There's this thing Called Sprinkler systems...

[justoffal]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

 

[martybegan]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

 

[rightwinger]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

 

[Marion Morrison]

They'll be lucky if they can recreate the structure. The skills used back then are not readily available in modern times.

There will be wood-bending and carving and stained-glass making.

 

[Crepitus]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Looks like electrical short in the area being remodeled.

 

[justoffal]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

 

[Jackson]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

I heard that it too,k an hour for the FD to get to the fire....

 

[justoffal]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Looks like electrical short in the area being remodeled.

And there you go..... A bad tool...an old extension cord...an untrained workman.

SPRINKLER SYSTEMS WORK!

....man that just pisses me off!

Jo

 

[martybegan]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

 

[justoffal]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

I heard that it too,k an hour for the FD to get to the fire....

They couldn't find it....another thing that a modern panel system fixes.. it tells you where to look! GAWD this stuff pisses me off!!!

 

[Crepitus]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

My understanding is that they are planning on some materiels changes and treatments to help with that. Hopefully a suppression system is in the planes as well.

 

[martybegan]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Looks like electrical short in the area being remodeled.

And there you go..... A bad tool...an old extension cord...an untrained workman.

SPRINKLER SYSTEMS WORK!

....man that just pisses me off!

Jo

Sprinklers work in certain situations.

To adequately douse wood that old, and that much of it would probably require 1 ft diameter mains at multiple locations.

And it would have to be a manual system, because of the use of combustibles in ceremonies and worship in the structure.

 

[Jackson]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

I heard that it too,k an hour for the FD to get to the fire....

They couldn't find it....another thing that a modern panel system fixes.. it tells you where to look! GAWD this stuff pisses me off!!!

They couldn't find the NOTRE DAME CATHEDRAL????? Oh come on, I've heard weak excuses in the past, but that is a doozy.

 

[Muhammed]

They'll be lucky if they can recreate the structure. The skills used back then are not readily available in modern times.

There will be wood-bending and carving and stained-glass making.

There's plenty of people who can do that.

The massive pipe organ will be the most difficult thing to replace. I wonder how much damage was done to that.

 

[martybegan]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

My understanding is that they are planning on some materiels changes and treatments to help with that. Hopefully a suppression system is in the planes as well.

Even when re-constructing something this old, it is far easier to add the system as part of the design than to try to slap one into an existing and in this case, ancient structure.

I would think they would go with old school materials for the work, but this would now be "fresh" wood, that wouldn't become dried out again for centuries.

 

[justoffal]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

It's not that difficult dude....trust me all it would have taken is a pressurized chase pipe
In the peak points...not hard to install or to operate. My guess is they couldn't work out the aesthetics....it would be ugly looking.

Jo

 

[Crepitus]

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

My understanding is that they are planning on some materiels changes and treatments to help with that. Hopefully a suppression system is in the planes as well.

Even when re-constructing something this old, it is far easier to add the system as part of the design than to try to slap one into an existing and in this case, ancient structure.

I would think they would go with old school materials for the work, but this would now be "fresh" wood, that wouldn't become dried out again for centuries.

Heard people talking about fire retardant treatments for wood and the possibility of some composites on the news today.

But I'm certainly not any sort of expert on this kinda thing, I'm just talking about what I heard.

 

[martybegan]

Sometimes the government knows what it's talking about. I realize that too many regulations can be stifiling. But folks some of them are there for a reason. Fires have been around for a long time and long before the thought of terrorists using it to make a point whole cities have burned down because no one took the time to put some effort into prevention.

A huge, sprawling structure lke Notre Dame Cathedral is a perfect example. IMO it was arson....but just for a moment let's stop and consider the alternatives... A workman's magnifying glass left out of his tool box in an area where the sun can reach it. For twenty minutes the sun shines through it to the 500 year old, super dried out timber floor, (practically a natural book of matches) underneath it and poof.....you have a blaze. For less than a million bucks a decent system of sprinklers with computer location panels could have easily been installed that would have stopped this thing in it's tracks.

Let's hope they do that on the rebuild eh?

I'm just sayin....

JO

Retrofitting modern fire safety equipment into a structure that old and that large is never easy.

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

I heard that it too,k an hour for the FD to get to the fire....

Honestly they could have gotten there in 5 minutes and the outcome would probably be the same. They have equipment designed to fight fires in modern structures, not ancient buildings.

It's a question of designing equipment to fight the fires you most commonly see. When you get your worst case scenarios, you are required to improvise.

 

[martybegan]

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

My understanding is that they are planning on some materiels changes and treatments to help with that. Hopefully a suppression system is in the planes as well.

Even when re-constructing something this old, it is far easier to add the system as part of the design than to try to slap one into an existing and in this case, ancient structure.

I would think they would go with old school materials for the work, but this would now be "fresh" wood, that wouldn't become dried out again for centuries.

Heard people talking about fire retardant treatments for wood and the possibility of some composites on the news today.

But I'm certainly not any sort of expert on this kinda thing, I'm just talking about what I heard.

Retardants sound good, but they decay over time, and you end up with what you had before, dried old wood.

Even using "clean" wood would probably make what happened impossible for decades on, because the wood wouldn't be "dry"

 

[justoffal]

The right is spinning these stories about how inept French fire fighting is.
Our President has helped spread the rumors with his fire fighting helicopter claims. The French fire fighters were heroic in saving as much as they did

I am sure the French had as much fire suppression systems in the cathedral as they could without impacting the structure. Only so much you can do with rafters over 500 years old

Actually I was listening to a program this morning and was shocked to discover that they had nothing. Now that just pisses me off.

Jo

Again, the problem is getting a functional system into a structure like that. It's easy to slap in a couple of panels and run some small pipe into the building to give the impression of a fire suppression system, but all that does is give a false sense of security.

Installing a viable system for a building of that size and configuration would require massive amounts of water to be thrown about in patterns never considered in modern building construction. Modern structures don't have roof configurations that allowed the blaze to happen, nor are made of centuries old wood that is basically kindling in waiting.

My understanding is that they are planning on some materiels changes and treatments to help with that. Hopefully a suppression system is in the planes as well.

Even when re-constructing something this old, it is far easier to add the system as part of the design than to try to slap one into an existing and in this case, ancient structure.

I would think they would go with old school materials for the work, but this would now be "fresh" wood, that wouldn't become dried out again for centuries.

Heard people talking about fire retardant treatments for wood and the possibility of some composites on the news today.

But I'm certainly not any sort of expert on this kinda thing, I'm just talking about what I heard.

Yeah I mean shit...you don't have to be an expert....anything at all would have helped
I am in utter disbelief that there was NOTHING. It's just inexcusable!

Jo