CDZ This is the problem with universal background checks for gun "transfers," not "sales."

[2aguy]

this is an article that points out the actual problems with universal background checks that have already gone into effect.......

the uninformed, who are being given information on background checks that is misleading.....are supporting universal background checks without understanding the true intent behind them.....

Symbolic Gesture Illustrates Idiocy of Background Check Law

One universal Background check that is already law....

The Oregon Firearms Safety Act (OFSA), enacted in 2015, follows the template of such “universal background check” laws and initiatives. The OFSA applies when any change of possession of a gun occurs, even if ownership or title remains the same, by defining a “transfer” as any “delivery of a firearm from a transferor to a transferee, including, but not limited to, the sale, gift, loan or lease of the firearm.”

It prohibits a gun sale or “transfer” between persons who are not federally licensed, unless the transaction is completed through a licensed gun dealer. Both parties “must appear in person before a gun dealer, with the firearm, and request that the gun dealer perform a criminal background check on the transferee.”

What does this mean in reality..........

Dealers are authorized to charge fees for “facilitating” these transactions, which means a loan of a gun costs the lender or borrower twice over (once for the loan, and again when the gun is returned).

A person who fails to comply with these requirements commits a criminal offense –a felony if the person has a previous conviction.

The OFSA has limited exceptions, including temporary transfers between specified family members (but not in-laws), for law enforcement officers (only “while that person is acting within the scope of official duties”), or to prevent death or serious physical injury (but the threat must be “imminent” and the gun must be returned “immediately”).


This is the funny part......one of the first people to get caught up in this law....is a rabid, anti gunner minister who won a gun in raffle that he planned to destroy....he then went on to break this law...unintentionally.......but he should be punished to the full extent of this law...because he supports this foolishness....

Reverend Lucas, a former lawyer and lobbyist, purchased $3,000 worth of tickets for a softball team’s raffle of an AR-15 rifle, seeking to win the rifle so he could destroy it in a symbolic act. After winning the raffle, Rev.

Lucas went through the mandatory background check process at a licensed gun dealer before claiming the gun.

He reportedly then gave the gun to a parishioner to store while he decided what to do with it.

Regardless of motive or intent, the “delivery of a firearm” to another person for storage is still a “transfer” governed by the OFSA.

According to news reports, local police have asked the Oregon State Police to investigate the matter. If convicted of a misdemeanor violation of the OFSA, Rev. Lucas could face a maximum fine of $6,250 and up to a year in jail.

As a law abiding citizen...I hope the minister is punished to the full extent of this law......I hope he enjoys prison food......

Better him than someone else.......

And this is another part of the real intent behind the law...to harrass normal gun owners in common gun activities that before were completely innocent and legal.....and now are fraught with legal peril......

Similarly, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) issued a guidance concerning “transfers” during hunter education classes. Resting on a convoluted interpretation of the initiative law, this concluded that volunteer instructors were “law enforcement” and exempted from the background check requirements, but only “when in formal volunteer status for WDFW and acting within the scope of their authority.” However, student-to-student transfers of firearms would not qualify under that exemption, prompting a suggestion that instructors use only air rifles or facsimiles that did not meet the definition of a “firearm” under the initiative.

So.........uninformed people have no idea what the true intent of Universal Background checks are......first...to harrass normal gun owners and to make any innocent, common gun activity legally risky, in order to discourage gun ownership and use.....

The primary reason for background checks......to get gun registration.......this is the crown jewel of the anti gun movement........

 

[Fair&Balanced]

And this is why MY plan is better, you are only given a background check once every fiver years, not every time you purchase a gun

 

[2aguy]

And this is why MY plan is better, you are only given a background check once every fiver years, not every time you purchase a gun

No...your plan is not better. You want to punish normal, law abiding people if they have a gun......if they don't jump through your hoop........my plan...you punish someone who commits a crime with a gun.....or if you catch a felon with a gun....the ones actually using guns to commit crimes....

 

[Fair&Balanced]

And this is why MY plan is better, you are only given a background check once every fiver years, not every time you purchase a gun

No...your plan is not better. You want to punish normal, law abiding people if they have a gun......if they don't jump through your hoop........my plan...you punish someone who commits a crime with a gun.....or if you catch a felon with a gun....the ones actually using guns to commit crimes....

a background check is not a punishment.


you're an idiot.

you and gary deserve each other

 

[2aguy]

And this is why MY plan is better, you are only given a background check once every fiver years, not every time you purchase a gun

No...your plan is not better. You want to punish normal, law abiding people if they have a gun......if they don't jump through your hoop........my plan...you punish someone who commits a crime with a gun.....or if you catch a felon with a gun....the ones actually using guns to commit crimes....

a background check is not a punishment.


you're an idiot.

you and gary deserve each other

Your background check would become a punishment....you yourself said if someone has a gun, no matter if they are not a convicted criminal, you want them punished...though they have done nothing wrong, committed no crime and injured no one...........I prefer to focus on actual criminals who use guns....

 

[Fair&Balanced]

And this is why MY plan is better, you are only given a background check once every fiver years, not every time you purchase a gun

No...your plan is not better. You want to punish normal, law abiding people if they have a gun......if they don't jump through your hoop........my plan...you punish someone who commits a crime with a gun.....or if you catch a felon with a gun....the ones actually using guns to commit crimes....

a background check is not a punishment.


you're an idiot.

you and gary deserve each other

Your background check would become a punishment....you yourself said if someone has a gun, no matter if they are not a convicted criminal, you want them punished...though they have done nothing wrong, committed no crime and injured no one...........I prefer to focus on actual criminals who use guns....

I never said any such thing.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Issue licenses to handle weapons. Like a driver's license allows the holder to operate a motor vehicle, your weapons license allows you to handle guns.

Problem solved.

 

[2aguy]

Issue licenses to handle weapons. Like a driver's license allows the holder to operate a motor vehicle, your weapons license allows you to handle guns.

Problem solved.

Not so fast....who pays for that....?

And should a fee be charged to vote?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

 

[martybegan]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

Arguing that a fee to have a license to carry a gun violates the right of poor people is as ludicrous as when the same argument is made against voter ID.

It's just a simple fact that those two things are the same scenario. The government OBVIOUSLY has an obligation and a right to ensure that only those who actually have a right are exercising that right.

Folks like 2A and M14 who just won't get with the program are destined to be left out of the conversation.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

And that is but one reason it should be a federal permit issued by the ATF , in conjunction with the FBI, and states and cities should have no say in the matter.

 

[martybegan]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

And that is but one reason it should be a federal permit issued by the ATF , in conjunction with the FBI, and states and cities should have no say in the matter.

Nice concept, but then one has to worry that the feds would start charging punitive fees, and creating long waits for said permit.

 

[2aguy]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

Sorry...the state can't put a tax on a Right...the democrats put a Poll Tax on voting to keep blacks from being able to vote and that was unConstitutional.......same with any training requirement.......

 

[2aguy]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

And that is but one reason it should be a federal permit issued by the ATF , in conjunction with the FBI, and states and cities should have no say in the matter.

You would trust the ATF to give out timely permits......or the FBI under obama and possibly clinton.....New York already prevents normal people from getting permit, New Jersey too......

 

[2aguy]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

Arguing that a fee to have a license to carry a gun violates the right of poor people is as ludicrous as when the same argument is made against voter ID.

It's just a simple fact that those two things are the same scenario. The government OBVIOUSLY has an obligation and a right to ensure that only those who actually have a right are exercising that right.

Folks like 2A and M14 who just won't get with the program are destined to be left out of the conversation.

Wrong...then you support taxes on voting..right?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

All the more reason to establish REASONABLE federal standards for all the states to abide by and recognize.

I would LOVE to be able to whip out my FL CCP in MO, TX, and a host of other states to buy and walk away with a new gun.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

And that is but one reason it should be a federal permit issued by the ATF , in conjunction with the FBI, and states and cities should have no say in the matter.

I'd prefer federal standards and state administration - but I'm open to just about anything if it will allow me to cross state lines free from worry about the guns in the car.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

The problem is that progressives when given an inch, take a mile. In NYC it costs $1000 and takes 3-6 months just to get a license to keep a revolver in your own home.

When one pays for reasonable processing, and the reasonable cost of a firearm, that is one thing. But governments and people that hate private ownership of firearms place procedures and costs to make people give up when it comes to getting a firearm.

and one can get a decent pistol for $200 or so, so the $2000 figure for weapons you state is moot.

And that is but one reason it should be a federal permit issued by the ATF , in conjunction with the FBI, and states and cities should have no say in the matter.

Nice concept, but then one has to worry that the feds would start charging punitive fees, and creating long waits for said permit.

In theory, this is yours and my responsibility when we vote, and the safety net is the extreme difficulty in changing The Constitution.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I paid $150 for my concealed carry permit and I have guns valued at about $2,000.

If you can't afford the license, how the fuck do you expect to pay for bullets?

Sorry...the state can't put a tax on a Right...the democrats put a Poll Tax on voting to keep blacks from being able to vote and that was unConstitutional.......same with any training requirement.......

Just because we have a right to own and operate weapons does not relieve us of the responsibility of doing that activity in a safe manner which secures and protects the community, even if that requires us to lay out resources. If we become a wealthy enough nation to justify it, perhaps a scholarship program of sorts for low income gun owners should be discussed, but when "cheap ammo" is 20 cents a bullet, 'low-income gun owner' seems like an oxymoron.