The World's New Numbers

[catzmeow]

The Wilson Quarterly: The World's New Numbers by Martin Walker

“Here lies Europe, overwhelmed by Muslim immigrants and emptied of native-born Europeans,” goes the standard pundit line, but neither the immigrants nor the Europeans are playing their assigned roles....

Because of this bastardization of knowledge, three deeply misleading assumptions about demographic trends have become lodged in the public mind. The first is that mass migration into Europe, legal and illegal, combined with an eroding native population base, is transforming the ethnic, cultural, and religious identity of the continent. The second assumption, which is related to the first, is that Europe’s native population is in steady and serious decline from a falling birthrate, and that the aging population will place intolerable demands on governments to maintain public pension and health systems. The third is that population growth in the developing world will continue at a high rate. Allowing for the uncertainty of all population projections, the most recent data indicate that all of these assumptions are highly questionable and that they are not a reliable basis for serious policy decisions.

There's facts, and then there's facts with a political/xenophobic spin. And, as this article shows, the xenophobic spin isn't very accurate.

 

[percysunshine]

Demographics is basicly accounting. Either the coin is counted, or it isn't.

 

[catzmeow]

Demographic projections, on the other hand, are more like economics. You take the facts you have and postulate into the future. Sometimes, correctly. Sometimes, incorrectly.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

from the same article.

These sharp reductions in fertility among Muslim immigrants reflect important cultural shifts, which include universal female education, rising living standards, the inculcation of local mores, and widespread availability of contraception. Broadly speaking, birthrates among immigrants tend to rise or fall to the local statistical norm within two generations.

It has been the experience here in the US among immigrant communities since the 1850s that second generation immigrants have less interest in the lands they came from than their neighbors do. The only impediment is ghettoization for some reason. The Boston Irish didn't assimilate as fast as the rest of Irish in the US because of religious prejudice, and the Japanese assimilated very quickly, but when the war came their neighbors refused to believe it.

 

[Patrick2]

It has been the experience here in the US among immigrant communities since the 1850s that second generation immigrants have less interest in the lands they came from than their neighbors do. The only impediment is ghettoization for some reason. The Boston Irish didn't assimilate as fast as the rest of Irish in the US because of religious prejudice, and the Japanese assimilated very quickly, but when the war came their neighbors refused to believe it.

This is the standard invalid argument used by the leftwing in support of the illegal alien invasion from mexico. Nineteenth century and other LEGAL immigration waves bear little resemblance to the 20 million or so illegals to invade mostly the american southwest since the 1986 amnesty. People who LIVE here, like me, can give you nearly endless examples and facts showing that for all intents and purposes, the american southwest is becoming in effect a mexican province, that there is little assimilation (because there is little need for any on the part of the invaders) and it is in fact what are locally called "anglos" (non-hispanic whites) who have to do the assimilating - in their own country.

 

[percysunshine]

from the same article.

These sharp reductions in fertility among Muslim immigrants reflect important cultural shifts, which include universal female education, rising living standards, the inculcation of local mores, and widespread availability of contraception. Broadly speaking, birthrates among immigrants tend to rise or fall to the local statistical norm within two generations.

It has been the experience here in the US among immigrant communities since the 1850s that second generation immigrants have less interest in the lands they came from than their neighbors do.....

So immigrant communities have teenagers.

That is good.

 

[Tank]

You got to be a real redneck racist to think that Hispanics are some how obligated to keep you're European values, standards or traditions.

 

[Toronado3800]

It has been the experience here in the US among immigrant communities since the 1850s that second generation immigrants have less interest in the lands they came from than their neighbors do. The only impediment is ghettoization for some reason. The Boston Irish didn't assimilate as fast as the rest of Irish in the US because of religious prejudice, and the Japanese assimilated very quickly, but when the war came their neighbors refused to believe it.

This is the standard invalid argument used by the leftwing in support of the illegal alien invasion from mexico. Nineteenth century and other LEGAL immigration waves bear little resemblance to the 20 million or so illegals to invade mostly the american southwest since the 1986 amnesty. People who LIVE here, like me, can give you nearly endless examples and facts showing that for all intents and purposes, the american southwest is becoming in effect a mexican province, that there is little assimilation (because there is little need for any on the part of the invaders) and it is in fact what are locally called "anglos" (non-hispanic whites) who have to do the assimilating - in their own country.

Ok, I give. How?

Aging impotent mainstream America needs to keep our young brown brothers and their tax dollars here.

 

[José]

And here comes the good, old Toronado and his insane, suicidal economicism.

Everything, even one of the most sacred value of EVERY NATION-STATE ON EARTH:

IT'S RACIAL COMPOSITION

has to be sacrificed upon the altar of economics.

tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk...

 

[José]

Someone forgot to tell Japan that the country's government should flood the island with millions of "Josés" (and Marias) otherwise the country will collapse under the weight of its "aging, impotent" japanese population.

Oh, wait... Japan, unlike America, is a mentally sane nation-state that effectively protects one of the most sacred values of every nation state... it's racial composition.

Sorry, José... but you and your wife won't be eating sushi in Tokyo anytime soon.

 

[Toronado3800]

And here comes the good, old Toronado and his insane, suicidal economicism.

Everything, even one of the most sacred value of EVERY NATION-STATE ON EARTH:

IT'S RACIAL COMPOSITION

has to be sacrificed upon the altar of economics.

tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk...

Racial composition important? Sounds like trouble to me. Everytime someone in America talks down one race or sticks someone in internment camps they look quaint and out dated twenty years later.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Toronado
Racial composition important? Sounds like trouble to me.

Nooo, Sir... racial composition is just an insignificant detail that shouldn't even be considered.

It will be fabulous for white americans to be reduced from 90% of the nation (1960) to 20, 10%.

It will be paradise for american blacks to see their representation in the american society drop from 10, 12% to 1 or 0,5%.

After all who doesn't want to become an small, politically insignificant minority in his/her own nation??

I gotta tell you... Toronado doesn't drink Kool-Aid, he swims in it.

 

[Toronado3800]

Originally posted by Toronado
Racial composition important? Sounds like trouble to me.

Nooo, Sir... racial composition is just an insignificant detail that shouldn't even be considered.

It will be fabulous for white americans to be reduced from 90% of the nation (1960) to 20, 10%.

It will be paradise for american blacks to see their representation in the american society drop from 10, 12% to 1 or 0,5%.

After all who doesn't want to become an small, politically insignificant minority in his/her own nation??

I gotta tell you... Toronado doesn't drink Kool-Aid, he swims in it.

Jose, you are polite as can be.

Have you read the history books about the fear in America of the migrating Irish? What was the slang, shanty Irish? How about them Italians? All used to live in ghottos where English was a second language. Concerns about the first Catholic President being an agent of the Pope? The while seperate drinking fountain thing?

These worries all seem quaint, bigoted and old fashioned now.

Where do you think your concerns will be in thirty years?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Toronado3800
Have you read the history books about the fear in America of the migrating Irish? What was the slang, shanty Irish? How about them Italians? All used to live in ghottos where English was a second language. Concerns about the first Catholic President being an agent of the Pope? The while seperate drinking fountain thing?

Ask yourself why anti-irish, anti-italian etc, etc... sentiment eventually subsided in the USA, Toronado.

Here's a hint:

Because those ethnic groups did not change the historical racial composition of the USA (80-90% white, 20-12% black with an insignificant hispanic minority). It was primarily a CULTURAL prejudice (even though it did include a racial element regarding southern europeans).

Originally posted by Toronado3800
These worries all seem quaint, bigoted and old fashioned now.

Where do you think your concerns will be in thirty years?

Latin America itself is the living proof that prejudice against non-whites will not eventually disapear, Toronado.

Mexico and Brazil have non-white majorities since 1500 when both countries were colonised.

There are millions of white mexicans who hate living in a country full of Indians and Mestizos.

There are millions of white brazilians who hate living in a country full of blacks and mullatoes.

I should know cuz I was born and raised in Latin America.

How is racism doing in Latin America after 5 centuries of non-white majorities, Toronado?

It's alive and well and there's no reason to believe it will be any different in America.

 

[José]

The US government is unnecessarily introducing racial tensions in America that will last for centuries by following an absurd, insane, disastrous policy of destroying America's racial composition allowing massive hispanic/latino immigration into the USA (yes, that would be me).

A TOTALLY UNNECESSARY POLICY I might add because America became an economic powerhouse with just a ridiculous hispanic minority.

And any problems with the aging american population could be solved without destroying the ethnic makeup of the nation just like Japan deals with the same issue without allowing massive non-japanese immigration.

This is the proverbial "cure" that is worse than the disease.

This is killing the patient to cure the disease.

 

[Patrick2]

Here's the leftwing position reduced to its essential logic:


Major premise: People were concerned about the possible bad effects of irish immigration.

Minor premise: The passage of time showed that there were not many bad effects from irish immigration. (We'll ignore the civil war draft riots where they lynched black guys and burned down a black orphanage.)

Conclusion: There will be no bad effects from the massive mexican illegal alien invasion.

The above, essentially what they are saying, could be picked to shreds by a Logic 101 class.

 

[José]

Good post, Patrick...

Just a small correction.

With or without "an illegal mexican invasion" America's racial composition will be destroyed because since 1952 and specially 1965 the US government is actively engaged in an insane attempt to turn both whites and blacks into ethnic minorities in their own nation by allowing MASSIVE LEGAL HISPANIC AND (TO A FAR LESSER EXTENT) ASIAN IMMIGRATION.

 

[Patrick2]

Good post, Patrick...

Just a small correction.

With or without "an illegal mexican invasion" America's racial composition will be destroyed because since 1952 and specially 1965 the US government is actively engaged in an insane attempt to turn both whites and blacks into ethnic minorities in their own nation by allowing MASSIVE LEGAL HISPANIC AND (TO A FAR LESSER EXTENT) ASIAN IMMIGRATION.

I'm aware of this and plan a future thread entiled "America's LEGAL immigration problem".

 

[William Joyce]

So... if Europe isn't being killed off, as the Wilson Quarterly suggests, GREAT.

Only I tend not to believe this, having observed street-level trends there a few years ago that were pretty bad... and I doubt it's better today. The Africans burn the cars in Parisian neighborhoods, but I'm not supposed to worry? Can you imagine Africans trying to pull that in Nazi Germany? Hee - hee!

 

[Toronado3800]

Originally posted by Toronado3800
Have you read the history books about the fear in America of the migrating Irish? What was the slang, shanty Irish? How about them Italians? All used to live in ghottos where English was a second language. Concerns about the first Catholic President being an agent of the Pope? The while seperate drinking fountain thing?

Ask yourself why anti-irish, anti-italian etc, etc... sentiment eventually subsided in the USA, Toronado.

Here's a hint:

Because those ethnic groups did not change the historical racial composition of the USA (80-90% white, 20-12% black with an insignificant hispanic minority). It was primarily a CULTURAL prejudice (even though it did include a racial element regarding southern europeans).

Originally posted by Toronado3800
These worries all seem quaint, bigoted and old fashioned now.

Where do you think your concerns will be in thirty years?

Latin America itself is the living proof that prejudice against non-whites will not eventually disapear, Toronado.

Mexico and Brazil have non-white majorities since 1500 when both countries were colonised.

There are millions of white mexicans who hate living in a country full of Indians and Mestizos.

There are millions of white brazilians who hate living in a country full of blacks and mullatoes.

I should know cuz I was born and raised in Latin America.

How is racism doing in Latin America after 5 centuries of non-white majorities, Toronado?

It's alive and well and there's no reason to believe it will be any different in America.

Jose, ever been to a country where one segment of the population can tell another apart from themselves but you can not? Makes their differences seem trivial.

Problem is not with races, but with skin colors. Folks in America can still tell black or Hispanic men apart from whites while even a "pure blood" Irish man blends in.

Why is this skin color/race difference so important to you?

Back a few years ago folks thought highly of the differences between those born in various European nations. Stuff was very important. Now it seems quaint.

What differences do you think exist between the medium browns and the off whites that are so important?