There was nothing wrong with the U.S. government in 2008

[Care4all]

Do not include war spending? that lie still going around
lets look at the numbers

United States Department of Defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
$548.8 billion 2007 total

Much of the costs of the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war until FY2008 have been funded through supplemental appropriations or emergency supplemental appropriations, which are treated differently than regular appropriations bills. Senior congressional leaders have contended that those war costs, as much as possible, should go through the regular budget process, which provides for greater transparency. Determining the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is complex. CBO has estimated that "war-related defense activities" in 2007 were "roughly $115 billion." (CBO, The Budget and Economic Outlook: An Update, August 2007, Box 1-1, available at <http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=8565&type=0>) See Below for total defense spending.

2007 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now one can assume different reasons why GWB did this. Defending this country is a constitutional mandate
Well fare is not
same year we spent $294.0 billion in well fare and UE (UE is funded and have a bigger issue with it being put with well fare)
thats our deficit X 2 for the year

Ue is funded by employers in 2007....it was not until 2009 that the money collected from employers ran out...you are showing what was spent on UE in 2007 JR but you are not including what the employers gave the federal gvt to pay for it.


National debt added in 2007 was $554 billion


beginning National Debt 09/29/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23

ending National Debt 10/01/2007 9,062,552,400,356.63

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

your defict says 161 billion for 2007 on your link yet we added $550 BILLION to the National Debt.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT!

How do we grade a presidents policy if you look at total debt vs budget deficits?
It took 2.73 trillion to run our country in 2007, we took in 2.57 for the year. That is all that congress and the president for that year can control, for the year that is what it took to run the federal govt

Debt

The United States public debt is the money borrowed by the federal government of the United States at any one time through the issue of securities by the Treasury and other federal government agencies. The US national public debt consists of two components:
Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments.[1]
Intragovernment debt comprises Treasury securities held in accounts administered by the federal government, such as the Social Security Trust Fund.
Public debt increases or decreases as a result of the annual unified budget deficit or surplus. The federal government budget deficit or surplus is the cash difference between government receipts and spending, ignoring intra-governmental transfers. However, there is certain spending (supplemental appropriations) that add to the debt but are excluded from the deficit. The deficit is presented on a cash rather than an accruals basis, although the accrual basis may provide more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations.[2]
The public debt has increased by over $500 billion each year since fiscal year (FY) 2003, with increases of $1 trillion in FY2008, $1.9 trillion in FY2009, and $1.7 trillion in FY2010.[3] As of October 22, 2011, the gross debt was $14.94 trillion, of which $10.20 trillion was held by the public and $4.74 trillion was intragovernmental holdings.[4] The annual gross domestic product (GDP) to the end of June 2011 was $15.003 trillion (July 29, 2011 estimate),[5] with total public debt outstanding at a ratio of 99.6% of GDP, and debt held by the public at 68% of GDP.
In the United States, there continues to be disagreement between Democrats and Republicans regarding the United States debt. On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."[6]

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


from the Washington post
UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.
The Truth about Obama's Budget Deficits, in Pictures

i'm fine with saying that the iraq and afghan wars were not in the regular budget process for the Defense budget but were added as supplemental spending.

what i have a problem with is the 550 trillion added to the national debt that year.....

yet the budget deficit SAYS it was only $161 billion and you guys acting like this is something great......... the Bush Budget for 2007 collected nearly 350 billion in social security surplus money that helped that budget look so GOOOOOOD, but in reality, this money was spent and borrowed in the budget process bringing our national debt higher and higher.....

I agree that under Obama, deficits/national debt has gotten worse....but I do not give the bush administration any kind of pass or applause for what they did, during the good economic times of this country....adding over $6 trillion to our national debt, is NOT something to praise or defend.....imho.

Your deficit numbers DO NOT TELL the whole picture, and you know it...especially now that you have posted what the national debt really is....you should know it.

the federal gvt did not spend only 2.7 trillion to run our country in 2007

they spent 3.25 trillion in 2007 when you add what had to be borrowed to run our gvt.....

 

[Dr.Drock]

Ue is funded by employers in 2007....it was not until 2009 that the money collected from employers ran out...you are showing what was spent on UE in 2007 JR but you are not including what the employers gave the federal gvt to pay for it.


National debt added in 2007 was $554 billion


beginning National Debt 09/29/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23

ending National Debt 10/01/2007 9,062,552,400,356.63

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

your defict says 161 billion for 2007 on your link yet we added $550 BILLION to the National Debt.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT!

How do we grade a presidents policy if you look at total debt vs budget deficits?
It took 2.73 trillion to run our country in 2007, we took in 2.57 for the year. That is all that congress and the president for that year can control, for the year that is what it took to run the federal govt

Debt

The United States public debt is the money borrowed by the federal government of the United States at any one time through the issue of securities by the Treasury and other federal government agencies. The US national public debt consists of two components:
Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments.[1]
Intragovernment debt comprises Treasury securities held in accounts administered by the federal government, such as the Social Security Trust Fund.
Public debt increases or decreases as a result of the annual unified budget deficit or surplus. The federal government budget deficit or surplus is the cash difference between government receipts and spending, ignoring intra-governmental transfers. However, there is certain spending (supplemental appropriations) that add to the debt but are excluded from the deficit. The deficit is presented on a cash rather than an accruals basis, although the accrual basis may provide more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations.[2]
The public debt has increased by over $500 billion each year since fiscal year (FY) 2003, with increases of $1 trillion in FY2008, $1.9 trillion in FY2009, and $1.7 trillion in FY2010.[3] As of October 22, 2011, the gross debt was $14.94 trillion, of which $10.20 trillion was held by the public and $4.74 trillion was intragovernmental holdings.[4] The annual gross domestic product (GDP) to the end of June 2011 was $15.003 trillion (July 29, 2011 estimate),[5] with total public debt outstanding at a ratio of 99.6% of GDP, and debt held by the public at 68% of GDP.
In the United States, there continues to be disagreement between Democrats and Republicans regarding the United States debt. On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."[6]

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


from the Washington post
UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.
The Truth about Obama's Budget Deficits, in Pictures

i'm fine with saying that the iraq and afghan wars were not in the regular budget process for the Defense budget but were added as supplemental spending.

what i have a problem with is the 550 trillion added to the national debt that year.....

yet the budget deficit SAYS it was only $161 billion and you guys acting like this is something great......... the Bush Budget for 2007 collected nearly 350 billion in social security surplus money that helped that budget look so GOOOOOOD, but in reality, this money was spent and borrowed in the budget process bringing our national debt higher and higher.....

I agree that under Obama, deficits/national debt has gotten worse....but I do not give the bush administration any kind of pass or applause for what they did, during the good economic times of this country....adding over $6 trillion to our national debt, is NOT something to praise or defend.....imho.

Your deficit numbers DO NOT TELL the whole picture, and you know it...especially now that you have posted what the national debt really is....you should know it.

the federal gvt did not spend only 2.7 trillion to run our country in 2007

they spent 3.25 trillion in 2007 when you add what had to be borrowed to run our gvt.....

Perfectly stated.

No one who takes fiscal conservativism the least bit seriously would have the tiniest shred of respect for Bush and his repubs budgets and spending from 2001-2007.

 

[JRK]

Ue is funded by employers in 2007....it was not until 2009 that the money collected from employers ran out...you are showing what was spent on UE in 2007 JR but you are not including what the employers gave the federal gvt to pay for it.


National debt added in 2007 was $554 billion


beginning National Debt 09/29/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23

ending National Debt 10/01/2007 9,062,552,400,356.63

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

your defict says 161 billion for 2007 on your link yet we added $550 BILLION to the National Debt.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT!

How do we grade a presidents policy if you look at total debt vs budget deficits?
It took 2.73 trillion to run our country in 2007, we took in 2.57 for the year. That is all that congress and the president for that year can control, for the year that is what it took to run the federal govt

Debt

The United States public debt is the money borrowed by the federal government of the United States at any one time through the issue of securities by the Treasury and other federal government agencies. The US national public debt consists of two components:
Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments.[1]
Intragovernment debt comprises Treasury securities held in accounts administered by the federal government, such as the Social Security Trust Fund.
Public debt increases or decreases as a result of the annual unified budget deficit or surplus. The federal government budget deficit or surplus is the cash difference between government receipts and spending, ignoring intra-governmental transfers. However, there is certain spending (supplemental appropriations) that add to the debt but are excluded from the deficit. The deficit is presented on a cash rather than an accruals basis, although the accrual basis may provide more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations.[2]
The public debt has increased by over $500 billion each year since fiscal year (FY) 2003, with increases of $1 trillion in FY2008, $1.9 trillion in FY2009, and $1.7 trillion in FY2010.[3] As of October 22, 2011, the gross debt was $14.94 trillion, of which $10.20 trillion was held by the public and $4.74 trillion was intragovernmental holdings.[4] The annual gross domestic product (GDP) to the end of June 2011 was $15.003 trillion (July 29, 2011 estimate),[5] with total public debt outstanding at a ratio of 99.6% of GDP, and debt held by the public at 68% of GDP.
In the United States, there continues to be disagreement between Democrats and Republicans regarding the United States debt. On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."[6]

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


from the Washington post
UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.
The Truth about Obama's Budget Deficits, in Pictures

i'm fine with saying that the iraq and afghan wars were not in the regular budget process for the Defense budget but were added as supplemental spending.

what i have a problem with is the 550 trillion added to the national debt that year.....

yet the budget deficit SAYS it was only $161 billion and you guys acting like this is something great......... the Bush Budget for 2007 collected nearly 350 billion in social security surplus money that helped that budget look so GOOOOOOD, but in reality, this money was spent and borrowed in the budget process bringing our national debt higher and higher.....

I agree that under Obama, deficits/national debt has gotten worse....but I do not give the bush administration any kind of pass or applause for what they did, during the good economic times of this country....adding over $6 trillion to our national debt, is NOT something to praise or defend.....imho.

Your deficit numbers DO NOT TELL the whole picture, and you know it...especially now that you have posted what the national debt really is....you should know it.

the federal gvt did not spend only 2.7 trillion to run our country in 2007

they spent 3.25 trillion in 2007 when you add what had to be borrowed to run our gvt.....

So what your saying is that Clinton never had a surplus either? I will be the first to admit that why we have 2 numbers never made sense to me
I have always been under the understanding that as it states in the link I provided it took
Total revenue $2.57 trillion
Total expenditures $2.73 trillion
for 2007, I have no understanding as where the other 350 billion came from, I am being honest
I ma growing very weary of this entire mess. If we cannot judge our president based on monies put out vs monies brought in then can you explain to me whats the use?

 

[JRK]

What is the difference between the public debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the difference between the money Government takes in, called receipts, and what the Government spends, called outlays, each year. Receipts include the money the Government takes in from income, excise and social insurance taxes as well as fees and other income. Outlays include all Federal spending including social security and Medicare benefits along with all other spending ranging from medical research to interest payments on the debt. When there is a deficit, Treasury must borrow the money needed for the government to pay its bills.

We borrow the money by selling Treasury securities like T-bills, notes, Treasury Inflation-Protected securities and savings bonds to the public. Additionally, the Government Trust Funds are required by law to invest accumulated surpluses in Treasury securities. The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (intragovernmental holdings) then become part of the total debt.

 

[JRK]

What is the difference between the public debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the difference between the money Government takes in, called receipts, and what the Government spends, called outlays, each year. Receipts include the money the Government takes in from income, excise and social insurance taxes as well as fees and other income. Outlays include all Federal spending including social security and Medicare benefits along with all other spending ranging from medical research to interest payments on the debt. When there is a deficit, Treasury must borrow the money needed for the government to pay its bills.

We borrow the money by selling Treasury securities like T-bills, notes, Treasury Inflation-Protected securities and savings bonds to the public. Additionally, the Government Trust Funds are required by law to invest accumulated surpluses in Treasury securities. The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (intragovernmental holdings) then become part of the total debt.

Now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? but not really, according to what you saying then Clinton (GOP congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

 

[Care4all]

What is the difference between the public debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the difference between the money Government takes in, called receipts, and what the Government spends, called outlays, each year. Receipts include the money the Government takes in from income, excise and social insurance taxes as well as fees and other income. Outlays include all Federal spending including social security and Medicare benefits along with all other spending ranging from medical research to interest payments on the debt. When there is a deficit, Treasury must borrow the money needed for the government to pay its bills.

We borrow the money by selling Treasury securities like T-bills, notes, Treasury Inflation-Protected securities and savings bonds to the public. Additionally, the Government Trust Funds are required by law to invest accumulated surpluses in Treasury securities. The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (intragovernmental holdings) then become part of the total debt.

Now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? but not really, according to what you saying then Clinton (GOP congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

 

[JRK]

What is the difference between the public debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the difference between the money Government takes in, called receipts, and what the Government spends, called outlays, each year. Receipts include the money the Government takes in from income, excise and social insurance taxes as well as fees and other income. Outlays include all Federal spending including social security and Medicare benefits along with all other spending ranging from medical research to interest payments on the debt. When there is a deficit, Treasury must borrow the money needed for the government to pay its bills.

We borrow the money by selling Treasury securities like T-bills, notes, Treasury Inflation-Protected securities and savings bonds to the public. Additionally, the Government Trust Funds are required by law to invest accumulated surpluses in Treasury securities. The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (intragovernmental holdings) then become part of the total debt.

Now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? but not really, according to what you saying then Clinton (GOP congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

As I do. I had no intentions of deception. we were as a government very close to a balanced budget in 2007
we are not today
if we compare apples to apples it is what it is. In 2007 we where within 163 billion dollars of a balanced budget
Today it is 1.2 trillion for 2010. (estimated)

 

[8537]

Historically CBO has been wrong on 90% of the time..

Just for the fucking record Obama authorized 3.5 trillion in spending THAT IS BEING SPENT AS WE SPEAK -- do you know that???

It's already been authorized - yet that shit doesn't show up - it does on the national debt but not on the budget...

What the fuck are you talking about?

Can you show us where you got this 90% figure? And where you arrived at the conclusion that there's 3.5T in spending that "doesn't show up on the budget"?

 

[8537]

What is the difference between the public debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the difference between the money Government takes in, called receipts, and what the Government spends, called outlays, each year. Receipts include the money the Government takes in from income, excise and social insurance taxes as well as fees and other income. Outlays include all Federal spending including social security and Medicare benefits along with all other spending ranging from medical research to interest payments on the debt. When there is a deficit, Treasury must borrow the money needed for the government to pay its bills.

We borrow the money by selling Treasury securities like T-bills, notes, Treasury Inflation-Protected securities and savings bonds to the public. Additionally, the Government Trust Funds are required by law to invest accumulated surpluses in Treasury securities. The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (intragovernmental holdings) then become part of the total debt.

Now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? but not really, according to what you saying then Clinton (GOP congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

The debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the SS trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

 

[JRK]

now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? But not really, according to what you saying then clinton (gop congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

But what he did, was take the ss surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

the debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the ss trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

10-4

 

[Care4all]

Now if we had 163 billion dollars more in income we would have had a balanced budget? but not really, according to what you saying then Clinton (GOP congress) had a surplus in 2001, but the national debt went up that year?

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

The debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the SS trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

if SS was not in our federal budget at all, and in it's own account not in the budget process....like it was before president Johnson had it merged in to the budget to hide the percentage of our taxes that were spent on Defense and the vietnam war....

would president Clinton have had a surplus budget? would President Bush's budget deficits been higher? Can this be determined?

also, if social security had a budget deficit instead of a budget surplus, how would that have affected the intragovernmental debt?

Not at all....? and the foreign debt would have gone up to cover the SS deficit???

 

[JRK]

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

The debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the SS trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

if SS was not in our federal budget at all, and in it's own account not in the budget process....like it was before president Johnson had it merged in to the budget to hide the percentage of our taxes that were spent on Defense and the vietnam war....

would president Clinton have had a surplus budget? would President Bush's budget deficits been higher? Can this be determined?

also, if social security had a budget deficit instead of a budget surplus, how would that have affected the intragovernmental debt?

Not at all....? and the foreign debt would have gone up to cover the SS deficit???

SS is funded as you state it, look how much extra money Obama has had not raising benefits in 3 years
I am not a person who thinks war is the solution to every-thing. Nam was a mistake, Iraq I feel was not, I have my reasons you can find in other threads.
The bottom line is the defense of this country is a constitution mandate and it is not breaking this country, un funded entitlements are

from 2010

$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (+58.6%) – Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt

UE is for the most part funded thru ins. we pay for and corporatios collect. It should not be part of the welfare cost

The Iraq war cost us about 1 trillion. In 1 year we spend that much as you can see in welfare and medicare.
By no means am I saying these things are not a good thing, they have just gotten out of control

 

[Toro]

if memory serves the deficit claimed a surplus but the national debt added about 120 billion that year....that means ss surplus money were used....and it is true, pres clinton did add to the national debt each year he was in office....

but what he did, was take the SS surplus monies and pay off the debt to other countries with it....so it moved columns, from owing foreigners, to owing ourselves (intragovermental debt) is my understanding of it.......

The debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the SS trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

if SS was not in our federal budget at all, and in it's own account not in the budget process....like it was before president Johnson had it merged in to the budget to hide the percentage of our taxes that were spent on Defense and the vietnam war....

would president Clinton have had a surplus budget? would President Bush's budget deficits been higher? Can this be determined?

also, if social security had a budget deficit instead of a budget surplus, how would that have affected the intragovernmental debt?

Not at all....? and the foreign debt would have gone up to cover the SS deficit???

8537 is correct. The surplus was in the trusts. If you exclude the trusts, the government was not in surplus. And the deficit under Bush would have been worse. But that's moving the goal posts after the fact since we have focused on the consolidated budget for decades.

However, net debt and publicly-held debt both fell in the last years of Clinton (and the Republican Congress). This means that the fiscal balance of the Treasury was improving, so much so that had trends continued, the CBO was predicting c2000 the elimination of all publicly traded debt by about now.

That's why this debate is a canard. The fiscal balance of the US government improved dramatically in the late 90s, no matter how you slice and dice the books.

It also should give optimism that our current situation is not intractable. A decade ago Brazil was on the verge of bankruptcy and we were talking about paying off all the debt of the Treasury. It's the opposite today.

 

[Divine Wind]

Note that the deficits listed here are in fiscal years (FY), which begin on 1 October of the previous year. FY2009 was October 1, 2008.

US Federal Deficit by Year - Charts Analysis

United States Debt Deficit History - Charts

The problems in our government finances have been building for quite awhile.

 

[JRK]

The debt held by the government declined b/c the federal government took in more revenue than it spent. However, the SS trust ran a surplus - which creates a deficit in intergovernmental accounts. Therefore, the total debt including intergovernmental transfers went up.

if SS was not in our federal budget at all, and in it's own account not in the budget process....like it was before president Johnson had it merged in to the budget to hide the percentage of our taxes that were spent on Defense and the vietnam war....

would president Clinton have had a surplus budget? would President Bush's budget deficits been higher? Can this be determined?

also, if social security had a budget deficit instead of a budget surplus, how would that have affected the intragovernmental debt?

Not at all....? and the foreign debt would have gone up to cover the SS deficit???

8537 is correct. The surplus was in the trusts. If you exclude the trusts, the government was not in surplus. And the deficit under Bush would have been worse. But that's moving the goal posts after the fact since we have focused on the consolidated budget for decades.

However, net debt and publicly-held debt both fell in the last years of Clinton (and the Republican Congress). This means that the fiscal balance of the Treasury was improving, so much so that had trends continued, the CBO was predicting c2000 the elimination of all publicly traded debt by about now.

That's why this debate is a canard. The fiscal balance of the US government improved dramatically in the late 90s, no matter how you slice and dice the books.

It also should give optimism that our current situation is not intractable. A decade ago Brazil was on the verge of bankruptcy and we were talking about paying off all the debt of the Treasury. It's the opposite today.

do you think the current leadeship can do this?

 

[JRK]

Note that the deficits listed here are in fiscal years (FY), which begin on 1 October of the previous year. FY2009 was October 1, 2008.

US Federal Deficit by Year - Charts Analysis

United States Debt Deficit History - Charts

The problems in our government finances have been building for quite awhile.

That id true except Obama signed the 09 budget. To be fair GWB does own some of that debt, but not like one would be lead to believe
if you look at the 08 deficit thats about the same GWB owns in 09

 

[rdean]

The biggest mis conception of Obama is that he inherited a Government that was in shambles. The banking sector and the housing sector was in shambles but the U.S. govt. Was not in that bad of shape.
In fact:
2007 we were within 163 billion of a balanced budget
2008 we signed the peace treaty with Iraq that today we see has came to pass, all troops will be gone in 8 weeks or so
Tarp and the 250 billion that GWB Admin used stopped the banking collapsed and that sector was turned around in months. Not like it was in 07, but also not collapsing either. Most of that money we got back in months

So exactly what was it that Obama inherited that forced him to spend over 4 trillion dollars we did not have?

Fucking idiot. Bush never included the cost of either war or the cost of his tax cuts in his budgets. What is wrong with these right wingers. The economy was losing 750,000 jobs a MONTH when Obama was sworn in. From 2001 to 2008, Republicans, working with China and the Chamber of Commerce moved MILLIONS of jobs to China. MILLIONS!

Just stop it already. We know what happened. We were there.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Bush ran up an average of $410 billion in deficit spending per year,
while Obama is running up an average of $1.413 trillion in deficit spending per year &#8212; or $1.003 trillion a year more than Bush.


Reality is hard for the Left
when it comes from crazy left wing blogs

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I can understand threads that want to minimize the Bush contribution to our economic woes...

...Primarily, by those "conservative"-folks who (now, say they) disagreed with Lil' Dumbya's spending.....but, always managed to forget to bring-it-up, during his Presiduncy.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Un funded war?
that is not true

No true? OK then, answer me this: when we added hundreds of billions of dollars to a budget that was already in deficit, which new revenue source was set up to cover the costs?

I did

We have sectors that if were not so restricted would create millions of jobs...

....And, there are....what?....soooooooooooooooo many....that none-o'-them come to (your) mind, at-the-moment, huh??

The private sector caused the loss in revenue, not the federal govt

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

*
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQVGjlQmhk[/ame]


What we NEED is less-governmental-interference.....just like the Good Ol' Days.....

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6whSWn1RRM[/ame]
*
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=KebHqCxOGZY[/ame]

Yeah.....that'd fix those folks who made the poor-choice to be born BLACK!!!!


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