The Zimmermann Bottom Line

[Againsheila]

So Marten was a thug?

Like I said before, he was suspended from school no less than 3 times this year alone, I think he was well on his way, especially with parents that didn't care. I mean, come on, your son is suspended from school, you come home at night and he's not there and you "assume" he's spending the night with friends?

I don't think his parents are that bad, both his parents have called for a von violent solution to theirs sons death.

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

Again, around here I wouldn't even let my 17 year old walk to the store alone at night and that's when he's NOT on suspension.

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh, the "anonymous" witness.

At least we know John's name. At least John isn't a friend of either side. At least John spoke to police in a timely fashion.

But, that hoe that Travon was on the phone with, what's her name? When did she talk to police? Is she unbiased? Oh, the anonymous witness for your side... Your side is nothing except shit. You eat shit. You breath shit. You spew shit. You look like shit. You think like shit.

Hey, slap-dick:

I don't care what a fucking racist goon like you thinks of me. Your very existence is dishonorable and pathetic. Don't think anyone is going to start paying attention to you simply because you are on a message board.

So what's the weather like over at Stormfront?

 

[High_Gravity]

Like I said before, he was suspended from school no less than 3 times this year alone, I think he was well on his way, especially with parents that didn't care. I mean, come on, your son is suspended from school, you come home at night and he's not there and you "assume" he's spending the night with friends?

I don't think his parents are that bad, both his parents have called for a von violent solution to theirs sons death.

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

Again, around here I wouldn't even let my 17 year old walk to the store alone at night and that's when he's NOT on suspension.

Its unreasonable to let a 17 year old walk to the store at night to buy skittles and sweet tea? hell 17 year olds can fight and die in the Military but not go to the store at night?

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't think his parents are that bad, both his parents have called for a von violent solution to theirs sons death.

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

Again, around here I wouldn't even let my 17 year old walk to the store alone at night and that's when he's NOT on suspension.

Its unreasonable to let a 17 year old walk to the store at night to buy skittles and sweet tea? hell 17 year olds can fight and die in the Military but not go to the store at night?

Obviously not! I carry when I take the dog for a walk, during the day, much less at night. Anyone out at night is a moving target. That's just the facts. When I see someone out walking at night, I assume they are armed and avoid them, just like they might assume I am armed and avoid me. We are both probably correct. Sanford is not Beverly Hills or Bel Aire, it already had a rep for being a high crime area.

It looks like what happened was Trayvon Martin ducked out not only to go to the store, but to sneak a smoke on a fattie. It made him a little wierd and he was wandering around, looking stupid. Zimmerman noticed that Martin "appeared to be on drugs" and was correct, he was. He followed him, probably not to initiate a confrontation, but to be a witness to a break in if one occured. When he was told that the police were on their way and he didn't need to do that, he returned to his car to meet the police at the mailboxes. Trayvon Martin intending to teach this shorty a lesson right behind him.

The prosecution's case is falling apart. Now they are tryng to say that Zimmerman was the instigator simply by virtue of being on the same street as Martin, at the same time. That won't work. They both had a right to be there at that time. Only one escalated into violence.

Had Trayvon Martin not been high, he might have used better judgment.

 

[Trajan]

Zimmerman provoked the confrontation with Martin that resulted in him using lethal force.

Due to SYG, he's going to walk too, even though his actions were unconscionable. The only other witness is dead. SYG radically expands self defense beyond where it is necessary for any reasonable person to need to defend themselves. No, the perception of threat in a simple argument is grounds for lethal force. To make matters worse, it makes situations like this, which weren't intended to be legal in the original law (because Zimmerman pursued Martin), de facto legal as the other party will invariably be dead.

If you think any of this is just and proper, you are fucked in the head. Hopefully, neither you, your children, or anyone you love, will be so unfortunate to get into a verbal altercation with a trigger happy dipshit like Zimmerman or a straight up anti-social personality disorder who is dying to use their weapon.

Or something like this:

Black Male Shoots Unarmed Hispanic, Remains Free, Media Mum - Daniel Adkins - Fox Nation

Just might happen.

he might walk over SYG, or, becasue the prosecutor overcharged the case.

 

[Katzndogz]

Zimmerman could not provoke an attack merely by being on the same street at the same time. That's just not a provocation. Neither is asking what are you doing. That's not a provocation. Unless Zimmerman did something really provocative, there is no case. Many victims of black beatings are just on the street or may have made a passing comment. Finding this provocation to justify a vicous beating is going to result in a whole lot more beatings.

 

[Salt Jones]

Zimmerman did exactly what anyone should do when a thug attacks them.

And did Martin do what anyone should have done when some creepy dude is stalking them in the night?

Conveniently omitted from all of this is Martin's perception of danger and the fact that, if he attacked Zimmerman, it was certainly out of self preservation.

Ironically, if Martin legally had a gun and blasted Zimmerman, he'd be free right now under SYG too.

I am beginning to see why the NRA wrote these laws.

Personally I wear the Hoodie available from the NRA's website. It is good quality and comes with a Velcro attachable inside the pocket holster and for a limited time a double magazine pouch.

It is available in Navy blue and Trayvon black.

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=11&p=CO+635&ct=e

I have one of those, they are great.

 

[Salt Jones]

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

Again, around here I wouldn't even let my 17 year old walk to the store alone at night and that's when he's NOT on suspension.

Its unreasonable to let a 17 year old walk to the store at night to buy skittles and sweet tea? hell 17 year olds can fight and die in the Military but not go to the store at night?

Obviously not! I carry when I take the dog for a walk, during the day, much less at night. Anyone out at night is a moving target. That's just the facts. When I see someone out walking at night, I assume they are armed and avoid them, just like they might assume I am armed and avoid me. We are both probably correct. Sanford is not Beverly Hills or Bel Aire, it already had a rep for being a high crime area.

It looks like what happened was Trayvon Martin ducked out not only to go to the store, but to sneak a smoke on a fattie. It made him a little wierd and he was wandering around, looking stupid. Zimmerman noticed that Martin "appeared to be on drugs" and was correct, he was. He followed him, probably not to initiate a confrontation, but to be a witness to a break in if one occured. When he was told that the police were on their way and he didn't need to do that, he returned to his car to meet the police at the mailboxes. Trayvon Martin intending to teach this shorty a lesson right behind him.

The prosecution's case is falling apart. Now they are tryng to say that Zimmerman was the instigator simply by virtue of being on the same street as Martin, at the same time. That won't work. They both had a right to be there at that time. Only one escalated into violence.

Had Trayvon Martin not been high, he might have used better judgment.

You are correct, that's why I don't use drugs. I want my system drug free for the day when a white meth head tries to rob me. I have named that day "Christmas", because it will be such a gift. That's why I love Arizona.

 

[Katzndogz]

And did Martin do what anyone should have done when some creepy dude is stalking them in the night?

Conveniently omitted from all of this is Martin's perception of danger and the fact that, if he attacked Zimmerman, it was certainly out of self preservation.

Ironically, if Martin legally had a gun and blasted Zimmerman, he'd be free right now under SYG too.

I am beginning to see why the NRA wrote these laws.

Personally I wear the Hoodie available from the NRA's website. It is good quality and comes with a Velcro attachable inside the pocket holster and for a limited time a double magazine pouch.

It is available in Navy blue and Trayvon black.

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=11&p=CO+635&ct=e

I have one of those, they are great.

I have a police officer jacket with a built in pocket. I love it. It was a gift.

 

[Katzndogz]

Its unreasonable to let a 17 year old walk to the store at night to buy skittles and sweet tea? hell 17 year olds can fight and die in the Military but not go to the store at night?

Obviously not! I carry when I take the dog for a walk, during the day, much less at night. Anyone out at night is a moving target. That's just the facts. When I see someone out walking at night, I assume they are armed and avoid them, just like they might assume I am armed and avoid me. We are both probably correct. Sanford is not Beverly Hills or Bel Aire, it already had a rep for being a high crime area.

It looks like what happened was Trayvon Martin ducked out not only to go to the store, but to sneak a smoke on a fattie. It made him a little wierd and he was wandering around, looking stupid. Zimmerman noticed that Martin "appeared to be on drugs" and was correct, he was. He followed him, probably not to initiate a confrontation, but to be a witness to a break in if one occured. When he was told that the police were on their way and he didn't need to do that, he returned to his car to meet the police at the mailboxes. Trayvon Martin intending to teach this shorty a lesson right behind him.

The prosecution's case is falling apart. Now they are tryng to say that Zimmerman was the instigator simply by virtue of being on the same street as Martin, at the same time. That won't work. They both had a right to be there at that time. Only one escalated into violence.

Had Trayvon Martin not been high, he might have used better judgment.

You are correct, that's why I don't use drugs. I want my system drug free for the day when a white meth head tries to rob me. I have named that day "Christmas", because it will be such a gift. That's why I love Arizona.

Arizona! It will doubtless be a mexican meth head or cartel kidnapper. But you would be equally as correct.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Like I said before, he was suspended from school no less than 3 times this year alone, I think he was well on his way, especially with parents that didn't care. I mean, come on, your son is suspended from school, you come home at night and he's not there and you "assume" he's spending the night with friends?

And any of that is legally relevant, how?

And again, having been suspended from school no less than 3 times that year alone, I think Trayvon was far from innocent.

Still irrelevant, the victim is not on trial.

What’s remarkable and telling is how Zimmerman has become such a hero for the right. This indeed confirms the conservative propensity to perceive oneself as a ‘victim.’

 

[Intense]

Like I said before, he was suspended from school no less than 3 times this year alone, I think he was well on his way, especially with parents that didn't care. I mean, come on, your son is suspended from school, you come home at night and he's not there and you "assume" he's spending the night with friends?

And any of that is legally relevant, how?

And again, having been suspended from school no less than 3 times that year alone, I think Trayvon was far from innocent.

Still irrelevant, the victim is not on trial.

What’s remarkable and telling is how Zimmerman has become such a hero for the right. This indeed confirms the conservative propensity to perceive oneself as a ‘victim.’

Zimmerman was a Hispanic Democrat, hopefully this event knocked some sense into him. Your Witch Hunt is a fail. Get over it. No wait, you are so knee deep in bullshit, listening to and digesting all of the crap from the media, that you need help getting out of the shit, huh. The funny thing is that this is not even really breaking news. Most of has even been discussed here as things developed, from the start. The fact that you are still buying into it suggests that you need to up your medications.

 

[MikeK]

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

[...]

You are telling me things I didn't know before. I've had a completely different impression of Trayvon Martin and his family, so I'll have to look more closely at these revelations.

 

[Missourian]

Please detail all the non-assault actions which you consider adequate provocation to justify a beating.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is that you are an idiot.

Zimmerman provoked the confrontation with Martin that resulted in him using lethal force.

Do you have evidence of this no one else has? The prosecution released every bit of evidence it has today. This does not happen in criminal cases, it only happens in political ones. My guess is they hoe that idiots, like you, will convict zimmerman in public because she knows she cannot do it in court.

Due to SYG, he's going to walk too, even though his actions were unconscionable. The only other witness is dead. SYG radically expands self defense beyond where it is necessary for any reasonable person to need to defend themselves. No, the perception of threat in a simple argument is grounds for lethal force. To make matters worse, it makes situations like this, which weren't intended to be legal in the original law (because Zimmerman pursued Martin), de facto legal as the other party will invariably be dead.

How, precisely, did stand your ground expand self defense? All it did was add an extra hearing to the process where a defendant gets to argue his case to a judge before trial, it does not change the standard which is used to argue self defense on iota.

If you think any of this is just and proper, you are fucked in the head. Hopefully, neither you, your children, or anyone you love, will be so unfortunate to get into a verbal altercation with a trigger happy dipshit like Zimmerman or a straight up anti-social personality disorder who is dying to use their weapon.

Trigger happy dipshits don't get the crap beaten out of them because they shoot people before they get close enough to hit them.

Or something like this:

Black Male Shoots Unarmed Hispanic, Remains Free, Media Mum - Daniel Adkins - Fox Nation

Just might happen.

Good.

 

[MikeK]

Zimmerman provoked the confrontation with Martin that resulted in him using lethal force.

Due to SYG, he's going to walk too, even though his actions were unconscionable.[...]

Maybe.

This issue has acquired some of the characteristics of the Rodney King incident and the state of Florida might not be willing to accomodate Zimmerman by risking a major riot, which is entirely likely.

Were it not for the Stand-Your-Ground ruling Zimmerman would already be sentenced and serving time. But the circumstances in this case are such that if Zimmerman cannot convince a jury that he was the defender, not the original aggressor, Stand-Your-Ground will not apply. And while we do not know the finer details of the confrontation, what we do know is Zimmerman pursued Martin in spite of the 911 dispatcher's cautionary advice that it was not necessary for him to do so. So, as you've indicated, I believe the term, provocation, will be the pivotal factor in this case. Who provoked who?

An extremely important consideration in this case is the public's disposition toward Stand-Your-Ground. I believe I understand why this concept was allowed to pass into law.

I haven't been to a movie in well over twenty years. But I'm recalling an incident in a movie theater that happened in the early '80s. I was with my late wife, my daughter and son-in-law. The film was The Fourth Protocol and the theater was quiet except for a group of six obnoxiously loud Blacks in their late teens or early twenties. Their laughing and carrying on was a complete distraction from the film.

A young White man seated with his wife or girlfriend two rows behind this group of Blacks leaned forward and said, "How about keeping it down!" And that started it.

One of the Blacks, a stereotypical thug, began a threatening exchange with the White fellow that included such insults as "motherfucker" and "faggot" which caused the White couple to get up and leave. I saw the White man's face as he turned into the aisle and he was totally frustrated and embarrassed. It was clear that if they had not left he either would have ended up being beaten or subjected to continued humiliating abuse.

It seemed to me that if he had been armed, and if he had allowed that verbal aggression to graduate to its inevitably violent conclusion, and if he had drawn a gun and shot the aggressively offensive punk, he would have been applauded -- not only by me and mine.

That type of menacingly aggressive behavior on the part of young Black thugs toward peaceful Whites has become increasingly common and I believe it ultimately led to introduction of the Stand-Your-Ground legislation and its passage. People have gotten fed up with gang-banger behavior and steps are being taken to deal with it.

The circumstances in the Zimmerman/Martin incident are such that existence of Stand-Your-Ground is threatened, which I believe will motivate the state of Florida to find that Zimmerman's actions are not covered by its provisions. That he initiated the confrontation without just cause. That he was the original aggressor, not the defender.

 

[Bigfoot]

Interviewed by cops about 90 minutes after the shooting, the witness--whose name was redacted from police documents--said that he was inside his home when he heard a “commotion coming from the walk way” behind his residence.

The man recalled seeing “a black male, wearing a dark colored ‘hoodie’ on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.” The black male, he added, “was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.'”

The witness--who was in his living room and about 30 feet away from the confrontation-- said he called out to the two men that he was dialing 911. “He then heard a ‘pop,’” police reported, and saw the black male “laid out on the grass.”

Zimmerman is pictured above in photos taken by police shortly after the February 26 shooting.

The police reports also include observations from two Sanford cops regarding Zimmerman’s physical appearance following the shooting. Officer Timothy Smith reported that Zimmerman was “bleeding from the nose and back of his head,” while Officer Jonathan Mead noted that he “appeared to have a broken and bloody nose and swelling of his face.”

Investigators also reported receiving medical reports from Altamonte Medical Practice “identifying the injuries sustained by Zimmerman on the evening of 2/26/2012.” The records indicated that he suffered an “open wound of scalp” and “Nasal bones, closed fracture.”

Imagine that eh... an eye witness.

 

[Bigfoot]

And did Martin do what anyone should have done when some creepy dude is stalking them in the night?

Conveniently omitted from all of this is Martin's perception of danger and the fact that, if he attacked Zimmerman, it was certainly out of self preservation.

Ironically, if Martin legally had a gun and blasted Zimmerman, he'd be free right now under SYG too.

I am beginning to see why the NRA wrote these laws.

Personally I wear the Hoodie available from the NRA's website. It is good quality and comes with a Velcro attachable inside the pocket holster and for a limited time a double magazine pouch.

It is available in Navy blue and Trayvon black.

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=11&p=CO+635&ct=e

I have one of those, they are great.

Do you have the Trayvon black one? That's my favorite.

 

[Gareyt17]

Zimmerman provoked the confrontation with Martin that resulted in him using lethal force.

Due to SYG, he's going to walk too, even though his actions were unconscionable. The only other witness is dead. SYG radically expands self defense beyond where it is necessary for any reasonable person to need to defend themselves. No, the perception of threat in a simple argument is grounds for lethal force. To make matters worse, it makes situations like this, which weren't intended to be legal in the original law (because Zimmerman pursued Martin), de facto legal as the other party will invariably be dead.

If you think any of this is just and proper, you are fucked in the head. Hopefully, neither you, your children, or anyone you love, will be so unfortunate to get into a verbal altercation with a trigger happy dipshit like Zimmerman or a straight up anti-social personality disorder who is dying to use their weapon.

Or something like this:

Black Male Shoots Unarmed Hispanic, Remains Free, Media Mum - Daniel Adkins - Fox Nation

Just might happen.

In reality SYG won't even come into play...there was no stand your ground situation...instead what we have is sudden combat!

There was no choice for Zimmerman to stand his ground..he was being savagely pummeled......

He shot in simple self defense...no SYG involved at all......

 

[High_Gravity]

I could give you all kinds of selfish reasons why they would do that, as well as the fact that the mother took out patents on his name. I will not, however, make assumptions on their emotions now, but please don't ask me to call someone who doesn't punish their kid when he's on suspension, a person who let's him wander around on his own in the dark, a person that doesn't even know where he is when he doesn't come home and isn't worried, a good parent. It's obvious that before the shooting, they weren't doing such a terrific job.

Again, around here I wouldn't even let my 17 year old walk to the store alone at night and that's when he's NOT on suspension.

Its unreasonable to let a 17 year old walk to the store at night to buy skittles and sweet tea? hell 17 year olds can fight and die in the Military but not go to the store at night?

Obviously not! I carry when I take the dog for a walk, during the day, much less at night. Anyone out at night is a moving target. That's just the facts. When I see someone out walking at night, I assume they are armed and avoid them, just like they might assume I am armed and avoid me. We are both probably correct. Sanford is not Beverly Hills or Bel Aire, it already had a rep for being a high crime area.

It looks like what happened was Trayvon Martin ducked out not only to go to the store, but to sneak a smoke on a fattie. It made him a little wierd and he was wandering around, looking stupid. Zimmerman noticed that Martin "appeared to be on drugs" and was correct, he was. He followed him, probably not to initiate a confrontation, but to be a witness to a break in if one occured. When he was told that the police were on their way and he didn't need to do that, he returned to his car to meet the police at the mailboxes. Trayvon Martin intending to teach this shorty a lesson right behind him.

The prosecution's case is falling apart. Now they are tryng to say that Zimmerman was the instigator simply by virtue of being on the same street as Martin, at the same time. That won't work. They both had a right to be there at that time. Only one escalated into violence.

Had Trayvon Martin not been high, he might have used better judgment.

Marijuana stays in your system for a while though, just because it was in his system does not mean he was smoking that night. Did they find any bud on his corpse or anything?