This British criminal actually wanted his victim dead..so he shot him in the head...

[candycorn]

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Well, there would be 3,000 uses daily. You’d figure there would be about 1,500 stories (at least) on a day about these uses which would be only 1/2 amount. Show me 1,500 different stories in one day and we’ll examine it.

 

[2aguy]

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Except for the number of researchers doing the work separately, and coming to the very high numbers.......including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....so your argument doesn't hold any weight.....too much research on the issue and yet you will deny it has value....

 

[2aguy]

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Well, there would be 3,000 uses daily. You’d figure there would be about 1,500 stories (at least) on a day about these uses which would be only 1/2 amount. Show me 1,500 different stories in one day and we’ll examine it.

Most cases the criminal backs off and leaves.....very few criminals are dumb enough to push an attack against an armed victim...too many other unarmed victims they can rape, rob and murder...

 

[candycorn]

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Well, there would be 3,000 uses daily. You’d figure there would be about 1,500 stories (at least) on a day about these uses which would be only 1/2 amount. Show me 1,500 different stories in one day and we’ll examine it.

Most cases the criminal backs off and leaves.....very few criminals are dumb enough to push an attack against an armed victim...too many other unarmed victims they can rape, rob and murder...

Essentially if the “defender” had a bat the criminal would back off too so the idiocy of believing a firearm is the determining factor is as idiotic as the stat itself.

Thanks for admitting the stat is faulty; not that we all didn’t already know that.

 

[2aguy]

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Well, there would be 3,000 uses daily. You’d figure there would be about 1,500 stories (at least) on a day about these uses which would be only 1/2 amount. Show me 1,500 different stories in one day and we’ll examine it.

Most cases the criminal backs off and leaves.....very few criminals are dumb enough to push an attack against an armed victim...too many other unarmed victims they can rape, rob and murder...

Essentially if the “defender” had a bat the criminal would back off too so the idiocy of believing a firearm is the determining factor is as idiotic as the stat itself.

Thanks for admitting the stat is faulty; not that we all didn’t already know that.

You really aren't that bright, are you?

Please, tell us this wasn't a defensive gun use.....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out.


As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."

 

[Vagabond63]

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Except for the number of researchers doing the work separately, and coming to the very high numbers.......including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....so your argument doesn't hold any weight.....too much research on the issue and yet you will deny it has value....

All of them are estimated extrapolations, the truth is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence

 

[Vagabond63]

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Well, there would be 3,000 uses daily. You’d figure there would be about 1,500 stories (at least) on a day about these uses which would be only 1/2 amount. Show me 1,500 different stories in one day and we’ll examine it.

Most cases the criminal backs off and leaves.....very few criminals are dumb enough to push an attack against an armed victim...too many other unarmed victims they can rape, rob and murder...

Essentially if the “defender” had a bat the criminal would back off too so the idiocy of believing a firearm is the determining factor is as idiotic as the stat itself.

Thanks for admitting the stat is faulty; not that we all didn’t already know that.

You really aren't that bright, are you?

Please, tell us this wasn't a defensive gun use.....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out.


As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."

Assuming this is all true, that's 1; only 1,499 to go.

 

[2aguy]

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Except for the number of researchers doing the work separately, and coming to the very high numbers.......including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....so your argument doesn't hold any weight.....too much research on the issue and yet you will deny it has value....

All of them are estimated extrapolations, the truth is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence

And yet the numbers from the research are as high as they are from at least 17 different studies......from both government and private researchers who, for the most part, are anti gun researchers including the CDC, the Department of Justice and even, at the time, Dr. Gary Kleck.

 

[Vagabond63]

You keep talking about gun control as if it is working.....then you cite the Gun Violence Archive, a site caught lying over and over again.

Gun crime in Britain is going up, not down, showing that gun control is not working.....you have to hide that failure by using the murder rate...a rate that has always been low in Britain, because British criminals don't commit murder that often.....however, that is changing as the murder rate is at a 10 year high in Britain.....

Gun control takes guns away from law abiding people, not criminals...which is shown in the increasing violent crime rates in Britain..rapes, robberies.....they just aren't being murdered after the rape and robberies.....

That victims of gun crimes in the UK makes international news is a testament to how well gun laws in the UK work. You would not see English commentators mentioning gun crime in the US.

When gun crime is going up...that means that criminals are getting more guns, not fewer guns...that means that gun control is not working...... gun crime in Britain was up 42% in London, up another 16% last year.....so you are just wrong.

Someone needs to clean up London. How do you do it with less guns not more?

Same way the gun crime rate went down in America and UK in the early 2000's, investment in the local communites most affected, increased cooperation between citizens and police forces; more resources devoted to policing, not an extra gun in sight.

Gun crime didn't go down in the U.K....in fact, it went up.....what are you talking about...?

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .


Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics..

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

The trend in gun crime year on year since 1996 has been downward until 2016 when it's started to spike again. If nothing else it demonstrates that gun banning handguns has worked for 20 years. All it took is for a Right wing ideologically driven austerity program, cutting services and resources, to start an upward spike in gun crime amongst those without hope.

Oh, just an FYI the Daily Mail is the most unreliable news source in the UK, even Wikipedia won't allow it as a reliable source of information.

 

[Vagabond63]

Prople shot in Liverpool, 1. People shot in December in America over the last 2 weeks over 400, (I got bored counting when I reached 400). Thank god we have gun control here, I wish all our American friends as happy a Christmas as they possibly can in a country where 17.25 million of them have guns and it makes no difference when someone with a gun decides to kill them.

Number of Deaths in 2018 | Gun Violence Archive

You keep talking about gun control as if it is working.....then you cite the Gun Violence Archive, a site caught lying over and over again.

Gun crime in Britain is going up, not down, showing that gun control is not working.....you have to hide that failure by using the murder rate...a rate that has always been low in Britain, because British criminals don't commit murder that often.....however, that is changing as the murder rate is at a 10 year high in Britain.....

Gun control takes guns away from law abiding people, not criminals...which is shown in the increasing violent crime rates in Britain..rapes, robberies.....they just aren't being murdered after the rape and robberies.....

That victims of gun crimes in the UK makes international news is a testament to how well gun laws in the UK work. You would not see English commentators mentioning gun crime in the US.

And it also shows that UK citizens are totally powerless against their predatorial government.

So in the USA, you have a 9mm pistol or a 5.56mm rifle...the government has an M1 Abrams or an F35...who do you think would win if your government turned "predatorial"?

Ask the Afghanis.....where we are now leaving with all of our tanks, planes and drones....or Iraq, dittos.....you guys don't understand war, you don't understand self defense, so you really should leave it to people who know about these things....

Oh, do tell, when did you graduate from West Point?

 

[Vagabond63]

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.

Except for the number of researchers doing the work separately, and coming to the very high numbers.......including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....so your argument doesn't hold any weight.....too much research on the issue and yet you will deny it has value....

All of them are estimated extrapolations, the truth is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence

And yet the numbers from the research are as high as they are from at least 17 different studies......from both government and private researchers who, for the most part, are anti gun researchers including the CDC, the Department of Justice and even, at the time, Dr. Gary Kleck.

I'll say it again, ALL of them are estimated extrapolations fron limited survey samples, the truth is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence.

 

[cnm]

Again, their criminals have lots of illegal guns

There are fewer guns per head of population in the UK than in the US. Gun control keeps it so and keeps the firearm homicide rate at a fraction of that of the US. Only raving loonies could disagree.

 

[2aguy]

Again, their criminals have lots of illegal guns

There are fewer guns per head of population in the UK than in the US. Gun control keeps it so and keeps the firearm homicide rate at a fraction of that of the US. Only raving loonies could disagree.

Gun murder in Britain was always low, long before they banned and confiscated guns...the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up, after they banned and confiscated guns, shows that their gun control laws are not working...

Meanwhile, in the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns, over the last 25 years....our gun murder rate went down 49%....our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%...... gun crime in Britain is continuing to go up.....

 

[Vagabond63]

Gun murder in Britain was always low, long before they banned and confiscated guns...the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up, after they banned and confiscated guns, shows that their gun control laws are not working...

No it doesn't, it merely demonstrates what happens when you cut funding to organisations that work in deprived areas to combat drug abuse and alienation and also cutting 20,000 police off the streets and cutting police funds since 2010.

Meanwhile, in the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns, over the last 25 years....our gun murder rate went down 49%....our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%...... gun crime in Britain is continuing to go up.....

Really? so you are saying that 0.08% of the population owning a gun has resulted in a drop in gun crime of 75%. Prove it.

 

[2aguy]

Gun murder in Britain was always low, long before they banned and confiscated guns...the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up, after they banned and confiscated guns, shows that their gun control laws are not working...

No it doesn't, it merely demonstrates what happens when you cut funding to organisations that work in deprived areas to combat drug abuse and alienation and also cutting 20,000 police off the streets and cutting police funds since 2010.

Meanwhile, in the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns, over the last 25 years....our gun murder rate went down 49%....our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%...... gun crime in Britain is continuing to go up.....

Really? so you are saying that 0.08% of the population owning a gun has resulted in a drop in gun crime of 75%. Prove it.

No....what that shows is that law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun murder rate, the gun crime rate or the violent crime rate, the exact opposite of what you believe about gun control..... there is research that shows that when more people carry guns it does effect the crime rate, but the primary point....law abiding people with guns do not cause any crime.

What this shows, again....is that when normal people own guns, they don't use those guns for crime.....that means that gun control that focuses on law abiding people is stupid...... what you need is gun control focused on criminals...that means when you catch a criminal with an illegal gun, when you catch a criminal using an illegal gun for a crime, you lock them up.

That is our current problem over here in the States, which you do not understand. Our problem is that the democrat party, the judges, politicians and prosecutors in that party, cut our police forces, undermine our police forces, and the biggest thing they do? They keep releasing violent criminals back into our neighborhoods over and over again, reducing sentences for gun crimes, letting violent, repeat gun offenders out on bail where they then go out and kill....that is our problem, not law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns....