There's that secession crap again

No other country will take us. We tried. My husband was laid off for 3 years. Japan won't take us, Canada won't even take us. We are too old for Australia and we don't have doctorates for New Zealand. In fact, ours is the only country in the world that allows low and unskilled laborers in to compete with their own citizens.

There is nothing more American than abandoning a government that refuses to represent you and instituting a new one that will represent you.

I'm quite certain Cuba and Venezuela would take you. Russia might, China... who knows? Pay enough denero in central America I'm sure you can live happy for a long time. Lots of proto socialist nations down there. I hear that the Panama Canal Zone is nice now that China runs it.
 
Texas-v-White, 74 U.S. 700 page 727
"When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."
 
As to the constitutionality of succession, the United States Supreme court in Texas-v-White ruled that unilateral succession is unconstitutional.

1. They did no such thing. They ruled that it was not explicitly allowed under the Constitution.

2. The notion that it is unconstitutional is irrelevant. If a state rules that they do not want to be a part of the United States, they are also agreeing that they do not want to be bound by the Constitution.

The kitty has some claws. Good reply
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

That is meant to say that the nation itself is a single nation. If a state leaves the nation, that nation is still indivisible, but that state is no longer a part of the nation.
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

OH it's one nation now? The current administration seems to want to divide the people. But just how far would you allow the government to stripe away your rights?
I haven't had any of my rights 'striped'. Or stripped. And neither have you.
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

That is meant to say that the nation itself is a single nation. If a state leaves the nation, that nation is still indivisible, but that state is no longer a part of the nation.
No, it means one nation, indivisible. Which means one nation, undivided.
 
When that nation ceases to be recognizable, all bets are off.

Or at least, that's what it says in the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

That is meant to say that the nation itself is a single nation. If a state leaves the nation, that nation is still indivisible, but that state is no longer a part of the nation.
No, it means one nation, indivisible. Which means one nation, undivided.

Yes. Meaning, if you fuck with one state, you fuck with them all. That doesn't change if one of those states leaves, it just means that state no longer has that protection, so to speak.
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

OH it's one nation now? The current administration seems to want to divide the people. But just how far would you allow the government to stripe away your rights?

If you don't like them you are free to vote them out of power. That is the way our nation works. Only losers quit when things don't go their way
 
As to the constitutionality of succession, the United States Supreme court in Texas-v-White ruled that unilateral succession is unconstitutional.

1. They did no such thing. They ruled that it was not explicitly allowed under the Constitution.

2. The notion that it is unconstitutional is irrelevant. If a state rules that they do not want to be a part of the United States, they are also agreeing that they do not want to be bound by the Constitution.

The kitty has some claws. Good reply
Ok, if the constitutionality is irrelevant then it comes down to force. And Abe Lincoln backed that up in the “War between the States.” If a state succeeds they will be “occupied” by Federal forces. People do not have the same loyalty to states today that they had back in the 1800’s. This is all a “tempest in a teapot” that the politicians are using to stir things up. Never going to happen!
 
Yeah, let's hear what Arizona has to say about federal protection.

That was the other condition of supporting the nation...the federal government's ONLY JOB is to PROTECT us. That's it. The other stuff is sometimes nice, but not necessary. The federal government exists at our behest. When the fed gov't ceases to protect us and starts to try to RULE us, use us and control us, it's time to get rid of the existing government and replace it with one that is acceptable.
 
Demanding elected representation is a legitimate reason to become a traitor against a repressive monarch. On the flip side, when every citizen enjoys the benefits of full representation and you try to secede you're attempting to destroy both democracy and the constitutional rights of the citizens in your state. That's not justifiable.

"Full representation" was a joke, right?

And why is it up to you to decide what acts of treason are justifiable and what are not? If the people of a state collectively decide that they are no longer interested in belonging to the United States, they have that right. If their ideals are so far outside the ideals of the rest of the country, they should not be forced to participate.

That's the current problem with the US right now: we have too many groups wanting to do too many things differently. We are TOO big and TOO different to operate under a single government. That's why certain powers are supposed to rest with the states, because states are more representative of the people who live in them. We would function much better if the United States was dissolved, smaller governments were formed in different regions, and we all functioned together economically and militarily. It works well for the European Union.

The truth is: what is good for California is not good for Texas, and neither should be forced to accept the ideals of the other. But that doesn't mean they can't work together, either.

Can you show where States have a right to secede?

Must be written somewhere

Leberals loved using this document during the healthcare BS, as to why the government has a right to mandate healthcare policies.
Well this same document is more for a reson of desoving this current government then it was for government healthcare control. This certain document starts off by talking about ANY GOVERNMENT.


IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
 
They signed the Constitution, their citizens are citizens of the United States not their individual state

If I no longer want to be a citizen, I can move to another country. That's not illegal. Why would it be illegal for me to declare that I am a citizen of Arkansas and not the United States if, for instance, Arkansas were to secede?

But I like how you are focusing on this part of my post and ignoring the big picture I was presenting. We, as a society, would function better under several smaller governments than a single government. You want to force the conservatives to live under your ideals, they want to force you to live under their ideals. Why can't we let the ideals rules in the areas where they are predominant, and people can choose to live wherever they find their ideals best matched?

Operate more effectiely as 50 separate states? Are you batshit crazy? Do you know how much duplication of services there would be? 50 monetary systems, 50 Armies, Interstate squabbling

You would send us back to the stone age with feifdoms
 
You want to force the conservatives to live under your ideals, they want to force you to live under their ideals.

That is why our Constitution has elections. If your side loses, you are not forced to do anything. "We the People" have just decided on a different direction for the country
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

OH it's one nation now? The current administration seems to want to divide the people. But just how far would you allow the government to stripe away your rights?

If you don't like them you are free to vote them out of power. That is the way our nation works. Only losers quit when things don't go their way

That's a nice sentiment. The truth is there should be no "losers." We are all too different, and there are some things that are just NOT reconcilable. We are too big and too diverse to be governed under a single set of laws. That IS why the states were meant to hold powers, but the government has been slowing degrading those powers for decades.
 
1. They did no such thing. They ruled that it was not explicitly allowed under the constitution.

2. The notion that it is unconstitutional is irrelevant. If a state rules that they do not want to be a part of the united states, they are also agreeing that they do not want to be bound by the constitution.

the kitty has some claws. Good reply
ok, if the constitutionality is irrelevant then it comes down to force. And abe lincoln backed that up in the “war between the states.” if a state succeeds they will be “occupied” by federal forces. People do not have the same loyalty to states today that they had back in the 1800’s. This is all a “tempest in a teapot” that the politicians are using to stir things up. Never going to happen!

have you ever heard of the 3 percenters?
 
One nation, INDIVISIBLE.

It's amazing how many idiots don't actually understand what that means.

OH it's one nation now? The current administration seems to want to divide the people. But just how far would you allow the government to stripe away your rights?

If you don't like them you are free to vote them out of power. That is the way our nation works. Only losers quit when things don't go their way

The thing is, when you have a corrupt regime, you might not get the opportunity to vote people out of power. When you have an admin that blatantly taunts, ridicules and antagonizes the people, when you have rampant voter fraud and dirty dealings, and you wait too long...you may not be provided the opportunity to vote them out of office.

That's almost where we are now. People are waiting to see if we are able to clear the air between now and the end of the next presidential election. Hopefully everything will go well and we will be able to get rid of the people who are driving our country into the dirt.

But I really think we're going to see things we've never seen in this country before. It's starting in Arizona and I think it will get worse.

Hopefully everything will be fine. But it's naive to assume that you can maintain a republic and freedom without EVER having to fight for it within your own borders.
 

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