The World is Not Coming to an End

[Toro]

Good article in The Economist

http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10564141

 

[Paulie]

Toro, many prominent economies around the world are near ready to dump dollars for Euros. Iran is supposed to be getting their Oil Bourse online this year...this MONTH, actually. See here.

Saudi Arabia is taking sides with Iran, and threatening some of the same things. Venezuela is also.

The Fed is artificially propping up the economy on crutches right now, and the media is assisting by staying silent about it, and continuously pointing to the stock market as if somehow that's the KEY to figuring out the economy's current state. Of course, most idiot Americans think if the stock market isn't "crashing" then everything MUST be ok. The PPT is neck-deep in staving off a crash, and I actually think they're orchestrating a slow, controlled drop of the Dow down to 8,000. Possibly lower. Sort of a mini "put a frog in water and slowly bring to a boil, and it will stay in" type of scenario.

If anyone prominent in the international community goes Euro, the only 2 options for us will be deflate and just get the collapse finally going and get it over with...or hyper-inflate, and continue to stave off complete collapse, at the fatal expense of the middle class, which seems to me to be what the Fed is leaning towards. This "economic stimulus" package seems to be nothing more than a back-door approach at getting Americans to ACCEPT the hyper-inflation as "necessary". Because, of course, there's no other source for this 150 billion dollars other then the printing press. I seriously doubt China is going to be willing to lend us much more money. They very well could be waiting for the Olympics to be over before they THEMSELVES start dumping dollars.

Also, the fact that somewhere in the neighborhood of possibly 9 undersea network cables have been cut in areas around the middle east over the past 2 weeks is quite telling. Who would have that capability, and MOTIVE, if not the US? Trying to delay the currency-switch, maybe?

If YOU were someone in another country making economic decisions, whether they were personal, or for government, would YOU invest in US Dollars?

Tell me why you disagree with any of what I said.

 

[nibor]

Toro, many prominent economies around the world are near ready to dump dollars for Euros. Iran is supposed to be getting their Oil Bourse online this year...this MONTH, actually. See here.

Saudi Arabia is taking sides with Iran, and threatening some of the same things. Venezuela is also.

The Fed is artificially propping up the economy on crutches right now, and the media is assisting by staying silent about it, and continuously pointing to the stock market as if somehow that's the KEY to figuring out the economy's current state. Of course, most idiot Americans think if the stock market isn't "crashing" then everything MUST be ok. The PPT is neck-deep in staving off a crash, and I actually think they're orchestrating a slow, controlled drop of the Dow down to 8,000. Possibly lower. Sort of a mini "put a frog in water and slowly bring to a boil, and it will stay in" type of scenario.

If anyone prominent in the international community goes Euro, the only 2 options for us will be deflate and just get the collapse finally going and get it over with...or hyper-inflate, and continue to stave off complete collapse, at the fatal expense of the middle class, which seems to me to be what the Fed is leaning towards. This "economic stimulus" package seems to be nothing more than a back-door approach at getting Americans to ACCEPT the hyper-inflation as "necessary". Because, of course, there's no other source for this 150 billion dollars other then the printing press. I seriously doubt China is going to be willing to lend us much more money. They very well could be waiting for the Olympics to be over before they THEMSELVES start dumping dollars.

Also, the fact that somewhere in the neighborhood of possibly 9 undersea network cables have been cut in areas around the middle east over the past 2 weeks is quite telling. Who would have that capability, and MOTIVE, if not the US? Trying to delay the currency-switch, maybe?

If YOU were someone in another country making economic decisions, whether they were personal, or for government, would YOU invest in US Dollars?

Tell me why you disagree with any of what I said.

You do realize that there IS A WAY TO STOP THIS BULLSHIT...........

 

[Paulie]

You do realize that there IS A WAY TO STOP THIS BULLSHIT...........

Well, THIS certainly would help.

 

[Toro]

Toro, many prominent economies around the world are near ready to dump dollars for Euros. Iran is supposed to be getting their Oil Bourse online this year...this MONTH, actually. See here.

Saudi Arabia is taking sides with Iran, and threatening some of the same things. Venezuela is also.

The Fed is artificially propping up the economy on crutches right now, and the media is assisting by staying silent about it, and continuously pointing to the stock market as if somehow that's the KEY to figuring out the economy's current state. Of course, most idiot Americans think if the stock market isn't "crashing" then everything MUST be ok. The PPT is neck-deep in staving off a crash, and I actually think they're orchestrating a slow, controlled drop of the Dow down to 8,000. Possibly lower. Sort of a mini "put a frog in water and slowly bring to a boil, and it will stay in" type of scenario.

If anyone prominent in the international community goes Euro, the only 2 options for us will be deflate and just get the collapse finally going and get it over with...or hyper-inflate, and continue to stave off complete collapse, at the fatal expense of the middle class, which seems to me to be what the Fed is leaning towards. This "economic stimulus" package seems to be nothing more than a back-door approach at getting Americans to ACCEPT the hyper-inflation as "necessary". Because, of course, there's no other source for this 150 billion dollars other then the printing press. I seriously doubt China is going to be willing to lend us much more money. They very well could be waiting for the Olympics to be over before they THEMSELVES start dumping dollars.

Also, the fact that somewhere in the neighborhood of possibly 9 undersea network cables have been cut in areas around the middle east over the past 2 weeks is quite telling. Who would have that capability, and MOTIVE, if not the US? Trying to delay the currency-switch, maybe?

If YOU were someone in another country making economic decisions, whether they were personal, or for government, would YOU invest in US Dollars?

Tell me why you disagree with any of what I said.

Many of your questions I have answered are on these links

On the dollar

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/toros_running_of_the_bull/2007/11/has-the-dollar-.html

On oil in euros

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/toros_running_of_the_bull/2007/11/strange-logic-a.html

Saudi Arabia will not be switching to euros

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/19/news/international/oil_opec/index.htm

Besides, despite all the talk of the dollars demise, there has been little change in the composition of reserve holdings.

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/toros_running_of_the_bull/2007/12/the-economist-o.html

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/toros_running_of_the_bull/2007/12/currency-reserv.html

Understand, though, that the actions of the Fed and what will occur with other central banks is bad for fiat currencies. I own a lot of gold for this reason. The euro simply cannot structurally continue to move higher. So as the the dollar devalues, other developed nations must follow or their economies will be wrecked.

Besides, the euro has many structural flaws, not least which are political.

As for the Iranian bourse thing, that is so incredibly over-blown. Because oil is an important input to the economy, people believe that the receipts generated by oil trading are also as important. In fact, oil trading accounts for ~1% of total currency trading each day. That's total oil. Iran accounts for about 4% of the world's oil trade and Venezuela less than 3%. Thus, we are to believe that ~0.07% of the volume of currency trading is going to lead to the end of the dollar as a reserve currency? I don't think so.

I am short the market as I think we are heading into a recession and stocks are going lower, but the end of the world is greatly exaggerated.

 

[nibor]

Well, THIS certainly would help.

Pauli I'm not clear on your point.........?

 

[Paulie]

Pauli I'm not clear on your point.........?

It's Ron Paul's "economic stimulus" plan.

Read it thoroughly. If you're a conservative, especially fiscal, you'll understand.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Toro, many prominent economies around the world are near ready to dump dollars for Euros. Iran is supposed to be getting their Oil Bourse online this year...this MONTH, actually. See here.

Saudi Arabia is taking sides with Iran, and threatening some of the same things. Venezuela is also.

The Fed is artificially propping up the economy on crutches right now, and the media is assisting by staying silent about it, and continuously pointing to the stock market as if somehow that's the KEY to figuring out the economy's current state. Of course, most idiot Americans think if the stock market isn't "crashing" then everything MUST be ok. The PPT is neck-deep in staving off a crash, and I actually think they're orchestrating a slow, controlled drop of the Dow down to 8,000. Possibly lower. Sort of a mini "put a frog in water and slowly bring to a boil, and it will stay in" type of scenario.

If anyone prominent in the international community goes Euro, the only 2 options for us will be deflate and just get the collapse finally going and get it over with...or hyper-inflate, and continue to stave off complete collapse, at the fatal expense of the middle class, which seems to me to be what the Fed is leaning towards. This "economic stimulus" package seems to be nothing more than a back-door approach at getting Americans to ACCEPT the hyper-inflation as "necessary". Because, of course, there's no other source for this 150 billion dollars other then the printing press. I seriously doubt China is going to be willing to lend us much more money. They very well could be waiting for the Olympics to be over before they THEMSELVES start dumping dollars.

Also, the fact that somewhere in the neighborhood of possibly 9 undersea network cables have been cut in areas around the middle east over the past 2 weeks is quite telling. Who would have that capability, and MOTIVE, if not the US? Trying to delay the currency-switch, maybe?

If YOU were someone in another country making economic decisions, whether they were personal, or for government, would YOU invest in US Dollars?

Tell me why you disagree with any of what I said.

Absolutely YES. I would be dumping Euros right now, not buying. Generally, the currency currently in favor is NOT the currency to be buying as it has already achieved close to its maximum worth. Like anything else, you want to buy what is near or at historical lows. I'd be loading up on dollars soon, if not already.

 

[nibor]

It's Ron Paul's "economic stimulus" plan.

Read it thoroughly. If you're a conservative, especially fiscal, you'll understand.

Does anyone actually believe that we couldn't go it alone............if we rebuilt our infrastructure................and said fuck off...............to all the nations milking us dry...................and said thanks but no thanks in a friendly sort of way.................stuffed the flippin' UN where they belong................and got down to business with the countries still left on our side, if ANY are...............do you actually think we'd dry up and blow away any worse THAN WE ALREADY ARE????????

 

[Paulie]

Absolutely YES. I would be dumping Euros right now, not buying. Generally, the currency currently in favor is NOT the currency to be buying as it has already achieved close to its maximum worth. Like anything else, you want to buy what is near or at historical lows. I'd be loading up on dollars soon, if not already.

Hey, that's great and all, but could you provide some specific reasons why?

 

[Paulie]

Does anyone actually believe that we couldn't go it alone............if we rebuilt our infrastructure................and said fuck off...............to all the nations milking us dry...................and said thanks but no thanks in a friendly sort of way.................stuffed the flippin' UN where they belong................and got down to business with the countries still left on our side, if ANY are...............do you actually think we'd dry up and blow away any worse THAN WE ALREADY ARE????????

I believe a truely free market worldwide would be the most beneficial to everyone. But we're the world's empire, and the dollar is the world's currency, so we need to be all over the world protecting the dollar from rogue nations like Iran and Venezuela from bucking the status-quo and propping up another currency. That's not a free market. That's us regulating the world, and getting our cut while we do it.

Eventually, empires collapse from being too over-stretched militarily, spending themselves into bankruptcy, and being generally irresponsible fiscally. Every single one in history has. Why should we believe that this one is any different?

Nations are sick and tired of us strong-arming them to maintain our hegemony. Eventually, when we've completely bankrupted ourselves, and we leave ourselves vulnerable to attack, nations will take advantage of that. Sure, we have tons of sophisticated weaponry, but what good does that really do us? It only leads to MORE WAR, and MORE DEATH.

We're not out "spreading democracy" around the world...we're out there maintaining our hegemony. Why people can't grasp that concept, especially with the idea being shown to them, I'll never know. I guess some people just feel better about themselves by thinking we're out there speading the love. Blind patriotism.

Stick a flag outside your house, stick a yellow ribbon on your car, and chant U-S-A! every once in a while when the time seems right.

 

[nibor]

I believe a truely free market worldwide would be the most beneficial to everyone. But we're the world's empire, and the dollar is the world's currency, so we need to be all over the world protecting the dollar from rogue nations like Iran and Venezuela from bucking the status-quo and propping up another currency. That's not a free market. That's us regulating the world, and getting our cut while we do it.

Eventually, empires collapse from being too over-stretched militarily, spending themselves into bankruptcy, and being generally irresponsible fiscally. Every single one in history has. Why should we believe that this one is any different?

Nations are sick and tired of us strong-arming them to maintain our hegemony. Eventually, when we've completely bankrupted ourselves, and we leave ourselves vulnerable to attack, nations will take advantage of that. Sure, we have tons of sophisticated weaponry, but what good does that really do us? It only leads to MORE WAR, and MORE DEATH.

We're not out "spreading democracy" around the world...we're out there maintaining our hegemony. Why people can't grasp that concept, especially with the idea being shown to them, I'll never know. I guess some people just feel better about themselves by thinking we're out there speading the love. Blind patriotism.

Stick a flag outside your house, stick a yellow ribbon on your car, and chant U-S-A! every once in a while when the time seems right.

ALL this nation plays on in accordence with the people creating the situation IS HEDGE MONEY............and there's nothing backing the actual GNP EXCEPT PAPER AND NUMBERS........with industry gone we can't even supply ourselves for the wars we project......................no shit we're not "spreading democracy" nor do WE WANT TO IN REALITY unless we want to be merely voted out of existence!!!!!!!!!!