Thief awarded $1.2 million

[manu1959]

I agree- GOOD for the judge in deciding this case that way. Even criminals have constitutional rights.. not the least of which should be to be arrested by someone with adequate firearms training.. and not made a cripple for the remainder of his life. The thief was wrong for stealing, but the cop was even more wrong for "jumping the gun"- excuse the pun..

The cop is lucky the guy didn't get killed!! Except that now, this poor jerk has to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair for petit theft.. And that punishment, IMHO, really does not seem to fit the crime.

Excellent article, by the way.

So ... you expect the cops to just willy nilly say "halt" and expect a possibly armed assailant to not fire ... ever?

Yes- it is not "willy nilly" as you describe it to be- and anyone and everyone should be considered a "possibly armed" suspect.. Not an assailant. An assailant is someone who assaulted someone else..

Also, police are trained to not shoot people who are not presenting them with some type of deadly force.. They arent allowed to shoot someone based on a "possibility" of having a deadly weapon- only when they actually SEE that weapon, and the person is presenting it in a way that causes the officer to think that the person is going to use it to harm him or someone else. I was base security when I was in the Navy and have had police training that is similar to regular police training, so I am telling you this as a fact. Deadly force cannot be used unless there is an actual threat of it.

so let me see if i have this right.....it is night ....you catch me from behind ... stealing stuff with things in my hands....you are a cop....you yell police halt.....i tunrn and begin to rais my hands with the stuff in them....by the time i turn to face you my hands are 1/2 way up and i still have stuff in them.....

tell me do you shoot me or wait till i shoot you.....

 

[RadiomanATL]

So ... you expect the cops to just willy nilly say "halt" and expect a possibly armed assailant to not fire ... ever?

Yes- it is not "willy nilly" as you describe it to be- and anyone and everyone should be considered a "possibly armed" suspect.. Not an assailant. An assailant is someone who assaulted someone else..

Also, police are trained to not shoot people who are not presenting them with some type of deadly force.. They arent allowed to shoot someone based on a "possibility" of having a deadly weapon- only when they actually SEE that weapon, and the person is presenting it in a way that causes the officer to think that the person is going to use it to harm him or someone else. I was base security when I was in the Navy and have had police training that is similar to regular police training, so I am telling you this as a fact. Deadly force cannot be used unless there is an actual threat of it.

so let me see if i have this right.....it is night ....you catch me from behind ... stealing stuff with things in my hands....you are a cop....you yell police halt.....i tunrn and begin to rais my hands with the stuff in them....by the time i turn to face you my hands are 1/2 way up and i still have stuff in them.....

tell me do you shoot me or wait till i shoot you.....

Too bad.....

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

 

[JD_2B]

So ... you expect the cops to just willy nilly say "halt" and expect a possibly armed assailant to not fire ... ever?

Yes- it is not "willy nilly" as you describe it to be- and anyone and everyone should be considered a "possibly armed" suspect.. Not an assailant. An assailant is someone who assaulted someone else..

Also, police are trained to not shoot people who are not presenting them with some type of deadly force.. They arent allowed to shoot someone based on a "possibility" of having a deadly weapon- only when they actually SEE that weapon, and the person is presenting it in a way that causes the officer to think that the person is going to use it to harm him or someone else. I was base security when I was in the Navy and have had police training that is similar to regular police training, so I am telling you this as a fact. Deadly force cannot be used unless there is an actual threat of it.

so let me see if i have this right.....it is night ....you catch me from behind ... stealing stuff with things in my hands....you are a cop....you yell police halt.....i tunrn and begin to rais my hands with the stuff in them....by the time i turn to face you my hands are 1/2 way up and i still have stuff in them.....

tell me do you shoot me or wait till i shoot you.....

Hypothetically- You are complying, and willing to cooperate, and I haven't seen a gun, or the ability to even use one, what with your hands full of stolen goods- so I would keep my gun out, and aimed at you, and my eyes trained on your hands, to ensure that no gun exists, or determine if one does exist.
Since you are being compliant, by raising your hands in the air, I have no reason to believe you are doing anything but putting your hands in the universal "surrender" position, and until a moment arrives when you change your mind, and reach for something, I will continue to train my weapon on you, and warn you to drop everything. If I can see (in the process of the arm raising) a gun IS in your hand and you are raising your hands up in the air, in what may be a surrender position, and may not be, yes I would wait about a split second to shoot- because that amount of time I need to ensure my own knowledge and peace of mind that your gesture is either cooperative or the use of deadly force.

Police go through a simulator program on a regular basis called P.H.A.T.S (It has been a long time for me, but this was the simulator that my base security force used at the police station) that gives you "shoot or no shoot" situations. Being an amateur, I "shot" with a laser gun, a person pulling out his wallet, after I told him to put his hands up. That was a fail scenario, for me. There were many other scenarios that I passed, though too, of course.. lol- That one in particular was very early in my training, and only one of several that I could discuss, for illustrative purposes. Even further in my training, we had "shoot, no shoot, or spray" situations, regarding pepper spray.

Every situation is different- but the bottom line is that one must NOT jump to conclusions before they are absolutely sure that they are meeting deadly force with deadly force.

This is one of the potential problems with being a police officer- when one has a gun, and is allowed to open carry, one is more inclined to get startled and use it, mistakenly.. such as the case presented here.