They don't hate us because of our freedoms...

Do you understand the concept of "blowback"?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 83.3%
  • No

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

Reasoning

Active Member
Apr 15, 2010
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[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Policy-Freedom-Commerce-Friendship/dp/0912453001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242861810&sr=8-1"]Foreign Policy, Welfare, and 9/11 (page 245)[/ame]

"The tragedy of 9/11 and its aftermath dramatize so clearly how a flawed foreign policy has served to encourage the majoritarians determined to run everyone’s life.

Excessive meddling in the internal affairs of other nations and involving ourselves in every conflict around the globe has not endeared the United States to the oppressed of the world.

The Japanese are tired of us. The South Koreans are tired of us. The Europeans are tired of us. The Central Americans are tired of us. The Filipinos are tired of us. And above all, the Arab Muslims are tired of us.

We believe bin Laden when he takes credit for an attack on the West, and we believe him when he warns us of an impending attack. But we refuse to listen to his explanation of why he and his allies are at war with us.

Bin Laden’s claims are straightforward.

The U.S. defiles Islam with military bases on holy land in Saudi Arabia, its initiation of war against Iraq, with 12 years of persistent bombing, and its dollars and weapons being used against the Palestinians as the Palestinian territory shrinks and Israel’s occupation expands.

There will be no peace in the world for the next 50 years or longer if we refuse to believe why those who are attacking us do it.

To dismiss terrorism as the result of Muslims hating us because we’re rich and free is one of the greatest foreign-policy frauds ever perpetrated on the American people.

Because the propaganda machine, the media, and the government have restated this so many times, the majority now accept it at face value. And the administration gets the political cover it needs to pursue a “holy” war for democracy against the infidels who hate us for our goodness.

Polling on the matter is followed closely and, unfortunately, is far more important than the rule of law. Do we hear the pundits talk of constitutional restraints on the Congress and the administration? No, all we ever hear are reassurances that the majority supports the President; therefore it must be all right.

The terrorists’ attacks on us, though never justified, are related to our severely flawed foreign policy of intervention. They also reflect the shortcomings of a bureaucracy that is already big enough to know everything it needs to know about any impending attack but too cumbersome to do anything about it.

Bureaucratic weaknesses within a fragile welfare state provide a prime opportunity for those whom we antagonize through our domination over world affairs and global wealth to take advantage of our vulnerability.

But what has been our answer to the shortcomings of policies driven by manipulated majority opinion by the powerful elite? We have responded by massively increasing the federal government’s policing activity to hold American citizens in check and make sure we are well-behaved and pose no threat, while massively expanding our aggressive presence around the world.

There is no possible way these moves can make us more secure against terrorism, yet they will accelerate our march toward national bankruptcy with a currency collapse.

Relying on authoritarian democracy and domestic and international meddling only move us sharply away from a constitutional republic and the rule of law and toward the turbulence of a decaying democracy, about which Madison and others had warned.

Once the goal of liberty is replaced by a preconceived notion of the benefits and the moral justifications of a democracy, a trend toward internationalism and world government follows.

Can one imagine what it might be like if a true worldwide democracy existed and the United Nations were controlled by a worldwide, one man/one vote philosophy? The masses of China and India could vote themselves whatever they needed from the more prosperous western countries.

How long would a world system last based on this absurdity? Yet this is the principle that we’re working so hard to impose on ourselves and others around the world.

In spite of the great strides made toward one-world government based on egalitarianism, I’m optimistic that this Utopian nightmare will never come to fruition. I have already made the case that here at home powerful special interests take over controlling majority opinion, making sure fairness in distribution is never achieved.

This fact causes resentment and becomes so expensive that the entire system becomes unstable and eventually collapses. Democratic socialism is so destructive to production of wealth that it must fail, just as socialism failed under Soviet Communism.

We have a long way to go before old-fashioned nationalism is dead and buried. In the meantime, the determination of those promoting democratic socialism will cause great harm to many people before its chaotic end and we rediscover the basic principle responsible for all of human progress."

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Policy-Freedom-Commerce-Friendship/dp/0912453001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242861810&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: A Foreign Policy of Freedom: Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship…[/ame]
 
They live in a very simplistic, black and white world

They do not want our freedoms
 
They live in a very simplistic, black and white world

They do not want our freedoms

That's fine. We have no right to impose our societal views & norms upon them either.

If enough people in a country feel they need a change, let them make it through whatever means necessary like this country and so many others have.

Forced "freedom" at the point of a gun the greatest oxymoron of our generation.

People will always resist force.
 
That's fine. We have no right to impose our societal views & norms upon them either.

If enough people in a country feel they need a change, let them make it through whatever means necessary like this country and so many others have.

Forced "freedom" at the point of a gun the greatest oxymoron of our generation.

People will always resist force.

Very true. Only change from within is sustainable.
USA has selective standards. In Iran it supports the people against the regime.
In Arab world, USA supports regimes against the people.
 
They might not hate us for our freedoms, but they certainly hate us for our free acts of drawing a cartoon of their religious icon, broadcasting encrypted entertainment that shows naughty bits, creating a market for their natural resources and consuming most of it, not submitting to the Caliph, occupying the same country that houses Mecca at the request of the host nation, etc.....
 
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They might not hate us for our freedoms, but they certainly hate us for our free acts of drawing a cartoon of their religious icon, broadcasting encrypted entertainment that shows naughty bits, creating a market for their natural resources and consuming most of it, not submitting to the Caliph, occupying the same country that houses Mecca at the request of the host nation, etc.....

This is more in reference to the motivations of 9/11, which are arguably the most important motivations to understand.
 
They might not hate us for our freedoms, but they certainly hate us for our free acts of drawing a cartoon of their religious icon, broadcasting encrypted entertainment that shows naughty bits, creating a market for their natural resources and consuming most of it, not submitting to the Caliph, occupying the same country that houses Mecca at the request of the host nation, etc.....

This is more in reference to the motivations of 9/11, which are arguably the most important motivations to understand.

Ok.

So what about those motivations justifies the attack and/or the response? And what about those motivations gives anyone a basis to not see it for what it is?

Did the US cause all this?
 
For the first time in its history, the United States is trying to wage and win a war without accurately identifying the enemy or its motivations for seeking to destroy us. That oversight defies both common sense and past military experience, and it disarms us in what may be the most decisive theater of this conflict: the battle of ideas.

Such a breakdown may seem incredible to veterans of past military conflicts. Imagine fighting World War II without clarity about Nazism and fascism, or the Cold War without an appreciation of Soviet communism and the threat it posed.

Yet today, the civilian leaders of this country and their senior subordinates – responsible for the U.S. military, the intelligence community, homeland security and federal law enforcement – have systematically failed to fully realize that we once again face a totalitarian ideology bent on our destruction.

That failure is the more worrisome since the current ideological menace is arguably more dangerous than any we have faced in the past, for two reasons. First, its adherents believe their mission of global conquest is divinely inspired. Second, they are here in the United States in significant numbers, not just a threat elsewhere around the world.

What, then, is this ideology? It has been given many names in recent years, including political Islam, radical Islam, fundamentalist Islam, extremist Islam and Islamofascism. There is, however, a more accurate descriptor – the one its adherents use. They call it “Shariah.”

Perhaps the most important thing to understand about Shariah is that it is authoritative Islam, which presents itself as a complete way of life – cultural, political, military, social and religious, all governed by the same doctrine. In other words, this comprehensive program is not simply the agenda of extremists hunkered down in caves in Afghanistan or Pakistan. Neither can its directives be attributed to deviants hijacking Islam.

Rather, Shariah – which translates from Arabic as “path to God” – is actually binding law. It is taught as such by the most revered sacred texts, traditions, institutions, top academic centers, scholars and leaders of the Islamic faith. Fortunately, hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world do not wish to live under a brutally repressive, woman-demeaning, barbaric and totalitarian program. Such Muslims are potentially our allies, just as those who do adhere to Shariah are our unalterable foes.

The immutability of Shariah-adherent Muslim hostility toward the rest of us derives directly from the central tenet of Shariah: Muslims are explicitly required to seek the triumph of Islam over all other faiths, peoples and governments.

The ultimate objective of Shariah is the establishment of a global Islamic state – Sunni Muslims call it “the caliphate” – governed by Shariah. The means by which this political outcome is to be achieved is called “jihad.”


Read the rest here, bit lengthy but very interesting. Know thy enemy indeed.

Stealth Jihad | The American Legion | Veterans Serving Veterans
 
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The "America had 9/11 coming because of its sins" plays well to European audiences who like to see the U.S. humiliated. But in reality it is bullshit rationalizing of the highest kind. The US is the most moral country in the history of humanity and Arabs, Muslims, and anyone else ought to be kissing our tuchases in gratitude.
 
The "America had 9/11 coming because of its sins" plays well to European audiences who like to see the U.S. humiliated. But in reality it is bullshit rationalizing of the highest kind. The US is the most moral country in the history of humanity and Arabs, Muslims, and anyone else ought to be kissing our tuchases in gratitude.

From your lips to everyone's ears that thinks the US is "oppressive" because they currently don't have the right to same sex marriage, don't have an ironclad lock on elective abortion, don't have more than half the money and all the pussy, etc...

Gay activist: "Free Palestine!"
Me: "Only if you promise to move there and live under Hamas' law."
 
They might not hate us for our freedoms, but they certainly hate us for our free acts of drawing a cartoon of their religious icon, broadcasting encrypted entertainment that shows naughty bits, creating a market for their natural resources and consuming most of it, not submitting to the Caliph, occupying the same country that houses Mecca at the request of the host nation, etc.....

This is more in reference to the motivations of 9/11, which are arguably the most important motivations to understand.

The issue with most of your post above is the generalizations. SOME south Koreans are tired of us, SOME Japanese are tired of us. The inference that a whole culture doesnt like us is not factual.

The motivation for 9/11 was that Bin Laden eventually wants to be king of Saudi Arabia, and then by using that bully pulpit, the eventual ruler of a new caliphate. His goal is was to weaken the US and force it out so he could begin his takeover. Due to the oil reasources in the area he knows the US will never allow someone like him to take over without a fight.

His method was inferred from our previous reactions to attacks, Lebanon and Somalia. He noted that if we were hit hard enough we would just leave, a mis-calcuaiton on his part.
 
They might not hate us for our freedoms, but they certainly hate us for our free acts of drawing a cartoon of their religious icon, broadcasting encrypted entertainment that shows naughty bits, creating a market for their natural resources and consuming most of it, not submitting to the Caliph, occupying the same country that houses Mecca at the request of the host nation, etc.....

This is more in reference to the motivations of 9/11, which are arguably the most important motivations to understand.

The issue with most of your post above is the generalizations. SOME south Koreans are tired of us, SOME Japanese are tired of us. The inference that a whole culture doesnt like us is not factual.

The motivation for 9/11 was that Bin Laden eventually wants to be king of Saudi Arabia, and then by using that bully pulpit, the eventual ruler of a new caliphate. His goal is was to weaken the US and force it out so he could begin his takeover. Due to the oil reasources in the area he knows the US will never allow someone like him to take over without a fight.

His method was inferred from our previous reactions to attacks, Lebanon and Somalia. He noted that if we were hit hard enough we would just leave, a mis-calcuaiton on his part.

While true, Bin Laden was pretty close to getting his way.

Thank GOD the adults in charge (on both sides of the aisle) learned the lesson of the "Somalia Strategy." It didn't make a difference in the political campaigns but it certainly has been demonstrated in the last year or so.
 
What freedoms?

Sit in a cafe in Riyadh and crack open a beer and then tell us about it.

Lighten up Rabbi

He is just another right wing conserative upset that his beloved conservatives were voted out of power and now his "freedom" is gone

I couldn't care less that the Conservatives were voted out of power. They were completely neglectful of their duties.

However, Congress has made itself irrelevant. So I don't really have a representative making laws for me. Don't see I'm free it that regard.

The government no long has to comply with freedom of Information laws. So I have no freedom for acountability and the press has no freedom to find information and expose it.

Not allow to pay or not pay for my own health care. No say in whether I have it or not.

My energy prices are naturally going to skyrocket soon. Very thrilled about that, let me tell you.

Unelected Bueaucracts have more power than every before.

But, no everythings alright. Don't look behind the curtain. Nothing to see.
 

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