The Worst Recovery Ever

[Jroc]

Perhaps if you responded to the parts of my post you disagree it might be more useful than simple name calling?
Is there a manual written for the cure or prevention of business cycles?
Can nations with cheap labor produce products cheaper than the US?
Is the goal of the Republican party to increase or decrease the size and power of the American middle class?

The goal of conservatives is to promote free market capitalism, the system which has raised more people from poverty than any other system in the history of the world. All people want liberty in the end, collectivism is a failure. Of course there are plenty of fake ass conservative, big government Republicans. who screw things up with the libs

Rather than ask you to define free market capitalism perhaps you could name a few of the nations that have free market capitalism? Has the United States ever had FMC, if so when?

Most free nations have it to a degree, although it is only U.S. who has had the most pure form of it, which is why we've been the most prosperous nation ever in world history, from the very wealthy, to the poor we all live better here and around the world because of the United States

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEIrWSPKhk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEIrWSPKhk[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&[/ame]

 

[regent]

The goal of conservatives is to promote free market capitalism, the system which has raised more people from poverty than any other system in the history of the world. All people want liberty in the end, collectivism is a failure. Of course there are plenty of fake ass conservative, big government Republicans. who screw things up with the libs

Rather than ask you to define free market capitalism perhaps you could name a few of the nations that have free market capitalism? Has the United States ever had FMC, if so when?

Most free nations have it to a degree, although it is only U.S. who has had the most pure form of it, which is why we've been the most prosperous nation ever in world history, from the very wealthy, to the poor we all live better here and around the world because of the United States

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEIrWSPKhk]Milton Friedman on Why Free Market Capitalism is Best - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&[/ame]

Milt and I went to school together, but he never had the honor of having a class with me. But as Friedman has said, "capitalism runs on greed." And maybe it's that greed that so many Americans lack that is the problem? The problem with capitalism has been keeping it capitalistic. The goal of many capitalists is to buy, merge, destroy your competition and have the market to oneself. And with money, too many ways to buy politicians to pass laws making capitalism, uncapitalitalism.

 

[The Rabbi]

There is no manual on how to cure recessions or depressions, so far our only course of action is experimentation. Pehaps there is no cure, perhaps our manufacturing is coming to an end, as is some of our resources? Nations with cheap labor can buy new modern machinery and with their cheap labor simply out-price us. We can invent new products but cannot keep them a secret. Perhaps the Republicans are right, America has to go back to a two class system, upper and lower with a small middle class.

Perhaps you're an idiot. OK, there is no perhaps there at all.

Perhaps if you responded to the parts of my post you disagree it might be more useful than simple name calling?
Is there a manual written for the cure or prevention of business cycles?
Can nations with cheap labor produce products cheaper than the US?
Is the goal of the Republican party to increase or decrease the size and power of the American middle class?

There is no repealing the business cycle. You could do it, but no one wants the results. There was no business cycle in Soviet Russia.
Nations with cheap labor can produce some products more cheaply than the US. They cannot produce all products more cheaply than the US. This is the law of comparative advantage.
I have no idea what the goal of the GOP is, other than to win elections. The goal of small government conservatives like myself is to allow businesses to compete globally and foster economic growth, which benefits everyone, versus economic stagnation and protection, which benefits only a few people.

 

[Jroc]

Rather than ask you to define free market capitalism perhaps you could name a few of the nations that have free market capitalism? Has the United States ever had FMC, if so when?

Most free nations have it to a degree, although it is only U.S. who has had the most pure form of it, which is why we've been the most prosperous nation ever in world history, from the very wealthy, to the poor we all live better here and around the world because of the United States

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEIrWSPKhk]Milton Friedman on Why Free Market Capitalism is Best - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwxUhB9w_M&[/ame]

Milt and I went to school together, but he never had the honor of having a class with me. But as Friedman has said, "capitalism runs on greed." And maybe it's that greed that so many Americans lack that is the problem? The problem with capitalism has been keeping it capitalistic. The goal of many capitalists is to buy, merge, destroy your competition and have the market to oneself. And with money, too many ways to buy politicians to pass laws making capitalism, uncapitalitalism.

Politicians are the problem not Capitalism

 

[Widdekind]

You are forgetting the non-recourse loans that made the speculation effectively indirect.

For whom? NRLs with low down-payments would have low downside risk for the borrower / buyer. Banks would have high downside risk, but they were able to sell off loans, with credit default swaps. Simplistically, speculation, fueled by easy credit, inflated prices. In the equation of exchange, MV = PQ. And, easy credit essentially inflated the money supply (M, on the LHS), in the housing market, increasing prices (P, on the RHS), in that market. When the credit evaporated, "chased away by the first defaults", the the money supply in the housing market decreased, deflating prices.

 

[regent]

If there was a sure-fire method, tried and true, can't miss method to cure a depression/recession it would not be implemented in America. The party out of power would start their blustering and threats of filibuster, some saying it would violate the oath they made to a lobbyist and others wait until after the election--well in any case it would never work. By the way does Congress even meet anymore, if they do what in the world do they do? I know some congressmen stop by to make a bunk tv speech for the home folks but that seems about it.

 

[The Rabbi]

If there was a sure-fire method, tried and true, can't miss method to cure a depression/recession it would not be implemented in America. The party out of power would start their blustering and threats of filibuster, some saying it would violate the oath they made to a lobbyist and others wait until after the election--well in any case it would never work. By the way does Congress even meet anymore, if they do what in the world do they do? I know some congressmen stop by to make a bunk tv speech for the home folks but that seems about it.

Actually it won't happen because there would be pain to a small vocal group while a much larger group would get a smaller benefit. We absolutely need to change social security retirement. Increasing the age for benefits by 2 years would help a vast number of people. But the people within 5years of retirement would suffer. So they are the most vocal and the ones blocking it.

 

[rdean]

The Worst Recovery Ever

No wonder:

From 2001 to 2008 millions of jobs moved to China

 

[The Rabbi]

The Worst Recovery Ever

No wonder:

From 2001 to 2008 millions of jobs moved to China

And yet the UE rate into 2008 was like 6%.
Fail.

 

[Papageorgio]

The Worst Recovery Ever

No wonder:

From 2001 to 2008 millions of jobs moved to China

GE, GM, Apple, seem to be staying the course. Why isn't Obama using his influence to stop them?

What about the stimulus money that sent 6,000 green jobs overseas? why didn't Obama look out for us American workers?

 

[william the wie]

You are forgetting the non-recourse loans that made the speculation effectively indirect.

For whom? NRLs with low down-payments would have low downside risk for the borrower / buyer. Banks would have high downside risk, but they were able to sell off loans, with credit default swaps. Simplistically, speculation, fueled by easy credit, inflated prices. In the equation of exchange, MV = PQ. And, easy credit essentially inflated the money supply (M, on the LHS), in the housing market, increasing prices (P, on the RHS), in that market. When the credit evaporated, "chased away by the first defaults", the the money supply in the housing market decreased, deflating prices.

NRLs effectively eliminated risk greater than initial investment creating a call option. As to the rest of your post I find nothing to quarrel with. But pricing and bundling de facto call options as investments created structural leverage that is not capture by MV = PQ. At the peak total leverage financial and structural may have exceeded 1,000 to 1 as in the repo market produces 5 to 1 leverage that was not captured by the Fed and the mortgage market was also highly leveraged structurally.

 

[expat_panama]

The Worst Recovery Ever No wonder:
From 2001 to 2008 millions of jobs moved to China

And yet the UE rate into 2008 was like 6%. Fail.

No, rdean's on to something here.


The number of employes in the US increased from 2001 to 2008 when millions of jobs were shipped to China. Since then American job exporters have been run out of business and have had to lay off millions of job makers. From 2008 to now the number of people employed has fallen.

This will be the worst recovery ever until our job exports resume and our job makers are rehired.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Worst Recovery Ever No wonder:
From 2001 to 2008 millions of jobs moved to China

And yet the UE rate into 2008 was like 6%. Fail.

No, rdean's on to something here.


The number of employes in the US increased from 2001 to 2008 when millions of jobs were shipped to China. Since then American job exporters have been run out of business and have had to lay off millions of job makers. From 2008 to now the number of people employed has fallen.

This will be the worst recovery ever until our job exports resume and our job makers are rehired.

Yes. Exporting some jobs leads to overall job growth. I see your point.

 

[expat_panama]

...Exporting some jobs leads to overall job growth. I see your point.

No, I can't take credit here, it was Rdean. Thank you Rdean, you really straightened us out here!

 

[Widdekind]

Exporting some jobs leads to overall job growth

if "correlation does not imply causation", then perhaps the linked economies, of the US & China, both boomed in unison, so that jobs were co-created, in both economies, simultaneously? I.e. Chinese exporters gained jobs, whilst US importer-producers gained cheaper inputs, enabling expansion, and job growth? Generally, trade benefits everybody involved