This is the America Chimpy and Co. want...

[OCA]

Bully could you please cite one American CITIZEN who has had their rights violated by any law passed by Bush? And please refrain from the foaming at the mouth tirades you've become accustomed to lately.

P.S. The rights of terrorists or enemy combatants don't mean shit, could care less if they are violated.

 

[Avatar4321]

Then you haven't been paying attention. But no surprise that...The Republican noise machine deafens you to the voice of reason...Plays on your fears...Makes you a willing dupe to Administration attempts to undermine the Constitution and the rule of law.

And as far as "killing our soldiers' goes, I have one thing to say: "Fuck you." I have family in the National Guard and on active duty that have been to Iraq and are going to Iraq. I've got skin in this game. Any one who capped them I would gladly skin alive and then pour salt on them. So kindly fuck of and die, miserable little punk.

Convenient how anyone who disagrees with you is unreasonable and a willing dupe.

The Constitution gives the President the executive power to wage war. That is the law of the land. Congress has the power to authorize it. Congress has authorized the President to do everything including anything incidental to waging this war that it takes. That is the law of the land. Except now, the Supreme Court, who had no jurisdiction to hear the case and no Constitution say in matters of national defense, has now said that because they disagree with a decision the President has made exercising his Constitutional powers, they can invalidate the military commission.

The President and Congress also has the sole power to enter into treaties and agreements. Yet the Court has also usurped that power and applied the Geneva Convention to parties who are not signitories.

The President is the one violating the law here. The Judiciary is. The question is, when Congress once again reiterates the Presidents authority given to him by the Constitution of the United States, will the Courts listen to Congress or will they again say its unconstitutional for the President to exercise his powers under his discretion.

 

[theHawk]

Then you haven't been paying attention. But no surprise that...The Republican noise machine deafens you to the voice of reason...Plays on your fears...Makes you a willing dupe to Administration attempts to undermine the Constitution and the rule of law.

You're the one that starts a thread trying to get us scared about the "threat" the administration is to American citizens, even though this law has nothing to do with citizens?

Liberals are the masters of fear tactics sir, you're proving it!

 

[Bullypulpit]

You're the one that starts a thread trying to get us scared about the "threat" the administration is to American citizens, even though this law has nothing to do with citizens?

Liberals are the masters of fear tactics sir, you're proving it!

Actually, the titile of the thread is, "This is the America Chimpy wants...". It was started as a means of showing just how little regard this Administration has for the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

Y'all are the ones who started lobbing insults and inflammatory rhetoric since you could'nt adequately address the issue. I simply responded in kind.

 

[OCA]

Bully could you please cite one American CITIZEN who has had their rights violated by any law passed by Bush? And please refrain from the foaming at the mouth tirades you've become accustomed to lately.

P.S. The rights of terrorists or enemy combatants don't mean shit, could care less if they are violated.

Bump

 

[theHawk]

He can't OCA. Because all he is doing is playing on fears. And remember, liberals feel that we are a 'global community' and we should extend all of our rights to scumbags like Osama Bin Ladin.

 

[theHawk]

I've got skin in this game. Any one who capped them I would gladly skin alive and then pour salt on them. So kindly fuck off and die, miserable little punk.

I see, so you are 100% hypocrit. Why are you fighting against this law, if you had your way you would have us extend all of our rights to the same scumbags, yet you say you'd gladly skin them yourself? :huh:

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully could you please cite one American CITIZEN who has had their rights violated by any law passed by Bush? And please refrain from the foaming at the mouth tirades you've become accustomed to lately.

P.S. The rights of terrorists or enemy combatants don't mean shit, could care less if they are violated.

Not one, but two...Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I see, so you are 100% hypocrit. Why are you fighting against this law, if you had your way you would have us extend all of our rights to the same scumbags, yet you say you'd gladly skin them yourself? :huh:

Family is family. Doesn't matter if its a guerilla in Iraq or a mugger on the streets of my hometown. They hurt mine...When I get ahold of them...They'll pay.

So, when are you going to enlist and walk yer talk?

 

[dilloduck]

Family is family. Doesn't matter if its a guerilla in Iraq or a mugger on the streets of my hometown. They hurt mine...When I get ahold of them...They'll pay.

So, when are you going to enlist and walk yer talk?

Enjoy prison !

 

[theHawk]

Family is family. Doesn't matter if its a guerilla in Iraq or a mugger on the streets of my hometown. They hurt mine...When I get ahold of them...They'll pay.

So, when are you going to enlist and walk yer talk?

Already finished my enlistment.

You still didn't answer the question.

 

[manu1959]

Hmmmm...Silence. Apparently even the most fervent supporter of Chimpy McPresident can find a way to get behind this.

too soft....viedo tape em while:

sexy chicks dance in front of them while dogs bark

make them eat bacon

then shoot them in the head

and hang them from the rafters of a hog slaughterhouse

die you fuckers die

 

[OCA]

Not one, but two...Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi.

Jose Padilla: former Chicago gang member who converted to Islam and was found to be in contact with Al Qaeda operatives and trying to concoct a dirty bomb...............sounds like vindication for Bush's NSA monitoring program of communication between terrorists into and out of the U.S.

Yasser Hamdin: U.S. citizen captured fighting along Al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan, did not deserve a trial and should have been shot on site....thankfully this piece of shit has been stripped of U.S. citizenship.

Figure a traitor like you would support to treasanous sumbitches like these two.....have you no shame?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Jose Padilla: former Chicago gang member who converted to Islam and was found to be in contact with Al Qaeda operatives and trying to concoct a dirty bomb...............sounds like vindication for Bush's NSA monitoring program of communication between terrorists into and out of the U.S.

Yasser Hamdin: U.S. citizen captured fighting along Al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan, did not deserve a trial and should have been shot on site....thankfully this piece of shit has been stripped of U.S. citizenship.

Figure a traitor like you would support to treasanous sumbitches like these two.....have you no shame?

Traitors...Perhaps, but US citizens all the same, and entitled to the rights guaranteed under the Constitution. Those include the right to confront their accusers, a trial by a jury of their peers, a right to counsel and <i>habeas corpus</i>, among others. It was not Chimpy's place to suspend those rights, it was not within his power under the Constitution. But what does he, or you for that matter, care. For you, and him, the Constitution is just "...a goddamned piece of paper..." anyways.

As for traitors, have you looked in the mirror lately?

 

[red states rule]

Traitors...Perhaps, but US citizens all the same, and entitled to the rights guaranteed under the Constitution. Those include the right to confront their accusers, a trial by a jury of their peers, a right to counsel and <i>habeas corpus</i>, among others. It was not Chimpy's place to suspend those rights, it was not within his power under the Constitution. But what does he, or you for that matter, care. For you, and him, the Constitution is just "...a goddamned piece of paper..." anyways.

As for traitors, have you looked in the mirror lately?

Keep doing what the terrorist want. Here is their trainign amual. Sound like it was written by the ACLU and other bleeding hearts


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/network/alqaeda/manual.html
Defining Members Safety:

This is a set of measures taken by members who perform undercover missions in order to prevent the enemies from getting to them.

It is necessary for any party that adopts Jihad work and has many members to subdivide its members into three groups, each of which has its own security measures. The three groups are:

1.The overt member, 2.The covert member, 3.The commander

Measures that Should be Taken by the Overt Member:

He should not be curious and inquisitive about matters that do not concern him.
He should not be chatty and talkative about everything he knows or hears.
He should not carry on him the names and addresses of those members he knows. If he has to, he should keep them safe.
During times of security concerns and arrest campaigns and especially if his appearance is Islamic, he should reduce his visits to the areas of trouble and remain at home instead.
When conversing on the telephone, he should not talk about any information that might be of use to the enemy.
When sending letters, he should not mention any information that might be of use to the enemy. When receiving letters, he should burn them immediately after reading them and pour water on them to prevent the enemy from reading them. Further, he should destroy any traces of fire so the enemy would not find out that something was burned.
Measures that Should be Taken by the Undercover Member:

In addition to the above measures, the member should...

Not reveal his true name to the Organization's members who are working with him, nor to the [Islamic] Da'wa [Call].
Have a general appearance that does not indicate Islamic orientation (beard, toothpick, book, [long] shirt, small Koran).
Be careful not to mention the brothers' common expressions or show their behaviors (special praying appearance, "may Allah reward you", "peace be on you" while arriving and departing,etc.)
Avoid visiting famous Islamic places (mosques, libraries, Islamic fairs, etc.)
Carry falsified personal documents and know all the information they contain.
Have protection preceding his visit to any place while moving about (apartment, province, means of transportation, etc.).
Have complete and accurate knowledge of the security status related to those around him in his place of work and residence, so that no danger or harm would catch him unaware.
Maintain his family and neighborhood relationships and should not show any changes towards them so that they would not attempt to bring him back [from the Organization] for security reasons.
Not resort to utilizing letters and messengers except in an emergency.
Not speak loudly.
Not get involved in advocating good and denouncing evil in order not to attract attention to himself.
Break the daily routine, especially when performing an undercover mission. For example, changing the departure and return routes, arrival and departure times, and the store where he buys his goods.
Not causing any trouble in the neighborhood where he lives or at the place of work.
Converse on the telephone using special code so that he does not attract attention.
Not contacting the overt members except when necessary. Such contacts should be brief.
Not fall into the enemy's excitement trap, either through praising or criticizing his Organization.
Performing the exercises to detect surveillance whenever a task is to be performed.
Not park in no-parking zones and not take photographs where it is forbidden.
Closing all that should be closed before departing the place, whether at home or his place of undercover work.
Not undergo a sudden change in his daily routine or any relationships that precede his Jihad involvement. For example, there should not be an obvious change in his habits of conversing, movement, presence, or disappearance. Likewise, he should not be hasty to sever his previous relationships.
Not meet in places where there are informers, such as coffee shops, and not live in areas close to the residences of important personalities, government establishments, and police stations.
Not write down on any media, specially on paper, that could show the traces and words of the pen by rubbing the paper with lead powder.
Measures that Should be Taken by the Commander:

*The commander, whether in overt or covert work, has special importance for the following reasons:

The large amount of information that he possesses.
The difficulty of the command in replacing the commander.
Therefore, all previously mentioned security precautions regarding members should be heightened for the commander. Many resources should be reserved for protecting the commanders.
Important Note:

*Married brothers should observe the following:

Not talking with their wives about Jihad work.
The members with security risks should not travel with their wives. A wife with an Islamic appearance (veil) attracts attention.
...

An Important Question: How can a Muslim spy live among enemies if he maintains his Islamic characteristics?How can he perform his duties to Allah and not want to appear Muslim?

Concerning the issue of clothing and appearance (appearance of true religion), Ibn Taimia - may Allah have mercy on him - said, "If a Muslim is in a combat or godless area, he is not obligated to have a different appearance from [those around him]. The [Muslim] man may prefer or even be obligated to look like them, provided his action brings a religious benefit of preaching to them, learning their secrets and informing Muslims, preventing their harm, or some other beneficial goal."

Resembling the polytheist in religious appearance is a kind of "necessity permits the forbidden" even though they [forbidden acts] are basically prohibited. As for the visible duties, like fasting and praying, he can fast by using any justification not to eat with them [polytheist]. As for prayer, the book (Al-Manhaj Al-Haraki Lissira Al-Nabawiya) quotes Al-Bakhari that "he [the Moslem] may combine the noon and afternoon [prayers], sunset and evening [prayers]. That is based on the fact that the prophet - Allah bless and keep him - combined [prayers] in Madina without fear or hesitation."

Though scholars have disagreed about the interpretation of that tradition, it is possible - though Allah knows best - that the Moslem spy combines [prayers] .It is noted, however, that it is forbidden to do the unlawful, such as drinking wine or fornicating. There is nothing that permits those.

Guidelines for Beating and Killing Hostages: Religious scholars have permitted beating. They use a tradition explained in Imam Mosallem's manuscript, who quotes Thabit Ibn Ans that Allah's prophet - Allah bless and keep him - sought counsel when he was informed about Abou Soufian's arrival. Abou Bakr and Omar spoke, yet he [the prophet] did not listen. Saad Ibn Ibada said, "Do you want us, O Allah's prophet, who controls my life? If you order us to subdue the camel we would do it, or beat and follow them to Al-Ghimad lakes (5-day trip beyond Mecca), we would do it, too. "The prophet - Allah bless and keep him - called on the people, who then descended on Badr. They were met by Kureish camels carrying water. Among their takers was a young black [slave] man belonging to the Al-Hajjaj clan. They took him [as hostage]. The companions of the prophet - Allah bless and keep him - started asking him about Abou Sofian and his companions. He first said, "I know nothing about Abou Soufian but I know about Abou Jahl, Atba, Sheiba, and Omaya Ibn Khalaf. "But when they beat him he said, "O yes, I will tell you. This is the news of Abou Soufian..." Meanwhile, the prophet - Allah bless and keep him -, who was praying, started to depart saying, "Strike him if he tells you the truth and release him if he lies." Then he said, "That is the death of someone [the hostage]." He said that in the presence of his companions and while moving his hand on the ground.

In this tradition, we find permission to interrogate the hostage for the purpose of obtaining information. It is permitted to strike the nonbeliever who has no covenant until he reveals the news, information, and secrets of his people.

The religious scholars have also permitted the killing of a hostage if he insists on withholding information from Moslems. They permitted his killing so that he would not inform his people of what he learned about the Muslim condition, number, and secrets. In the Honein attack, after one of the spies learned about the Muslims kindness and weakness then fled, the prophet - Allah bless and keep him - permitted [shedding] his blood and said, "Find and kill him." Salma Ibn Al-Akwaa followed, caught, and killed him.

The scholars have also permitted the exchange of hostages for money, services, and expertise, as well as secrets of the enemy 's army, plans, and numbers. After the Badr attack, the prophet - Allah bless and keep him - showed favor to some hostages, like the poet Abou Izza, by exchanging most of them for money. The rest were released for providing services and expertise to the Muslims.

...


PRISONS AND DETENTION CENTERS

IF AN INDICTMENT IS ISSUED AND THE TRIAL BEGINS, THE BROTHER HAS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING:

At the beginning of the trial, once more the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by State Security [investigators] before the judge.
Complain [to the court] of mistreatment while in prison.
Make arrangements for the brother's defense with the attorney, whether he was retained by the brother 's family or court-appointed.
The brother has to do his best to know the names of the state security officers, who participated in his torture and mention their names to the judge. [These names may be obtained from brothers who had to deal with those officers in previous cases.]
Some brothers may tell and may be lured by the state security investigators to testify against the brothers [i.e. affirmation witness], either by not keeping them together in the same prison during the trials, or by letting them talk to the media. In this case, they have to be treated gently, and should be offered good advice, good treatment, and pray that God may guide them.
During the trial, the court has to be notified of any mistreatment of the brothers inside the prison.
It is possible to resort to a hunger strike, but it is a tactic that can either succeed or fail.
Take advantage of visits to communicate with brothers outside prison and exchange information that may be helpful to them in their work outside prison [according to what occurred during the investigations]. The importance of mastering the art of hiding messages is self evident here.
- When the brothers are transported from and to the prison [on their way to the court] they should shout Islamic slogans out loud from inside the prison cars to impress upon the people and their family the need to support Islam.
- Inside the prison, the brother should not accept any work that may belittle or demean him or his brothers, such as the cleaning of the prison bathrooms or hallways.
- The brothers should create an Islamic program for themselves inside the prison, as well as recreational and educational ones, etc.
- The brother in prison should be a role model in selflessness. Brothers should also pay attention to each others needs and should help each other and unite vis a vis the prison officers.
- The brothers must take advantage of their presence in prison for obeying and worshiping [God] and memorizing the Qora'an, etc. This is in addition to all guidelines and procedures that were contained in the lesson on interrogation and investigation. Lastly, each of us has to understand that we don't achieve victory against our enemies through these actions and security procedures. Rather, victory is achieved by obeying Almighty and Glorious God and because of their many sins. Every brother has to be careful so as not to commit sins and everyone of us has to do his best in obeying Almighty God, Who said in his Holy Book: "We will, without doubt. help Our messengers and those who believe (both) in this world's life and the one Day when the Witnesses will stand forth." May God guide us.

 

[William Joyce]

Traitors...Perhaps, but US citizens all the same, and entitled to the rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

Bully, I'm sympathetic to your disgust for the Bush administration, but let's take a look at what you said about "Jose Padilla" and "Yasser Hamdin."

To me, it's the fact that we ALLOW THEM TO BE 'CITIZENS' IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT CREATES MANY OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEMS.

"Jose Padilla." Folks, this piece of crap Hispanic is ten galaxies away from what the founding fathers intended as a citizen of the American republic. He is as a Hispanic hateful toward whites and wants to see white America destroyed. He obviously has no regard for the Constitution and its rights himself.

Same for "Yasser Hamdin." This piece of crap Arab also hates the white American majority. He is a FOREIGNER BY BLOOD and can be counted on to try destroying us. Why, exactly, is he a U.S. Citizen? How did he get that distinction? Was he interviewed? Obviously, his interviewer didn't get too deeply into the issue of whether he's loyal to this country, BECAUSE HE SEEKS TO BLOW IT UP.

If we as Americans refuse to enforce any kind of standards for who becomes an American, then the most destructive elements will seek to become citizens! And if you think about it some more, what meaning does that give to 'citizen'? If someone actively hostile to the country qualifies for 'citizenship,' then citizenship HAS NO MEANING!!!

And if we refuse to learn this lesson because it's "racist," we can expect our country to die. Period.

The Constitution, as was noted by a famous judge, is not a suicide pact. But it is a pact. The rights you get under it MUST HAVE SOME CORRESPONDING DUTY, the least of which must be loyalty to this country and its people. Handing out rights to every human and near-human on Earth on a level they'd never conceive of on their own much less grant to others IS FUCKING SUICIDE and PLEASE EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE.

OK, gotta move the laundry along.

 

[dilloduck]

Bully, I'm sympathetic to your disgust for the Bush administration, but let's take a look at what you said about "Jose Padilla" and "Yasser Hamdin."

To me, it's the fact that we ALLOW THEM TO BE 'CITIZENS' IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT CREATES MANY OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEMS.

"Jose Padilla." Folks, this piece of crap Hispanic is ten galaxies away from what the founding fathers intended as a citizen of the American republic. He is as a Hispanic hateful toward whites and wants to see white America destroyed. He obviously has no regard for the Constitution and its rights himself.

Same for "Yasser Hamdin." This piece of crap Arab also hates the white American majority. He is a FOREIGNER BY BLOOD and can be counted on to try destroying us. Why, exactly, is he a U.S. Citizen? How did he get that distinction? Was he interviewed? Obviously, his interviewer didn't get too deeply into the issue of whether he's loyal to this country, BECAUSE HE SEEKS TO BLOW IT UP.

If we as Americans refuse to enforce any kind of standards for who becomes an American, then the most destructive elements will seek to become citizens! And if you think about it some more, what meaning does that give to 'citizen'? If someone actively hostile to the country qualifies for 'citizenship,' then citizenship HAS NO MEANING!!!

And if we refuse to learn this lesson because it's "racist," we can expect our country to die. Period.

The Constitution, as was noted by a famous judge, is not a suicide pact. But it is a pact. The rights you get under it MUST HAVE SOME CORRESPONDING DUTY, the least of which must be loyalty to this country and its people. Handing out rights to every human and near-human on Earth on a level they'd never conceive of on their own much less grant to others IS FUCKING SUICIDE and PLEASE EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE.

OK, gotta move the laundry along.

Agreed--unfortunately idealism and ignorance appear to be at the controls while America drives itself over the cliff.

 

[OCA]

Bully, I'm sympathetic to your disgust for the Bush administration, but let's take a look at what you said about "Jose Padilla" and "Yasser Hamdin."

To me, it's the fact that we ALLOW THEM TO BE 'CITIZENS' IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT CREATES MANY OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEMS.

"Jose Padilla." Folks, this piece of crap Hispanic is ten galaxies away from what the founding fathers intended as a citizen of the American republic. He is as a Hispanic hateful toward whites and wants to see white America destroyed. He obviously has no regard for the Constitution and its rights himself.

Same for "Yasser Hamdin." This piece of crap Arab also hates the white American majority. He is a FOREIGNER BY BLOOD and can be counted on to try destroying us. Why, exactly, is he a U.S. Citizen? How did he get that distinction? Was he interviewed? Obviously, his interviewer didn't get too deeply into the issue of whether he's loyal to this country, BECAUSE HE SEEKS TO BLOW IT UP.

If we as Americans refuse to enforce any kind of standards for who becomes an American, then the most destructive elements will seek to become citizens! And if you think about it some more, what meaning does that give to 'citizen'? If someone actively hostile to the country qualifies for 'citizenship,' then citizenship HAS NO MEANING!!!

And if we refuse to learn this lesson because it's "racist," we can expect our country to die. Period.

The Constitution, as was noted by a famous judge, is not a suicide pact. But it is a pact. The rights you get under it MUST HAVE SOME CORRESPONDING DUTY, the least of which must be loyalty to this country and its people. Handing out rights to every human and near-human on Earth on a level they'd never conceive of on their own much less grant to others IS FUCKING SUICIDE and PLEASE EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE.

OK, gotta move the laundry along.

W.J. gotta say that for the first time I agree with you, nopt on the racial aspects mind you but the fact that their needs to be a litmus test applied to citizenship for anybody whether born here or not.

Are you producing anything valuable towards a civilized society?(Hamdin and Padilla) Are you clogging up the machine with frivolous bullshit?(Sheehan, ACLU and countless others). I'm advocating a policy that says if you are found to be siphoning more off of society than you are producing or, and this is completely obvious, if you are caught trying to procure a dirty bomb or battling against your country on the battlefield THEN YOU ARE STRIPPED OF ALL DUE PROCESS RIGHTS AND DEALT WITH RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

 

[dilloduck]

W.J. gotta say that for the first time I agree with you, nopt on the racial aspects mind you but the fact that their needs to be a litmus test applied to citizenship for anybody whether born here or not.

Are you producing anything valuable towards a civilized society?(Hamdin and Padilla) Are you clogging up the machine with frivolous bullshit?(Sheehan, ACLU and countless others). I'm advocating a policy that says if you are found to be siphoning more off of society than you are producing or, and this is completely obvious, if you are caught trying to procure a dirty bomb or battling against your country on the battlefield THEN YOU ARE STRIPPED OF ALL DUE PROCESS RIGHTS AND DEALT WITH RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

You forgot one question---Did you use the legal procedure to get here or have you already violated American law ?

 

[Gunny]

Given the quality of replies so far, I seem to be correct in my assertion.

Given the quality of the original post and it's ranting, baseless accusations, why would you expect a a well-reason and worded response?

You lefties have been in continual attack mode attempting to portray Bush and his Administration as trying to circumvent the Constitution at every turn. Quite simply, it's nothing more than extremist rhetoric, and a lie the left is attempting to perpetrate on the American people.