The winning message

[LiberalNut]

It is my thesis that the latest election has nothing to do with the policy prescriptions of either party. Rather, it has to do with a deep seeded notion that grows every day that not only Washington but America itself is broken. From the department of war (ridiculously called defense) to corporations, to banks, to school boards to departement of public works in anthill sized towns, the "average Joe" just perceives that the system, in the widest sense of that word, is not responding to his needs.

Republicans did not win this election cause the people want some inane strict constitutionalism or radical libertarianism. In the previous two elections Democrats did not win because the people wanted a massive expansion of government involvement in the economy. Both parties won in those years for the same reason. The American voter is simply doing what they do, throwing out the party in power and putting in the other team. They will keep doing this, repeatedly, till something fundamental changes in the system, in the widest sense of that word.

Thus, the winning message is not "really" based on policy. The winning political message is to attack institutions, all kinds of institutions, repeatedly and then, once you get power, the way to retain it will be to get to work changing those institutions so that the "average Joe" perceives that you are at least trying to improve his lot in life.

Consider the New Deal. By any honest account, much of the early New Deal failed, miserably. Did the voters punish the Dems for this? No. Why? Cause they PERCEIVED that the system was TRYING to change and to change in thier favor.

The back and forth turbulence of the present body politic is inexorably moving in one direction. Radical change. The people who finally gain and HOLD power, like the dems did in the 30s and held on for 40 years, will be those who are willing to openly criticize the system, in the widest sense of that word, and then get about showing a lot of activity toward changing said system.

The new, New Deal is what is coming. Clearly I think it isn't going to be this crop of tea baggers that is going to bring it about.

 

[LiberalNut]

Why did my new thread get an "old" tag on it?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why did my new thread get an "old" tag on it?

Because it's old recycled Progressive ideas that have failed 100% of the time

 

[RadiomanATL]

Why did my new thread get an "old" tag on it?

It's an automatic thing.

Haven't really looked into it, but I think it has to do with the number of posts made after yours. Doesn't really have to do with whether or not it's a thread starter post or not. I think the software just sees that xxx number of posts have been made since yours.

I could be wrong. Like I said, I don't pay that much attention to it. I sort threads by using the "Active Topics" link on the menu bar.

 

[LiberalNut]

Because it's old recycled Progressive ideas

But I purposely didn't put any policy in the post. Indeed, the thesis of the post was against doing such a thing.

 

[topspin]

cause crying that they don't agree with your failed limosine liberal agenda is 2004

 

[RadiomanATL]

Ahhhh....I was wrong.

It means you've already read the OP.

Nevermind.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The New Deal was the biggest failure in recorded history, the only reason Obama and Krugman aren't laughed off the planet is because until recently Progressives have controlled the debate and have chalked up the New Deal as a big win.

That's done.

Obama's New Deal was aborted at the first possible chance voters had. Voters are rejecting "Mo n Bigga Gubbamint" as the answer to every problem real or imagined

 

[Urkie]

As I said in the other thread. Both parties are corrupt and people are starting to realize that.

The way to win over the people is to stop doing business the way it's been done the last 10, 20 maybe even 30 years. The system is broken and it needs to be fixed. I don't forsee either party fixing it though because both are greedy and both have an agenda that never changes.

If all else fails then just abolish political parties. That will make the country so much better imo.

 

[loosecannon]

The back and forth turbulence of the present body politic is inexorably moving in one direction. Radical change. The people who finally gain and HOLD power, like the dems did in the 30s and held on for 40 years, will be those who are willing to openly criticize the system, in the widest sense of that word, and then get about showing a lot of activity toward changing said system.

The new, New Deal is what is coming. Clearly I think it isn't going to be this crop of tea baggers that is going to bring it about.

but the dems just did this and all it did was piss Americans off. They spent a whole cycle promising hope and change and New Deals and America was underwhelmed because the economy still sucks.

Perhaps it is still the economy, stupid.

 

[B. Kidd]

Obama's magic # is less than 7.6% unemployment in order to get re-elected.

 

[RadiomanATL]

He wasn't referring to the New Deal as a positive or negative policy initiative.

The OP was referring to a paradigm shift of the role of government and its institutions. Same way the New Deal was.

 

[editec]

The electorate voted against those in power, not for those on the outs.

Let us remember, shall we, that they'd just done exactly the same thing just two brief years ago.

Now if the GOP hadn't been the party they American people just showed the door, just two years back, or if the GOP had come at this election with an all new improved plan, I might think that they were voted into office, rather than their opponents being voted out.

But seriously, the GOP is advocating same flawed policies they advocated under Bush II which the American people clearly rejected a couple years back.

Politcal campaigns aren't about policies or theory, they're about sound bite logic and attacks on character of the opponents

The voters seem to mostly hinge their favor on vague percerptions and (mostly now) they seem to vote out of not out of hope or fact, but out of spite.

Given the similarity between the parties (their rhetoric aside, their policies aren't all that different) I'd say that the American voters really have almost no choice BUT to vote based on sending a message.

Here's the message the voters are sending...We're sick to death of the lot of yas'.

 

[Ravi]

Ahhhh....I was wrong.

It means you've already read the OP.

Nevermind.

I didn't read the OP but I bet it will still say old when I look at the list again.

 

[LiberalNut]

cause crying that they don't agree with your failed limosine liberal agenda is 2004

I made no such complaint and your screed is pure boilerplate, completely devoid of information content. They, the average voter, don't perceive that the system has changed at all. They see the same old, same old. The system is responding to everything but their needs.

 

[LiberalNut]

The New Deal was the biggest failure in recorded history

I'd simply love to see something resembling empiricism to back that claim but I don't actually expect that any will be forthcoming.

 

[LiberalNut]

They spent a whole cycle promising hope and change

Oh, and the people clearly still want change, they just don't perceive that they got it. We aren't talking about tinkering around the edges here. The people want the system, in the widest sense of that word, to change radically.

 

[Flopper]

Nothing will change as long we have a two party system which is controlled by corporate and special interest groups.

 

[Urkie]

Nothing will change as long we have a two party system which is controlled by corporate and special interest groups.

Bingo!!! This is the write answer.

 

[LiberalNut]

Nothing will change as long we have a two party system which is controlled by corporate and special interest groups.

The reality of the Constitution, and specifically the need for an absolute majority in the electoral college, simply assures that there will be a dominant 2 party system in the United States. You can wail about how this is bad for the country but unless you are going to revamp article II and go to a parliamentary system, you're simply gonna have to live with the dominant two party system.

But, both parties being driven by corporate interests rather than voter interests is part of the broken system the electorate perceives. One huge part of the "winning message" is to attack, vigorously, corporate America.