Thinking Ahead.....tuition Free Higher Education

[flacaltenn]

"I don't know. Why does it matter "

Because we don't need anyone working at low wage jobs. A low wage job does society no good and it doesn't help the economy. Top that off with unless one lives at home with their parents a low paying job cannot provide a living for a person. The goal would be to eliminate all those jobs so everyone has a high paying job. Of course that cannot happen but if employers have a hard time finding people to work their low wage jobs that would be a good thing.

Employers will figure out how to staff low paying jobs.. They either automate or offer some incentive if labor is tight. They might even make more advancement options with on the job training. Even a highly automated factory uses some low skill labor and offers advancement for motivated employees

 

[initforme]

Do we really want people stuck working in factories? We should be aspiring people to avoid them at all costs. They tend to be low paying more blue collar job which again could be slowly phased out and those offering those jobs well if they are having trouble finding workers that would be a huge improvement.

 

[Samson]

Do we really want people stuck working in factories? We should be aspiring people to avoid them at all costs. They tend to be low paying more blue collar job which again could be slowly phased out and those offering those jobs well if they are having trouble finding workers that would be a huge improvement.

Did you graduate from High School English?

 

[Politico]

Students planning their lives without investing in them.

Yea, that's educational.

Exactly. If you go to college you should pay for it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Anyone who wants to be better educated can do it for free or nearly so already. There is no need to incur more public debt for that which is already free.

So, all these 17 and 18 year olds that are applying for colleges, should just "do it for free?"

Its astonishing that practically everyone in the entire world has not arrived at the same conclusion you have discovered.

Why do you suppose that is?

Because they are all sheep.

It's no different from the grow up get married have kids shit.

People do not think about it they just do it and anyone who doesn't is thought of as strange.

Face it folks most of the shit these 18 year olds take in college is just as easily learned in independent study.

Anyone can design their own liberal arts curriculum, even math through calculus can be done in a self study environment.

It's a shame that people listen to you folks who tell them they can't do shit rather than those who tell them they can.

What little faith you all have in people.

Everyone is Sheep? Really? EVERYONE???

So you are the example of someone who put this resume together:

Name: Skull Pilot
Education: Self Taught Liberal Arts
Objective: To Contribute to the growth and profitability of a Multinational Corporation
Experience: USMB Contributing Member​

Not too many people with a bullshit liberal arts degree are doing much besides making coffee or waiting tables.

And I guess if your only goal in life is to work for someone else you have to play the game and waste tens of thousands of dollars to get a diploma.

But really if learning the material is your only goal then you can do it for free if you have the discipline.

You are all working on the assumption that one learns to get a job for someone else. Education to me is simply the acquisition of knowledge not the pursuit of a job.

If a job is what you want then in reality you are far better off learning a trade or sticking to technical degrees like engineering.

 

[Samson]

Anyone who wants to be better educated can do it for free or nearly so already. There is no need to incur more public debt for that which is already free.

So, all these 17 and 18 year olds that are applying for colleges, should just "do it for free?"

Its astonishing that practically everyone in the entire world has not arrived at the same conclusion you have discovered.

Why do you suppose that is?

Because they are all sheep.

It's no different from the grow up get married have kids shit.

People do not think about it they just do it and anyone who doesn't is thought of as strange.

Face it folks most of the shit these 18 year olds take in college is just as easily learned in independent study.

Anyone can design their own liberal arts curriculum, even math through calculus can be done in a self study environment.

It's a shame that people listen to you folks who tell them they can't do shit rather than those who tell them they can.

What little faith you all have in people.

Everyone is Sheep? Really? EVERYONE???

So you are the example of someone who put this resume together:

Name: Skull Pilot
Education: Self Taught Liberal Arts
Objective: To Contribute to the growth and profitability of a Multinational Corporation
Experience: USMB Contributing Member​

Not too many people with a bullshit liberal arts degree are doing much besides making coffee or waiting tables.

And I guess if your only goal in life is to work for someone else you have to play the game and waste tens of thousands of dollars to get a diploma.

But really if learning the material is your only goal then you can do it for free if you have the discipline.

You are all working on the assumption that one learns to get a job for someone else. Education to me is simply the acquisition of knowledge not the pursuit of a job.

If a job is what you want then in reality you are far better off learning a trade or sticking to technical degrees like engineering.

I though only sheep got degrees?

I agree with in principle with what you're saying. But I do not think it works for everyone. I also agree that many that seek to have a degree really shouldn't be wasting their time, but do so in many cases because the money is available from government loans.

Free universities, done The American Way, that is to say, open to All, would only exacerbate the problem of a lot of people who wish to be More Educated, but really either cannot be More Educated or who could be just as or more productive without it..

 

[dblack]

"I don't know. Why does it matter "

Because we don't need anyone working at low wage jobs. A low wage job does society no good and it doesn't help the economy. Top that off with unless one lives at home with their parents a low paying job cannot provide a living for a person. The goal would be to eliminate all those jobs so everyone has a high paying job. Of course that cannot happen but if employers have a hard time finding people to work their low wage jobs that would be a good thing.

Huh... I don't even know how to respond to that. Every single thing you say here is wrong.

 

[initforme]

Tell me why low wage jobs are important. Why would any adult apply for one? Get trained and further educated so you don't have to work for low wages. Would it not be good to see employers having difficulty filling those positions?

 

[dblack]

Tell me why low wage jobs are important. Why would any adult apply for one? Get trained and further educated so you don't have to work for low wages. Would it not be good to see employers having difficulty filling those positions?

Low wage jobs are important because high wage jobs are important. Do you think everyone should be paid the same?

 

[Unkotare]

Tell me why low wage jobs are important. Why would any adult apply for one? Get trained and further educated so you don't have to work for low wages. Would it not be good to see employers having difficulty filling those positions?

Wtf? How old are you?

 

[initforme]

Of course I don't think everyone should be paid the same. But the sign a a healthy economy is not how many lower wage jobs there are. Those jobs don't need to be filled by adults. And they won't be if more people are educated. Do you think someone should be doing those jobs besides kids who are there for a short time? I don't consider a job that pays minimum wage a true job. Surely one cannot live on it. More people educated means less people working for low wage jobs which equals more people off the gov't dole. A more educated society means less blue collar workers and more white collar workers making more money.

 

[dblack]

Of course I don't think everyone should be paid the same. But the sign a a healthy economy is not how many lower wage jobs there are. Those jobs don't need to be filled by adults. And they won't be if more people are educated. Do you think someone should be doing those jobs besides kids who are there for a short time? I don't consider a job that pays minimum wage a true job. Surely one cannot live on it. More people educated means less people working for low wage jobs which equals more people off the gov't dole. A more educated society means less blue collar workers and more white collar workers making more money.

I'm not sure you've really thought through the things you're saying here. But I can't slam you for it, because these are the kinds of simplistic ideas politicians try to sell to voters, and our news outlets dutifully regurgitate. But they really don't make any sense.

 

[Samson]

Tell me why low wage jobs are important. Why would any adult apply for one? Get trained and further educated so you don't have to work for low wages. Would it not be good to see employers having difficulty filling those positions?

Low wage jobs are important because high wage jobs are important. Do you think everyone should be paid the same?

Do either of you recall the topic of the thread?

Go back and read the OP.

 

[Conservative65]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

When are you morons going to learn there is no such thing? Because the cost isn't placed directly on the one wanting the education doesn't mean there isn't a cost associated with it. The costs are placed on those other than the one in school.

 

[DGS49]

This whole side discussion is off topic, but...

There is some really stupid shit being printed on this thread.

WAGES ARE NOT DETERMINED BY HOW MUCH THE EMPLOYEE NEEDS OR WANTS!

Jesus, how stupid can you be?

Human effort is a commodity, just like the raw materials that go into a finished product. The employer will purchase that commodity at the lowest possible cost. He would be stupid to do otherwise, just as he would be stupid to buy his lumber at a yard that charges $10/ft when he could buy it someplace else for $8/ft.

If he has a need for work that requires no special knowledge or skill but merely a willingness to do it, he will offer a low wage. Anyone looking for work can either consider that job or not. It's their own choice. If no one is willing to do the work at that wage, then the employer will be forced to raise the wage until she can find the people she needs to get the job done. The fact that said employee cannot live on the wage is irrelevant to the employer, except to the extent that that factor reduces the pool of potential employees.

At minimum wage, the pool of willing employees may be limited to school kids, people looking for a SECOND INCOME for their household, or adults who have no other options, and will only last there until they find something better. Again, these are factors that the employer must consider.

If an employee is working there for minimum wage and later (1) believes they are worth more, or (2) finds that she can no longer meet her needs at minimum wage, then that employee must either find another job or convince the employer that she is worth more than minimum wage.

In what bizzarro world would the employer be obliged to increase the employee's compensation under those circumstances?

At another end of the spectrum, you can have someone with the greatest credentials in the world who, for one reason or another, cannot find a job that pays a wage commensurate with those credentials. Tough shit. This is not the Government's or the taxpayers' problem.

I worked for the Federal Government alongside a woman with a Masters Degree from Brown. GS-5. It was the best she could find. Maybe in D.C. she could have found a better job, or in Boston, but this was the best she could do.

I personally worked several jobs for minimum wage. Short order cook, security guard, janitor. When I needed more money I worked overtime, got a second job, and/or looked for something better. Never did I feel myself wronged or abused. The work was offered at MW and I took it. The employers knew that as soon as I could find something better I'd be gone. They also knew that replacing me would be no problem.

An inflated minimum wage, such as the one they are pretending to offer in Seattle, will have the exact same result as raising the price of any commodity to more than its real economic value: Employers will (a) use less of it, (b) find substitutes for it, and (c) go to the "black market" to avoid the mandatory wage (hiring people "under the table"). A few people will get a nice raise, but even more of them will either lose their jobs due to layoffs, or have their hours cut, or be replaced by people with better capabilities.

The law of unintended consequences. You can't get around it.

 

[peach174]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

They can afford to do it because Germany has about 2 million students in college.
Germany also takes over 50% of the workers pay.
America has around 18 to 20 million students.
Germany's cost per student it around 9,284.73
America's cost per student is about 12,550.24
It is way to expensive for us to do the same.

 

[dblack]

Tell me why low wage jobs are important. Why would any adult apply for one? Get trained and further educated so you don't have to work for low wages. Would it not be good to see employers having difficulty filling those positions?

Low wage jobs are important because high wage jobs are important. Do you think everyone should be paid the same?

Do either of you recall the topic of the thread?

Go back and read the OP.

Go back and read my response to initforme's original tangent.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Yeah! Fuck doing anything based on merit!

 

[Unkotare]

There is a reason why the US has the best universities in the world and Germany does not.

 

[initforme]

If you pay me a low wage, do you still expect me to be really productive? Answer of course is no. Its more of a show up and do the minimum. If you pretend to pay me, I pretend to work. If you want good productivity, then you had better pay me more. That's called capitalism.