There is no point in attempting discussion with Liberals

[Deornwulf]

In almost any discussion I attempt with Liberals, they always bring the subject back to how much they hate President Bush, the war in Iraq is wrong, President Bush is wrong, Bush supporters are stupid, President Bush is wrong, everything wrong in the world is America's fault, President Bush is wrong, etc.

There seems to be no point in trying to have a discussion. I have yet to meet a Liberal who will make any concessions.

 

[dilloduck]

In almost any discussion I attempt with Liberals, they always bring the subject back to how much they hate President Bush, the war in Iraq is wrong, President Bush is wrong, Bush supporters are stupid, President Bush is wrong, everything wrong in the world is America's fault, President Bush is wrong, etc.

There seems to be no point in trying to have a discussion. I have yet to meet a Liberal who will make any concessions.

Nope--only point is honing your debate skills and solidify your own point of view. They have nothing to offer.

 

[ciplexian]

Needless to say it's a two way street. I have yet to meet any conservatives who have openly admitted to converting over to liberalism after conversing with me, but one can always hope

 

[dilloduck]

Needless to say it's a two way street. I have yet to meet any conservatives who have openly admitted to converting over to liberalism after conversing with me, but one can always hope

Makes you wonder what the basic differences are doesn't it ?

 

[ciplexian]

Makes you wonder what the basic differences are doesn't it ?

I have no idea really, but it probably has to do with the way we were raised. For myself, I don't really consider myself that ideological. Edmund Burke seems to think that conservatism is gradual reform rather than sudden change-- not tearing down the accomplishments of the past for the fads of the present. Being concerned with past and future generations. If so then I'm a conservative. Others say that being conservative is synonomous with individual freedom, belief in free markets. If so then once again I'm a conservative. But look up the world liberal or progressive in the dictionary and I'm that too. So I guess I'm just confused.

 

[Shattered]

I have no idea really, but it probably has to do with the way we were raised. For myself, I don't really consider myself that ideological. Edmund Burke seems to think that conservatism is gradual reform rather than sudden change-- not tearing down the accomplishments of the past for the fads of the present. Being concerned with past and future generations. If so then I'm a conservative. Others say that being conservative is synonomous with individual freedom, belief in free markets. If so then once again I'm a conservative. But look up the world liberal or progressive in the dictionary and I'm that too. So I guess I'm just confused.

We call those "Fence Sitters" where I'm from.

 

[dilloduck]

We call those "Fence Sitters" where I'm from.

My general feeling is that conservatives (realizing that the line has to be drawn somewhere) have chosen to take responsibilty for their own lives and encourage others to do the same instead of expecting gifts or blaming others

 

[Shattered]

My general feeling is that conservatives (realizing that the line has to be drawn somewhere) have chosen to take responsibilty for their own lives and encourage others to do the same instead of expecting gifts or blaming others

...and that's precisely how it should be.

 

[ciplexian]

My general feeling is that conservatives (realizing that the line has to be drawn somewhere) have chosen to take responsibilty for their own lives and encourage others to do the same instead of expecting gifts or blaming others

I hardly think Warren Buffet or George Soros expect gifts or blame others

The ironic thing is that states with higher incomes and lower divorce, abortion rates are also the more Democratic ones.

 

[dilloduck]

I hardly think Warren Buffet or George Soros expect gifts or blame others

The ironic thing is that states with higher incomes and lower divorce, abortion rates are also the more Democratic ones.

ohhh the big guys-----they just want power and need to keep the little liberals dependent on them.

 

[sagegirl]

In almost any discussion I attempt with Liberals, they always bring the subject back to how much they hate President Bush, the war in Iraq is wrong, President Bush is wrong, Bush supporters are stupid, President Bush is wrong, everything wrong in the world is America's fault, President Bush is wrong, etc.

There seems to be no point in trying to have a discussion. I have yet to meet a Liberal who will make any concessions.

I welcome a discussion of issues. I have lost interest in many threads when the subject turns from the issues to a I'm right, you're wrong, debate. The name calling follows and then lots of irrelevent rhetoric and often opinions expressed as absolute fact. Every aspect of your post can be turned around...there is trouble on both sides of the fence. There are some responsible and credible contributors here, seek them out. I have found that even though I dont agree with some posts and some members, I still respect their values, and their opinions.
So set up some threads and see what happens.

 

[Democrat4Bush]

The ironic thing is that states with higher incomes and lower divorce, abortion rates are also the more Democratic ones.

They are also the ones with the most people dependent on social services and welfare.

 

[Deornwulf]

I welcome a discussion of issues. I have lost interest in many threads when the subject turns from the issues to a I'm right, you're wrong, debate. The name calling follows and then lots of irrelevent rhetoric and often opinions expressed as absolute fact. Every aspect of your post can be turned around...there is trouble on both sides of the fence. There are some responsible and credible contributors here, seek them out. I have found that even though I dont agree with some posts and some members, I still respect their values, and their opinions.
So set up some threads and see what happens.

I have, just not here. I post regularly on a board that has many pseudo-intellectuals who take every thread as an opportunity to pontificate about how everything President Bush does is evil.

For example, any discussion about the war in Iraq always boils down to the Left stating the war is evil and there is no reason to be in Iraq. No good can come from it and it was evil of the United States to attack an innocent nation. This continues even when I attempt to bring up the war in Yugoslavia as an example why the war in Iraq has at least the same validity. All I get is grief about moving on and such, no real discussion of the issues.

 

[sagegirl]

I have, just not here. I post regularly on a board that has many pseudo-intellectuals who take every thread as an opportunity to pontificate about how everything President Bush does is evil.

For example, any discussion about the war in Iraq always boils down to the Left stating the war is evil and there is no reason to be in Iraq. No good can come from it and it was evil of the United States to attack an innocent nation. This continues even when I attempt to bring up the war in Yugoslavia as an example why the war in Iraq has at least the same validity. All I get is grief about moving on and such, no real discussion of the issues.

Maybe I missed your threads, I might find time to go back and read them...but I think your style is a little whiney.....present your case, and support your claims with some legitimate sources and stand on that...this whole thread is a demonstration of the overemphasis that you place on those that disagree with you. What????? You want to express your opinion and then just have the rest of us go and say jeez, hes so right and Im so wrong, what was I thinkin???????? I dont think you should approach this forum as if you are going to change anybody's mind. It is an opportunity to share ideas.

 

[Deornwulf]

Maybe I missed your threads, I might find time to go back and read them...but I think your style is a little whiney.....present your case, and support your claims with some legitimate sources and stand on that...this whole thread is a demonstration of the overemphasis that you place on those that disagree with you. What????? You want to express your opinion and then just have the rest of us go and say jeez, hes so right and Im so wrong, what was I thinkin???????? I dont think you should approach this forum as if you are going to change anybody's mind. It is an opportunity to share ideas.

Too true, I spend too much time tilting at windmills. I put the post in to let off steam in a place where I feel less threatened than I do on some other boards. I will endeavor to make some more thought provoking threads.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

The ironic thing is that states with higher incomes and lower divorce, abortion rates are also the more Democratic ones.

Not according to this. The highest rate for legal abortions per 1,000 women is the District of Colombia, followed by New York and Delware.

http://www.statehealthfacts.kff.org...y=0&viewas=&showregions=0&sortby=rank#sorttop

 

[Huckleburry]

Deornwulf,
Your thread raised a pretty interesting question, what is the difference between a liberal and a conservative. I think of myself as a moderate, on this board though I am probably characterized as a liberal, I go to school in Connecticut, and by these standards I am not a liberal. I study economics and the result is that most of my arguments tend to be economic rather than religous or philisophical. I am curious though, just what is the difference between a liberal and a conservative? Another question is can such a disccussion take place and continue to be constructive? It being your question I'll let you fire the opening salvo.
Cheers
Huck

 

[nakedemperor]

In almost any discussion I attempt with Liberals, they always bring the subject back to how much they hate President Bush, the war in Iraq is wrong, President Bush is wrong, Bush supporters are stupid, President Bush is wrong, everything wrong in the world is America's fault, President Bush is wrong, etc.

There seems to be no point in trying to have a discussion. I have yet to meet a Liberal who will make any concessions.

D-man--

Well, for one thing, its obviously a very polarized atmosphere these days. That's readily apparent, so folks are much more entrenched in their ideas. If your experience on the USMB thus far has been emblematic of this problem in general, its probably because people seeking out a political weblog are pretty set in their ways to begin with. Moreover, people tend to discuss the most polemic issues-- abortion, Iraq, gay marriage, social security, tax codes, etc. Very rarely are you going to engage someone and give them crucial information that they are not as of yet privy to which will alter their opinion.

Then of course there's ego. People don't necessarily want to be 'proven wrong' under any circumstances; I don't fault people for this, its only natural. Essentially though, I don't think you can color this phenomenon specifically across party lines. I'm a liberal, and I've never recieved any major "concessions" as you put it from the conservatives around these parts. I don't think its a function of conservatives naturally being more stubborn or pigheaded than anyone else. It would be a vast generalization to say "liberals are open to new ideas and are generally receptive to logical arguments" and "conservatives are closed minded". It depends on the individual.

 

[Deornwulf]

D-man--

Well, for one thing, its obviously a very polarized atmosphere these days. That's readily apparent, so folks are much more entrenched in their ideas. If your experience on the USMB thus far has been emblematic of this problem in general, its probably because people seeking out a political weblog are pretty set in their ways to begin with. Moreover, people tend to discuss the most polemic issues-- abortion, Iraq, gay marriage, social security, tax codes, etc. Very rarely are you going to engage someone and give them crucial information that they are not as of yet privy to which will alter their opinion.

Then of course there's ego. People don't necessarily want to be 'proven wrong' under any circumstances; I don't fault people for this, its only natural. Essentially though, I don't think you can color this phenomenon specifically across party lines. I'm a liberal, and I've never recieved any major "concessions" as you put it from the conservatives around these parts. I don't think its a function of conservatives naturally being more stubborn or pigheaded than anyone else. It would be a vast generalization to say "liberals are open to new ideas and are generally receptive to logical arguments" and "conservatives are closed minded". It depends on the individual.

Hey, something we can agree upon!

 

[Adam's Apple]

The ironic thing is that states with higher incomes and lower divorce, abortion rates are also the more Democratic ones.

Before I decide if I want to put a dog in this fight, what specific "states" are we talking about?