They Don't Care Who Has A Gun

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

He is a lot brighter than you are.

Very few guns in the US are "registered". Only in a few of the commie states is what you would call registration. Since Florida is a free state none of my 50 are and I can sell them to whoever I want to as private sales as long as I am not doing it as a business. That is called freedom.

If I bought one of my firearms from a LLC dealer then there is a record of who the dealer sold it to but it stops there. I can sell my firearm and there is no requirement to keep any record or provide any information about the sale to the authorities.

If you are going to make comments on this you really need to know what you are talking about. That way you won't look so dumb.

Bullshit. All guns purchased by a licensed dealer is in effect registered per Federal Law. Yes you can sell a firearm to whoever you want but there is a paper trail that leads to YOU and when is investigated by law enforcement is will come back to you. You moron. And no one ever said such a private sale had to be reported to the authorities. But it is illegal even in Florida to sell to a minor, a felon or a non-resident. So if you are stupid enough to sell to a anyone prohibited from legally owning a firearm, you are part of the problem.

I've co-owned a gun store for over twenty years and I currently have my FFL.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

My uncle has a rifle...he bought it from a guy who has been dead most of 20 years, who bought it from a gun shop that closed around 1990. How, EXACTLY, is there any way to trace that rifle to anyone? Be specific.
 
Lots of honest people sell to strangers. How are they risking prison just by selling a gun to someone who you have no way of knowing shouldn't be able to buy one?

Lots of people do? Then it should be easy for you to provide evidence of that.
I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

No, LIE!

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Only if they can PROVE it...which is pretty much impossible.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

No shit.

I doubt you know much of anything.

Pot, meet kettle!

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

And I'm the king of Siam. :bs1::bs1::bs1::bs1::bs1::bs1:
 
I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.


I still do not understand why , if your business is selling guns, you consent to filling out ATF 4473 - a criminal act since the federal government has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to demand that you fill out the forms.


I also do not understand how you can claim that there are individuals who are"prohibited from owning firearms"

. You are not who you claim you are.

.
Because when you get the license fro ATF you agree to do business on their terms. It's entirely voluntary.
Not really.

If you want to sell firearms in any capacity, you WILL 'voluntarily' get that license or you will be prosecuted.

I hardly call that voluntary. That does not make it necessarily incorrect, the state makes certain restriction on rights by its very nature, but to call it a voluntary association is a gross miss-characterization IMHO.
 
I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.
OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.
If it was that easy, why have you failed to provide any real proof thus far. As rabbi already stated: we are waiting....
 
You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.


I still do not understand why , if your business is selling guns, you consent to filling out ATF 4473 - a criminal act since the federal government has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to demand that you fill out the forms.


I also do not understand how you can claim that there are individuals who are"prohibited from owning firearms"

. You are not who you claim you are.

.
Because when you get the license fro ATF you agree to do business on their terms. It's entirely voluntary.
Not really.

If you want to sell firearms in any capacity, you WILL 'voluntarily' get that license or you will be prosecuted.

I hardly call that voluntary. That does not make it necessarily incorrect, the state makes certain restriction on rights by its very nature, but to call it a voluntary association is a gross miss-characterization IMHO.
Not entirely true. You can sell firearms in any capacity as long as your intent is not to make a profit. That is ATF's definition of dealer. Once you want to make a profit then you have to get the license etc etc. But if you arent interested in that, no license required. I have one customer who must buy and sell a hundred guns a year. But he is medically retired and this is basically entertainment for him.
 
Another way these criminals get guns is to have their girlfriends go in and buy them legally.
Well, its not legal if they do that. But I get the idea. Yes that happens and again no way to prevent that.
Let me rephrase. Another way these criminals acquire guns is to have their girlfriends buy them with legal paperwork.
Your rephrase is meaningless. It is still an illegal act. Not for the gun store mind you, that is something that they cannot prove UNLESS they admit that she told them the weapon was for someone else.
What you are describing is a straw purchase and is a major hole in any background check law - one that cannot be plugged in any meaningful form.

The paperwork might be kosher but buying a gun for someone else is not. Of course, proving it is damn near impossible unless the purchaser is an idiot and tells the police it was a straw purchase.
 
Another way these criminals get guns is to have their girlfriends go in and buy them legally.
Well, its not legal if they do that. But I get the idea. Yes that happens and again no way to prevent that.
Let me rephrase. Another way these criminals acquire guns is to have their girlfriends buy them with legal paperwork.
Your rephrase is meaningless. It is still an illegal act. Not for the gun store mind you, that is something that they cannot prove UNLESS they admit that she told them the weapon was for someone else.
What you are describing is a straw purchase and is a major hole in any background check law - one that cannot be plugged in any meaningful form.

The paperwork might be kosher but buying a gun for someone else is not. Of course, proving it is damn near impossible unless the purchaser is an idiot and tells the police it was a straw purchase.
You'd be shocked how often I got that question: Can my girl friend buy this for me? Seriously. The only reason people get caught doing straw purchases is because they are stupid.
 
Another way these criminals get guns is to have their girlfriends go in and buy them legally.
Well, its not legal if they do that. But I get the idea. Yes that happens and again no way to prevent that.
Let me rephrase. Another way these criminals acquire guns is to have their girlfriends buy them with legal paperwork.
Your rephrase is meaningless. It is still an illegal act. Not for the gun store mind you, that is something that they cannot prove UNLESS they admit that she told them the weapon was for someone else.
What you are describing is a straw purchase and is a major hole in any background check law - one that cannot be plugged in any meaningful form.

The paperwork might be kosher but buying a gun for someone else is not. Of course, proving it is damn near impossible unless the purchaser is an idiot and tells the police it was a straw purchase.
You'd be shocked how often I got that question: Can my girl friend buy this for me? Seriously. The only reason people get caught doing straw purchases is because they are stupid.
LOL. I probably would not be surprised.

The truth is that all crime is pretty much the same thing - most people are convicted not because the cops do such a wonderful job in investigating but because people are idiots when it comes to dealing with them. They tend to say all kinds of things when they should keep their mouth shut or give the police mountains of evidence thinking it will help them out. Good thing criminals are not to bright or understand their rights though - it what puts them in jail :D
 
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.


I still do not understand why , if your business is selling guns, you consent to filling out ATF 4473 - a criminal act since the federal government has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to demand that you fill out the forms.


I also do not understand how you can claim that there are individuals who are"prohibited from owning firearms"

. You are not who you claim you are.

.
Because when you get the license fro ATF you agree to do business on their terms. It's entirely voluntary.
Not really.

If you want to sell firearms in any capacity, you WILL 'voluntarily' get that license or you will be prosecuted.

I hardly call that voluntary. That does not make it necessarily incorrect, the state makes certain restriction on rights by its very nature, but to call it a voluntary association is a gross miss-characterization IMHO.
Not entirely true. You can sell firearms in any capacity as long as your intent is not to make a profit. That is ATF's definition of dealer. Once you want to make a profit then you have to get the license etc etc. But if you arent interested in that, no license required. I have one customer who must buy and sell a hundred guns a year. But he is medically retired and this is basically entertainment for him.
Interesting. I was unaware of that legal line. It makes sense though and would allow people like your customer to be a hobbyist without asinine licensing requirements.

I still would not call it voluntary though - it is a condition of being in business. Like I said that does not make it incorrect on its own and it is another debate all together.
 
You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.
OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.
If it was that easy, why have you failed to provide any real proof thus far. As rabbi already stated: we are waiting....

You'll be waiting for a long time. There are plenty of cases of people being arrested for selling guns illegally. You idiots are stupid if you don't think it happens.
 
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^ Progressive government and unarmed citizens
 
A few questions for you.

A man walks into a convenience store carrying a 38. He picks up a loaf of bread, and a gallon of milk and walks to the counter. Next, he shoots the clerk and takes the money from the cash register and runs.

1. The NRA spends millions fighting for him to be able to carry that gun into the store, so do they have any responsibility for the shooting when they know some of the people they are fighting for will shoot the clerk?

2. At exactly what point does the NRA stop calling him a good guy with a gun?

3. If he gets away, will the NRA continue calling him a good guy with a gun the next time he walks into a store?

^ Lying fuckwad
 
A few questions for you.

A man walks into a convenience store carrying a 38. He picks up a loaf of bread, and a gallon of milk and walks to the counter. Next, he shoots the clerk and takes the money from the cash register and runs.

1. The NRA spends millions fighting for him to be able to carry that gun into the store, so do they have any responsibility for the shooting when they know some of the people they are fighting for will shoot the clerk?

2. At exactly what point does the NRA stop calling him a good guy with a gun?

3. If he gets away, will the NRA continue calling him a good guy with a gun the next time he walks into a store?

Man, you're some kind of special nutjob :cuckoo:
 
Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.
OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.
If it was that easy, why have you failed to provide any real proof thus far. As rabbi already stated: we are waiting....

You'll be waiting for a long time. There are plenty of cases of people being arrested for selling guns illegally. You idiots are stupid if you don't think it happens.
Move the goalposts much?
The claim was that you will be arrested if you unknowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person. Since you claim that happens all the time you shouldnt have trouble finding one case.
 

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