They are already dying

[LilOlLady]

THEY ARE ALREADY DYING

IFW.org’s commercial claim if we pass HC reform million will lose their HC and thousand of women with breast cancer will die. Guess what IFW.org, 45 million do not have HC to lose and blacks and other minorities who don have HC, cannot afford it is already dying from cancer and other disease because they cannot see a doctor early enough. They cannot afford private HC and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid.

 

[del]

you can't start a thread about the same topic in more than one subforum. your other thread has been deleted. thanks.

 

[toomuchtime_]

THEY ARE ALREADY DYING

IFW.org’s commercial claim if we pass HC reform million will lose their HC and thousand of women with breast cancer will die. Guess what IFW.org, 45 million do not have HC to lose and blacks and other minorities who don have HC, cannot afford it is already dying from cancer and other disease because they cannot see a doctor early enough. They cannot afford private HC and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid.

Everyone can afford to get routine medical care at federally funded health care clinics that are virtually everywhere,

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

as well as a variety of privately funded free and sliding scale clinics in all metropolitan areas. The gap in coverage in our system is for catastrophic care. So if you can't afford health insurance, you can still get well patient check ups at these clinics, but if they show you have a serious cancer, you will have to decide if you want to live bad enough to spend down your assets so you can qualify for Medicaid.

 

[AllieBaba]

Exactly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

THEY ARE ALREADY DYING

IFW.org’s commercial claim if we pass HC reform million will lose their HC and thousand of women with breast cancer will die. Guess what IFW.org, 45 million do not have HC to lose and blacks and other minorities who don have HC, cannot afford it is already dying from cancer and other disease because they cannot see a doctor early enough. They cannot afford private HC and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid.

This is me, searching frantically in your post for anything other than your word for it. Y'know, this tiny little thing rational adults like to call "proof". Show me 45 million Americans - or even American residents - who do not have health care, cannot afford healthcare AND do not qualify for Medicare or Medicaid, and/or are dying because they can't see a doctor soon enough. Put your evidence where your fat mouth is.

 

[veritas]

IFW?

Inland Fisheries and Wildlife?

It's all I got.........

 

[Big Black Dog]

45 million? More than half that number are illegal aliens. 1/4 of that number are liars because they don't want to spend their money for health care. Would rather somebody give it to them for free. The rest are probably legit. As somebody mentioned above, there are Federally Funded Health Clinics that would love to be of service to you with very little or no charge at all. There's one in Rockford, IL, I know. It's called the Crusader Clinic. Like you asked, put up or shut up. Your bluff has been called.

 

[Political Junky]

THEY ARE ALREADY DYING

IFW.org’s commercial claim if we pass HC reform million will lose their HC and thousand of women with breast cancer will die. Guess what IFW.org, 45 million do not have HC to lose and blacks and other minorities who don have HC, cannot afford it is already dying from cancer and other disease because they cannot see a doctor early enough. They cannot afford private HC and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid.

Everyone can afford to get routine medical care at federally funded health care clinics that are virtually everywhere,

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

as well as a variety of privately funded free and sliding scale clinics in all metropolitan areas. The gap in coverage in our system is for catastrophic care. So if you can't afford health insurance, you can still get well patient check ups at these clinics, but if they show you have a serious cancer, you will have to decide if you want to live bad enough to spend down your assets so you can qualify for Medicaid.

And you think that's a good thing?

 

[toomuchtime_]

THEY ARE ALREADY DYING

IFW.org’s commercial claim if we pass HC reform million will lose their HC and thousand of women with breast cancer will die. Guess what IFW.org, 45 million do not have HC to lose and blacks and other minorities who don have HC, cannot afford it is already dying from cancer and other disease because they cannot see a doctor early enough. They cannot afford private HC and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid.

Everyone can afford to get routine medical care at federally funded health care clinics that are virtually everywhere,

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

as well as a variety of privately funded free and sliding scale clinics in all metropolitan areas. The gap in coverage in our system is for catastrophic care. So if you can't afford health insurance, you can still get well patient check ups at these clinics, but if they show you have a serious cancer, you will have to decide if you want to live bad enough to spend down your assets so you can qualify for Medicaid.

And you think that's a good thing?

Of course not, but neither is it the dire situation described in the post I was responding to. Our health care system has serious problems, just as every other health care system does, but it is not the kind of crisis Obama and others dishonestly claimed it was to justify to ram a an ill considered bill through Congress.

 

[veritas]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

They are both very serious problems and need to be addressed, but neither constitutes a crisis that has to be solved before the 2010 campaigns begin. The plans before Congress fail to address the cost of our present health care system, and according to the CBO would make them worse. If we can't afford our present system, how can we afford one that will cost even more?

 

[auditor0007]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

If you think that is staggering, just wait around another twenty years. Our kids are going to love us for not addressing this problem in a serious manner as that 17.6 % of GDP doubles.

 

[veritas]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

They are both very serious problems and need to be addressed, but neither constitutes a crisis that has to be solved before the 2010 campaigns begin. The plans before Congress fail to address the cost of our present health care system, and according to the CBO would make them worse. If we can't afford our present system, how can we afford one that will cost even more?

I say it IS a crisis. You say it is a political issue. Transparent.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

They are both very serious problems and need to be addressed, but neither constitutes a crisis that has to be solved before the 2010 campaigns begin. The plans before Congress fail to address the cost of our present health care system, and according to the CBO would make them worse. If we can't afford our present system, how can we afford one that will cost even more?

I say it IS a crisis. You say it is a political issue. Transparent.

Well, if you do believe it is a crisis, then you must believe the bills before Congress would make it a worse crisis since they will make our health care system even more expensive than the one we can't afford now. So basically we seem to be in agreement that we need to scrap the plans before Congress and start rethinking how to address the cost and coverage problems in our health care system.

 

[veritas]

They are both very serious problems and need to be addressed, but neither constitutes a crisis that has to be solved before the 2010 campaigns begin. The plans before Congress fail to address the cost of our present health care system, and according to the CBO would make them worse. If we can't afford our present system, how can we afford one that will cost even more?

I say it IS a crisis. You say it is a political issue. Transparent.

Well, if you do believe it is a crisis, then you must believe the bills before Congress would make it a worse crisis since they will make our health care system even more expensive than the one we can't afford now. So basically we seem to be in agreement that we need to scrap the plans before Congress and start rethinking how to address the cost and coverage problems in our health care system.

er........no, I don't agree with you at all. There are lots of things that address the rising costs in the [not yet bills]. You republicants have been sending yourselves off on drag hunts with death panels and rationing and histrionics.........

 

[Emma]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

It's unsustainable. No two ways about it.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I say it IS a crisis. You say it is a political issue. Transparent.

Well, if you do believe it is a crisis, then you must believe the bills before Congress would make it a worse crisis since they will make our health care system even more expensive than the one we can't afford now. So basically we seem to be in agreement that we need to scrap the plans before Congress and start rethinking how to address the cost and coverage problems in our health care system.

er........no, I don't agree with you at all. There are lots of things that address the rising costs in the [not yet bills]. You republicants have been sending yourselves off on drag hunts with death panels and rationing and histrionics.........

You may want to believe there are lots of things that address the rising costs of health care in the bills but the CBO couldn't find them. The truth is that this administration, which got into office by promising transformative change it couldn't deliver, sold out the interests of the American people and the American economy for the potential political benefits of passing a bill before the 2010 election campaigns began instead of trying to find a bill that would honestly and effectively address the problems of cost and coverage in our health care system.

Instead of honestly addressing concerns about the costs of the bills,

1. that the reforms such as standard rate coverage for those with pre existing conditions, continuation of coverage if a patient stops paying premiums because of loss of income due to illness and caps on out of pocket expenses will cause health insurance premiums to increase for everyone who nows has insurance, perhaps forcing some of them to drop their coverage and making the cost of covering those now uninsured more expensive than current estimates,

2. that the ongoing costs of the reforms and the subsidies will increase already dangerously high deficits,

3. that raising the eligibility for Medicaid to 150% of the poverty level will increase Medicaid rolls by more than 50%, forcing states that are already struggling to stay solvent to face financial ruin or drastic increases in taxes or cutbacks in services,

4. that since there is good reason to think rationing of health care services might be used to keep costs down, how do we keep the process transparent enough to for voters to understand exactly what they might be losing or gaining,

the Obama administration has sought support for its policies by exploiting partisan tensions, vilifying Republicans and insurance companies, and by implication, the state governments that presently regulate insurance companies, trying to sell the idea that if you question the bills Obama/Dems propose you are opposed to any health reform.

 

[veritas]

Well, if you do believe it is a crisis, then you must believe the bills before Congress would make it a worse crisis since they will make our health care system even more expensive than the one we can't afford now. So basically we seem to be in agreement that we need to scrap the plans before Congress and start rethinking how to address the cost and coverage problems in our health care system.

er........no, I don't agree with you at all. There are lots of things that address the rising costs in the [not yet bills]. You republicants have been sending yourselves off on drag hunts with death panels and rationing and histrionics.........

You may want to believe there are lots of things that address the rising costs of health care in the bills but the CBO couldn't find them. The truth is that this administration, which got into office by promising transformative change it couldn't deliver, sold out the interests of the American people and the American economy for the potential political benefits of passing a bill before the 2010 election campaigns began instead of trying to find a bill that would honestly and effectively address the problems of cost and coverage in our health care system.

We want change. The potential benefits have nothing to do with 2010. You had the shrub and the two wars which will cost 5 times more than the healthcare reforms.

Instead of honestly addressing concerns about the costs of the bills,

1. that the reforms such as standard rate coverage for those with pre existing conditions, continuation of coverage if a patient stops paying premiums because of loss of income due to illness and caps on out of pocket expenses will cause health insurance premiums to increase for everyone who nows has insurance, perhaps forcing some of them to drop their coverage and making the cost of covering those now uninsured more expensive than current estimates,

And? If somebody is sick and can't pay the premiums government is already on the hook. I have a hard time mustering sympathy for insurance companies. They wrecked the economy.

2. that the ongoing costs of the reforms and the subsidies will increase already dangerously high deficits,

The deficits will get even bigger if we don't.

3. that raising the eligibility for Medicaid to 150% of the poverty level will increase Medicaid rolls by more than 50%, forcing states that are already struggling to stay solvent to face financial ruin or drastic increases in taxes or cutbacks in services,

Medicaid would be replaced by a public option and will not be run piecemeal.

4. that since there is good reason to think rationing of health care services might be used to keep costs down, how do we keep the process transparent enough to for voters to understand exactly what they might be losing or gaining,

The transparency is only limited to your ability and willingness to avail yourself of the information you want. The attention these [not yet bills] have received before even being voted out of committee is unusual to say the least.

the Obama administration has sought support for its policies by exploiting partisan tensions, vilifying Republicans and insurance companies, and by implication, the state governments that presently regulate insurance companies, trying to sell the idea that if you question the bills Obama/Dems propose you are opposed to any health reform.

Exploiting partisan tensions? That never happens. >insert sarcasm< Vilifying Republicans? They should be vilified. They haven't addressed one issue without resorting to lying and ridiculous hyperbole. The Republicans ARE opposed to any health reform or insurance reform. It's patently obvious. Now the bill is too long, it's too complicated, it's being rushed. Ya'll are full of it. Regulation of insurance is an oxymoron, Insurance regulates the government. It does what it wants and skims a huge amount off the top. Which was fine when your 401ks were making money and your house went up in value, but now that is not the case. I see no reason to support their malfeasance any longer.

 

[Valerie]

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

And even more staggering.....at least 30% of that spending is administrative cost!

 

[veritas]

Well, if you do believe it is a crisis, then you must believe the bills before Congress would make it a worse crisis since they will make our health care system even more expensive than the one we can't afford now. So basically we seem to be in agreement that we need to scrap the plans before Congress and start rethinking how to address the cost and coverage problems in our health care system.

er........no, I don't agree with you at all. There are lots of things that address the rising costs in the [not yet bills]. You republicants have been sending yourselves off on drag hunts with death panels and rationing and histrionics.........

You may want to believe there are lots of things that address the rising costs of health care in the bills but the CBO couldn't find them. The truth is that this administration, which got into office by promising transformative change it couldn't deliver, sold out the interests of the American people and the American economy for the potential political benefits of passing a bill before the 2010 election campaigns began instead of trying to find a bill that would honestly and effectively address the problems of cost and coverage in our health care system.

Instead of honestly addressing concerns about the costs of the bills,

1. that the reforms such as standard rate coverage for those with pre existing conditions, continuation of coverage if a patient stops paying premiums because of loss of income due to illness and caps on out of pocket expenses will cause health insurance premiums to increase for everyone who nows has insurance, perhaps forcing some of them to drop their coverage and making the cost of covering those now uninsured more expensive than current estimates,

2. that the ongoing costs of the reforms and the subsidies will increase already dangerously high deficits,

3. that raising the eligibility for Medicaid to 150% of the poverty level will increase Medicaid rolls by more than 50%, forcing states that are already struggling to stay solvent to face financial ruin or drastic increases in taxes or cutbacks in services,

4. that since there is good reason to think rationing of health care services might be used to keep costs down, how do we keep the process transparent enough to for voters to understand exactly what they might be losing or gaining,

the Obama administration has sought support for its policies by exploiting partisan tensions, vilifying Republicans and insurance companies, and by implication, the state governments that presently regulate insurance companies, trying to sell the idea that if you question the bills Obama/Dems propose you are opposed to any health reform.

It's pretty bad at 17.6 % of our GDP, and it doesn't accommodate everybody. So that's bad.


For every 100k of income, 17.6k goes for health care.

That's staggering.

And even more staggering.....at least 30% of that spending is administrative cost!

And the VA and Medicare run at 3% administrative costs.............

And the 30% of the costs with private insurance does not take into account the administrative costs put on the providers to deal with their convoluted BS.