THIS is exactly why our America economy is failing due to Free Market Capitalistas

[Modbert]

Indeed.. and if those kids lose an arm due to nixed OSHA regulation.. well, a picture of The Scarecrow will suffice for medical coverage!

Too bad they don't have a Public Option to help cheaply treat their injuries like we d-OWAI.

 

[Modbert]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year. Does that make Communism automatically better? No. I'd rather live in a Capitalist society any day of the week than Communist. However, we must face and admit the shortcomings of our system at times.

To not do so, would be welcoming what has happened in the past year to even more easily occur again.

 

[Oddball]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year.

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

 

[Shogun]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year. Does that make Communism automatically better? No. I'd rather live in a Capitalist society any day of the week than Communist. However, we must face and admit the shortcomings of our system at times.

To not do so, would be welcoming what has happened in the past year to even more easily occur again.

I have no problem with regulated capitalism. We didn't lose phones just because Bell Labs was broken up. At the same time, however, pretending that the cult of the free market has any interest in supporting America is just farcical. Hell, look at these same people hide behind failed economic opinions while scratching their heads over who to blame for our dismal economic reality.

I guess they can always blame the ****** in the white house instead of their own greenspan failures.

 

[Modbert]

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

It was the shortcomings of Capitalism due to the greed of people. As for laissez-faire, what you're basically asking for if does actually occur in this country would be a hundred times worse than what happened last year. I wouldn't trust the scumbags on Wall Street as far as I can throw them, giving them free rein is like bending over in front of them so you can fuck you in the ass.

Remember, one of the reasons all of this came about was the deregulation.

 

[Shogun]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year.

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

HA!

yea... and when a stimulus package DARES to try and limit itself to domestic goods.. well, someone call the antichrist... it's the end of days.

 

[Modbert]

I have no problem with regulated capitalism. We didn't lose phones just because Bell Labs was broken up. At the same time, however, pretending that the cult of the free market has any interest in supporting America is just farcical. Hell, look at these same people hide behind failed economic opinions while scratching their heads over who to blame for our dismal economic reality.

I guess they can always blame the ****** in the white house instead of their own greenspan failures.

I have no problem with regulated Capitalism either. I think that the deregulation that started in the Reagan years, continued through Bush 41, ramped up during the Clinton years, and continued through the Bush years until Enron and differently after was one of the major reasons this current economic downturn came about.

 

[Shogun]

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

It was the shortcomings of Capitalism due to the greed of people. As for laissez-faire, what you're basically asking for if does actually occur in this country would be a hundred times worse than what happened last year. I wouldn't trust the scumbags on Wall Street as far as I can throw them, giving them free rein is like bending over in front of them so you can fuck you in the ass.

Remember, one of the reasons all of this came about was the deregulation.

Indeed... and, notice how they all shy away from admitting how much TRADE DEFICIT we have with China.. you know, as if CHINA is busy doling out contracts to AMERICAN companies... yet, here they are going down with the ship as long as they can cry about protectionism and how bloated, apparently, our American standard of living is.

 

[Oddball]

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

It was the shortcomings of Capitalism due to the greed of people. As for laissez-faire, what you're basically asking for if does actually occur in this country would be a hundred times worse than what happened last year. I wouldn't trust the scumbags on Wall Street as far as I can throw them, giving them free rein is like bending over in front of them so you can fuck you in the ass.

What a load of crap...If there was avaricious levels of greed, it was the political greed of those who artificially manipulated interest rates and refused to assure the solvency of Fannie/Freddie.

Blaming capitalists for this is like blaming crows for road kill.

 

[The Rabbi]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year.

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

Why do you argue with people who think that last year's meltdown represents a failure of capitalism, rather than a natural occurance of the market?

 

[Modbert]

What a load of crap...If there was avaricious levels of greed, it was the political greed of those who artificially manipulated interest rates and refused to assure the solvency of Fannie/Freddie.

Blaming capitalists for this is like blaming crows for road kill.

You do realize you make a horrible analogy when you compare Capitalists to creatures of Death right?

There was plenty of greed to go around. If you really think the political greed was the only one that existed, you're not looking at the whole picture.

 

[Modbert]

Why do you argue with people who think that last year's meltdown represents a failure of capitalism, rather than a natural occurance of the market?

You and Dude might want to put heads together and come to a consensus. He's saying it wasn't natural as far as I know, you are.

 

[Richard-H]

Did any of you free market geniuses notice the name of the Chinese company?

"China State Construction Engineering Corp"

This is almost certainly a company that's subsidized by the Chinese government! How can American businesses and workers compete with the Chinese when they subsidize their companies and provide for all the major life costs for their workers?

Socialist companies provide childcare, education, healthcare, housing and retirement to all of it's people (albiet that the Chinese quality is poor).

American business and workers cannot compete in a fundamentally unfair market.

The people that are investing in China and dealing with the Chinese are NOT capitalist in any true ideological sense - they have no capitalistic ethics.

They are simple opportunists that couldn't give a rat's ass about capitalism or the free market.

There are only two choices for American businesses and workers:

Protectionism or Socialism.

 

[Shogun]

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

It was the shortcomings of Capitalism due to the greed of people. As for laissez-faire, what you're basically asking for if does actually occur in this country would be a hundred times worse than what happened last year. I wouldn't trust the scumbags on Wall Street as far as I can throw them, giving them free rein is like bending over in front of them so you can fuck you in the ass.

What a load of crap...If there was avaricious levels of greed, it was the political greed of those who artificially manipulated interest rates and refused to assure the solvency of Fannie/Freddie.

Blaming capitalists for this is like blaming crows for road kill.

aaaand there you have it, folks. When in doubt, BLAME A LIBERAL.




as if no one lived through the fucking 80s long enough to know how stupid your excuses for greed is.

 

[Oddball]

What a load of crap...If there was avaricious levels of greed, it was the political greed of those who artificially manipulated interest rates and refused to assure the solvency of Fannie/Freddie.

Blaming capitalists for this is like blaming crows for road kill.

You do realize you make a horrible analogy when you compare Capitalists to creatures of Death right?

There was plenty of greed to go around. If you really think the political greed was the only one that existed, you're not looking at the whole picture.

The political greed enabled those who traded in derivatives.

Were there not the confluence of artificially low interest rates, insanely low reserve requirements and political pressure to create mortgages for people with no credit, none of this would've happened.

Like I said, you're blaming the traders for the sins of the crappy paper they were trading.

 

[The Rabbi]

Did any of you free market geniuses notice the name of the Chinese company?

"China State Construction Engineering Corp"

This is almost certainly a company that's subsidized by the Chinese government! How can American businesses and workers compete with the Chinese when they subsidize their companies and provide for all the major life costs for their workers?

Socialist companies provide childcare, education, healthcare, housing and retirement to all of it's people (albiet that the Chinese quality is poor).

American business and workers cannot compete in a fundamentally unfair market.

The people that are investing in China and dealing with the Chinese are NOT capitalist in any true ideological sense - they have no capitalistic ethics.

They are simple opportunists that couldn't give a rat's ass about capitalism or the free market.

There are only two choices for American businesses and workers:

Protectionism or Socialism.

So we get construction at under-market rates. Kewl. Let's let them sign more contracts and go bankrupt.

 

[Modbert]

The political greed enabled those who traded in derivatives.

Were there not the confluence of artificially low interest rates, insanely low reserve requirements and political pressure to create mortgages for people with no credit, none of this would've happened.

Like I said, you're blaming the traders for the sins of the crappy paper they were trading.

As much as you would like to blame the politicians alone, your excuse for this doesn't explain people like Bernie Madoff.

 

[blu]

Capitalism has failed us in the past and especially so in the last year.

Wrong.

The only aspect of last year's meltdown that even remotely resembled anything laissez-faire was the trade in mortgage-based derivatives, which wouldn't have had all the high risk paper in it without insane amounts of outside interference in the creation of those mortgages.

HA!

yea... and when a stimulus package DARES to try and limit itself to domestic goods.. well, someone call the antichrist... it's the end of days.

Dude is correct. there is nothing wrong with deratives. the problem is that banks were forced to give mortages to people who shouldn't have receive them, adding much higher risk to the deritavties than normally would be there. without those loans the deritatives would be just fine.

 

[blu]

The political greed enabled those who traded in derivatives.

Were there not the confluence of artificially low interest rates, insanely low reserve requirements and political pressure to create mortgages for people with no credit, none of this would've happened.

Like I said, you're blaming the traders for the sins of the crappy paper they were trading.

As much as you would like to blame the politicians alone, your excuse for this doesn't explain people like Bernie Madoff.

regulations were already in place that should have caught him. they weren't implemented properly

 

[Oddball]

The political greed enabled those who traded in derivatives.

Were there not the confluence of artificially low interest rates, insanely low reserve requirements and political pressure to create mortgages for people with no credit, none of this would've happened.

Like I said, you're blaming the traders for the sins of the crappy paper they were trading.

As much as you would like to blame the politicians alone, your excuse for this doesn't explain people like Bernie Madoff.

Non sequitur.

Madoff is an admitted crook, who perpetrated a Ponzi scheme, not a derivatives trader.

The only place the gubmint fits in here is the SEC's blatant ignoring of Madoff, when it was evident he was running a con game.