such). The affidavit merely facillitated the arrest...no more, no less.

THAT was my only point.

The affidavit is also being cited by ALL the media sources as the primary justification for the arrest AND bringing charges against Zimmerman. Neither they, nor I, nor Dershowitz has suggested that the afrfidavit alone will be used in an attempt to convict him. Geez, some of you people would argue with a post and manufacture all manner of myths rather than just have a conversation about a point in this case.

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

 

[PredFan]

Photo Of Zimmerman's Bloodied Head Released

The ABC News video also reveals (voice over) that there WAS gun shot residue clearly visible on Trayvon's hooded sweatshirt. That's significant because it means that the gun was pretty damn close to the gun shot victim at the moment the gun was fired which is CONSISTENT with a self-defense claim. (That is, if the gun was fired from more than 1 1/2 to 3 feet away which would leave no GSR evidence on the sweatshirt, it would be more difficult to claim that he was in a struggle with the kid at that particular moment).

So far we STILL don't have sufficient evidence to properly conclude all that much. But we DO now, at least, know that two important factors are consistent with what Zimmerman said back on the day of the shooting. That is clearly good news for Zimmerman.

The way I see it, the only question is does the evidence support Zimmerman's story. So far most of the things I've seen supports him. There might be something that the prosecutor knows that we haven't seen. I'll wait to see what happens.

 

[Foxfyre]

Once again, you make the blatant error that an affidavit stands alone sans an actual review by the judge and then an actual trial by jury (if the judge rules such). The affidavit merely facillitated the arrest...no more, no less.

THAT was my only point.

The affidavit is also being cited by ALL the media sources as the primary justification for the arrest AND bringing charges against Zimmerman. Neither they, nor I, nor Dershowitz has suggested that the afrfidavit alone will be used in an attempt to convict him. Geez, some of you people would argue with a post and manufacture all manner of myths rather than just have a conversation about a point in this case.

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

Whatever. You are arguing something quite different than what I have been arguing and I doubt we'll ever be able to get on the same track about that. And I'm bored with attempting to accomplish that. But do have a nice day.

 

[Peach]

Once again, you make the blatant error that an affidavit stands alone sans an actual review by the judge and then an actual trial by jury (if the judge rules such). The affidavit merely facillitated the arrest...no more, no less.

THAT was my only point.

The affidavit is also being cited by ALL the media sources as the primary justification for the arrest AND bringing charges against Zimmerman. Neither they, nor I, nor Dershowitz has suggested that the afrfidavit alone will be used in an attempt to convict him. Geez, some of you people would argue with a post and manufacture all manner of myths rather than just have a conversation about a point in this case.

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

The AFFIDAVIT isn't intended to be the CASE.

 

[taichiliberal]

This just in. Zimmerman got bail.

I watched the bail hearing. It was one of the strangest bail hearings I have ever seen. The DA was actually bringing up questions of guilt or iinnocence and the judge let him! Eventually, the law was followed, the Judge considered only the risk of flight and set $150,000 bail which will be easily met.

It seemed the defense was also from what I was just told.

Listening to the tapes of what went on, I have serious doubts as to whether Zimmerman will actually go to trial, much less be convicted of anything.

Cops totally screwed up crime scene investigation.

The hearing judge allows all types of nonsense like it's an actual trial.

The prosecution puts up a totally unprepared witness (where's the detective that filed the ORIGINAL affidavit for arrest that Wolfinger put the kibosh on?).

I get the feeling that NO ONE in Florida wants the Stand Your Ground law to be tried in open court.

 

[PredFan]

Photo Of Zimmerman's Bloodied Head Released

The ABC News video also reveals (voice over) that there WAS gun shot residue clearly visible on Trayvon's hooded sweatshirt. That's significant because it means that the gun was pretty damn close to the gun shot victim at the moment the gun was fired which is CONSISTENT with a self-defense claim. (That is, if the gun was fired from more than 1 1/2 to 3 feet away which would leave no GSR evidence on the sweatshirt, it would be more difficult to claim that he was in a struggle with the kid at that particular moment).

So far we STILL don't have sufficient evidence to properly conclude all that much. But we DO now, at least, know that two important factors are consistent with what Zimmerman said back on the day of the shooting. That is clearly good news for Zimmerman.

Since Martin is DEAD and cannot testify, why are we to automatically buy into Zimmerman's initial story? Remember, ZIMMERMAN PURSUED MARTIN. Essentially, you had Zimmerman FOLLOWING Martin around.....an unidentified, creepy guy following Martin in a car, at one time Martin approaches to see who's in the car, and then (according to Zimmerman) "runs away". Zimmerman PURSUES AFTER BEING TOLD THAT COPS ARE ON THE WAY AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO CONTINUE PURSUIT.

After that, we're lead to believe that Martin ATTACKED Zimmerman. But keep in mind that Zimmerman WOULD HAVE HAD TO GOTTEN OUT OF HIS VEHICLE TO APPROACH/CONFRONT MARTIN. So if a fight did indeed ensue, Zimmerman was the instigator/aggressor.

As for the blood on the back of his head......scrapes that produced blood and were easily treated WITHOUT stitches that would have been recorded by a hospital.

Since Martin is dead and cannot testify, then we have to wait for the authorities to do their jobs. The Sanford PD already did that but it wasn't enough for the lynch mob, who automatically assumed that Zimmerman was guilty.

Most, if not all of us, didn't automatically assume ANYTHING. We wanted the law to rule in this case, not the Mob. I am not, nor have I ever been on Zimmerman's side or Martin's side. I am on the side of justice and the law.

 

[taichiliberal]

The affidavit is also being cited by ALL the media sources as the primary justification for the arrest AND bringing charges against Zimmerman. Neither they, nor I, nor Dershowitz has suggested that the afrfidavit alone will be used in an attempt to convict him. Geez, some of you people would argue with a post and manufacture all manner of myths rather than just have a conversation about a point in this case.

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

The AFFIDAVIT isn't intended to be the CASE.

I never said it was....I'm pointing out that Dershowitz and company are wailing away as it is! Unless Dershowitz is saying, "I don't think there should have been an arrest", what's the frigging point?

 

[PredFan]

Dershowitz OPINION is just that....HIS OPINION!

The chief Det. at the scene saw enough holes in Zimmerman's story to file for arrest. To date, the more information comes out, the more Zimmerman's story stinks to high heaven.

2nd degree murder is being charged so that you have the option of convicting ON A LESSER CHARGE....as opposed to just going for the lesser charge and then having a total dismissal.

I seldom agree with any of Dershowitz's opinions, but it is an INFORMED opinion, based on his qualifications. What are your qualifications to dispute him with?

Funny how when there are INFORMED opinions that the neocon/teabagger/libertarian folk don't like, they will question and deride it with gusto. But as long as it fits into their agenda, then its sacrosanct.

I dispute Dershowitz on the FACTS surrounding the case. He may not like the affidavit IF the entire prosecutions case is based solely on it, but he cannot dispute that it does give grounds for an ARREST.

Thanks for the word that I bolded and underlined. It tells me all I need to know about you. No need for me to waste any more time with that kind of ignorance.

 

[Peach]

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

The AFFIDAVIT isn't intended to be the CASE.

I never said it was....I'm pointing out that Dershowitz and company are wailing away as it is! Unless Dershowitz is saying, "I don't think there should have been an arrest", what's the frigging point?

As if Dershowitz has seen all the evidence; too many media hounds both for Zimmerman & AGAINST.

 

[Ariux]

The AFFIDAVIT isn't intended to be the CASE.

Actually, the affidavit is intended to be the case. Its function is to demonstrate that the crime behind the charge happened. This affidavit doesn't do that. In the trial, the prosecutor would flesh-out the case presented by the affidavit and present evidence of its veracity.

 

[dilloduck]

The AFFIDAVIT isn't intended to be the CASE.

I never said it was....I'm pointing out that Dershowitz and company are wailing away as it is! Unless Dershowitz is saying, "I don't think there should have been an arrest", what's the frigging point?

As if Dershowitz has seen all the evidence; too many media hounds both for Zimmerman & AGAINST.

He has seen the affidavit and that is all he is criticizing.

 

[taichiliberal]

Photo Of Zimmerman's Bloodied Head Released

The ABC News video also reveals (voice over) that there WAS gun shot residue clearly visible on Trayvon's hooded sweatshirt. That's significant because it means that the gun was pretty damn close to the gun shot victim at the moment the gun was fired which is CONSISTENT with a self-defense claim. (That is, if the gun was fired from more than 1 1/2 to 3 feet away which would leave no GSR evidence on the sweatshirt, it would be more difficult to claim that he was in a struggle with the kid at that particular moment).

So far we STILL don't have sufficient evidence to properly conclude all that much. But we DO now, at least, know that two important factors are consistent with what Zimmerman said back on the day of the shooting. That is clearly good news for Zimmerman.

Since Martin is DEAD and cannot testify, why are we to automatically buy into Zimmerman's initial story? Remember, ZIMMERMAN PURSUED MARTIN. Essentially, you had Zimmerman FOLLOWING Martin around.....an unidentified, creepy guy following Martin in a car, at one time Martin approaches to see who's in the car, and then (according to Zimmerman) "runs away". Zimmerman PURSUES AFTER BEING TOLD THAT COPS ARE ON THE WAY AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO CONTINUE PURSUIT.

After that, we're lead to believe that Martin ATTACKED Zimmerman. But keep in mind that Zimmerman WOULD HAVE HAD TO GOTTEN OUT OF HIS VEHICLE TO APPROACH/CONFRONT MARTIN. So if a fight did indeed ensue, Zimmerman was the instigator/aggressor.

As for the blood on the back of his head......scrapes that produced blood and were easily treated WITHOUT stitches that would have been recorded by a hospital.

Since Martin is dead and cannot testify, then we have to wait for the authorities to do their jobs. The Sanford PD already did that but it wasn't enough for the lynch mob, who automatically assumed that Zimmerman was guilty.

Most, if not all of us, didn't automatically assume ANYTHING. We wanted the law to rule in this case, not the Mob. I am not, nor have I ever been on Zimmerman's side or Martin's side. I am on the side of justice and the law.

Once again, we have another willfully ignorant and intellectually bankrupt neocon/teabagger parrot squawking mantras from right wingnut press and broadcasts.

Too date, the Martin family has been a paragon of restraint, control and tolerance. THEY, ALONG WITH AL SHARPTON AND OTHERS, HAVE PUBLICALLY STATED THAT THEY WANT AN ARREST AND FAIR TRIAL.

The ONLY people who have been yelling "lynch mob" are the neocon/teabagger parrots in an effort to demonize ANYONE who questions the validity of Zimmerman's story or the actions of the local legal and law enforcement. So spare me all your BS about how objective an unbiased you are.

No bunky, the local cops DID NOT do their jobs.....they did NOT confiscate Zimmerman's gun, hold him 24 hours for questioning, do proper foresnics of the crime scene, do proper canvassing and questioning and follow-up of witnesses.

If it were NOT for the local black press bringing this to national attention, You and I would not be discussing this, and NO arrest would have been made. Deal with it.

 

[Ariux]

Too date, the Martin family has been a paragon of restraint, control and tolerance. THEY, ALONG WITH AL SHARPTON AND OTHERS, HAVE PUBLICALLY STATED THAT THEY WANT AN ARREST AND FAIR TRIAL.

Al Sharpton and the Martin family are so full of shit that they even stink like shit and look like shit (like Mr. Potato Head looks like a potato). Remember what you said here when Zimmerman is acquitted and then those Africans that you've praised for only having humble demands aren't satisfied with the verdict, and push for federal charges and civil charges.

 

[taichiliberal]

Photo Of Zimmerman's Bloodied Head Released

The ABC News video also reveals (voice over) that there WAS gun shot residue clearly visible on Trayvon's hooded sweatshirt. That's significant because it means that the gun was pretty damn close to the gun shot victim at the moment the gun was fired which is CONSISTENT with a self-defense claim. (That is, if the gun was fired from more than 1 1/2 to 3 feet away which would leave no GSR evidence on the sweatshirt, it would be more difficult to claim that he was in a struggle with the kid at that particular moment).

So far we STILL don't have sufficient evidence to properly conclude all that much. But we DO now, at least, know that two important factors are consistent with what Zimmerman said back on the day of the shooting. That is clearly good news for Zimmerman.

Since Martin is DEAD and cannot testify, why are we to automatically buy into Zimmerman's initial story? Remember, ZIMMERMAN PURSUED MARTIN. Essentially, you had Zimmerman FOLLOWING Martin around.....an unidentified, creepy guy following Martin in a car, at one time Martin approaches to see who's in the car, and then (according to Zimmerman) "runs away". Zimmerman PURSUES AFTER BEING TOLD THAT COPS ARE ON THE WAY AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO CONTINUE PURSUIT.

After that, we're lead to believe that Martin ATTACKED Zimmerman. But keep in mind that Zimmerman WOULD HAVE HAD TO GOTTEN OUT OF HIS VEHICLE TO APPROACH/CONFRONT MARTIN. So if a fight did indeed ensue, Zimmerman was the instigator/aggressor.

As for the blood on the back of his head......scrapes that produced blood and were easily treated WITHOUT stitches that would have been recorded by a hospital.

Nobody is automatically buying Zimmerman's intiial story. But for what purpose are some of you automatically discounting it? We weren't there. We don't know. So far, we have seen nothing in the initial police report or media that contradicts Zimmerman's version of the story. Everything else has been pure speculation.

It is wrong to defame Zimmerman without proof of his guilt. What he has admitted to is not worthy of more than mild criticism if even that. Certainly, if the story is as he has related it, he did nothing illegal and, depending on your point of view, nothing improper.

It is wrong to defame Martin until the authorities have shown to the very best of their ability what most likely happened that night.

There is no "automatic" discounting on my part, kid. I merely examining the FACTS and pointing out that those who so desperately want Zimmerman to be as guiltless as possible are quickly reaching conclusions that just don't add up.

As I did in the previous post.

 

[taichiliberal]

Too date, the Martin family has been a paragon of restraint, control and tolerance. THEY, ALONG WITH AL SHARPTON AND OTHERS, HAVE PUBLICALLY STATED THAT THEY WANT AN ARREST AND FAIR TRIAL.

Al Sharpton and the Martin family are so full of shit that they even stink like shit and look like shit (like Mr. Potato Head looks like a potato). Remember what you said here when Zimmerman is acquitted and then those Africans that you've praised for only having humble demands aren't satisfied with the verdict, and push for federal charges and civil charges.

You need to get sober, wipe the spittle from your screen and turn off conservative talk radio for a day or two.

Your bias and hatred of black folk is all to apparent, as to date YOU cannot provide one documented quote where either the Martin family or Sharpton have made statements akin to a "lynch mob". So instead, you just spew venom.

As things go, we are not even sure if the judge will rule that this case goes to trial.....but in any event pushing for a federal case or civil suit is WELL WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS TO DO SO UNDER THE LAW. TFB if you don't like it....or were you screaming bloody murder AGAINST the civil trial of OJ Simpson as well?

 

[dilloduck]

Since Martin is DEAD and cannot testify, why are we to automatically buy into Zimmerman's initial story? Remember, ZIMMERMAN PURSUED MARTIN. Essentially, you had Zimmerman FOLLOWING Martin around.....an unidentified, creepy guy following Martin in a car, at one time Martin approaches to see who's in the car, and then (according to Zimmerman) "runs away". Zimmerman PURSUES AFTER BEING TOLD THAT COPS ARE ON THE WAY AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO CONTINUE PURSUIT.

After that, we're lead to believe that Martin ATTACKED Zimmerman. But keep in mind that Zimmerman WOULD HAVE HAD TO GOTTEN OUT OF HIS VEHICLE TO APPROACH/CONFRONT MARTIN. So if a fight did indeed ensue, Zimmerman was the instigator/aggressor.

As for the blood on the back of his head......scrapes that produced blood and were easily treated WITHOUT stitches that would have been recorded by a hospital.

Nobody is automatically buying Zimmerman's intiial story. But for what purpose are some of you automatically discounting it? We weren't there. We don't know. So far, we have seen nothing in the initial police report or media that contradicts Zimmerman's version of the story. Everything else has been pure speculation.

It is wrong to defame Zimmerman without proof of his guilt. What he has admitted to is not worthy of more than mild criticism if even that. Certainly, if the story is as he has related it, he did nothing illegal and, depending on your point of view, nothing improper.

It is wrong to defame Martin until the authorities have shown to the very best of their ability what most likely happened that night.

There is no "automatic" discounting on my part, kid. I merely examining the FACTS and pointing out that those who so desperately want Zimmerman to be as guiltless as possible are quickly reaching conclusions that just don't add up.

As I did in the previous post.

Which conclusions have they come to and why don't they add up ?

 

[taichiliberal]

The affidavit is also being cited by ALL the media sources as the primary justification for the arrest AND bringing charges against Zimmerman. Neither they, nor I, nor Dershowitz has suggested that the afrfidavit alone will be used in an attempt to convict him. Geez, some of you people would argue with a post and manufacture all manner of myths rather than just have a conversation about a point in this case.

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

Whatever. You are arguing something quite different than what I have been arguing and I doubt we'll ever be able to get on the same track about that. And I'm bored with attempting to accomplish that. But do have a nice day.

Translation: you couldn't BS your way pass me, so now you're trying to bluff past your blunder. Sorry sweetness, but that dog of yours won't fly, as the chronology of the post will always be your undoing. Toodles.

 

[taichiliberal]

Nobody is automatically buying Zimmerman's intiial story. But for what purpose are some of you automatically discounting it? We weren't there. We don't know. So far, we have seen nothing in the initial police report or media that contradicts Zimmerman's version of the story. Everything else has been pure speculation.

It is wrong to defame Zimmerman without proof of his guilt. What he has admitted to is not worthy of more than mild criticism if even that. Certainly, if the story is as he has related it, he did nothing illegal and, depending on your point of view, nothing improper.

It is wrong to defame Martin until the authorities have shown to the very best of their ability what most likely happened that night.

There is no "automatic" discounting on my part, kid. I merely examining the FACTS and pointing out that those who so desperately want Zimmerman to be as guiltless as possible are quickly reaching conclusions that just don't add up.

As I did in the previous post.

Which conclusions have they come to and why don't they add up ?

Back track and follow the chronology of the posts on this thread to see what I'm responding to. I just get tired of repeating myself sometimes.

 

[Foxfyre]

Geez, you can't tap dance around your initial statements and what they imply...the chronology of the posts won't let you. So don't get all pissy and accuse me of "manufacturing" anything. If YOU cannot convey EXACTLY what's on your mind to print, that's not my problem.

The moot point of your first sentence in your latest response essentially echos what I previously stated. Dershowitz is bitching as if the affidavit is the be all, end all.....it's NOT. The judge will decide if this even goes to trial....but the affidavit was sufficient for ARREST. Deal with it.

Whatever. You are arguing something quite different than what I have been arguing and I doubt we'll ever be able to get on the same track about that. And I'm bored with attempting to accomplish that. But do have a nice day.

Translation: you couldn't BS your way pass me, so now you're trying to bluff past your blunder. Sorry sweetness, but that dog of yours won't fly, as the chronology of the post will always be your undoing. Toodles.

Ah good. You finally ran out of ammo so you've gone ad hominem and attacked me. That warms my heart because it is always irrefutable proof that I win, I win, I win!!! Thanks.

 

[taichiliberal]

Whatever. You are arguing something quite different than what I have been arguing and I doubt we'll ever be able to get on the same track about that. And I'm bored with attempting to accomplish that. But do have a nice day.

Translation: you couldn't BS your way pass me, so now you're trying to bluff past your blunder. Sorry sweetness, but that dog of yours won't fly, as the chronology of the post will always be your undoing. Toodles.

Ah good. You finally ran out of ammo so you've gone ad hominem and attacked me. That warms my heart because it is always irrefutable proof that I win, I win, I win!!! Thanks.

Stop braying like an ass, Foxfyre! The chronology of the post clearly shows it was YOU who "ran out of ammo" and tried bluff your way into a smug dismissal of my counter-points.

YOU FAILED and I called you on it. Now, in spite of your announced disengagement, you rush back to have the last word, thus repeating your previous folly and contradicting your earlier dismissal.

My statements on Zimmerman stand valid, and my assessment of YOUR posts are reaffirmed with each of your schoolyard retorts, Foxfyre.

Now, you may have the last word (or not), as it's clear you have not other logical recourse regarding our discussion of the Zimmerman/Martin case. See ya!