The War on Christmas...

[Hobbit]

There wasn't anything remotely Christmas bashing in Bully's first post in this thread. If anything, it was a bash on nut-jobs, past and present, who cry "war on Christmas".





Nope, I hit it right on the head. This is about Christian unwillingness to share air time with anything non-Christian. I've heard it a thousand times...read it on this board several times too. "Christianty is the only true religion". Along with it goes, "Christmas is the only true holiday". :blah2: :blah2: :blah2:

Christmas is the only December holiday that's fully endorsed by the U.S. Congress. However, it is also the only December holiday that is not being publicly celebrated. No Christmas at government buildings. Half the retail outlets are skipping so as not to "offend" people. You know, July 14th is Bastille Day, and there are French people in America. Do we take down all of our patriotic paraphenalia on July 4th so as not to offend the French who celebrate Bastille Day? I think not. The main argument I have against all this suppression of Christmas is that it's a federal frickin' holiday, not an honorary holiday that's only celebrated in certain religious circles, but a federal holiday. All federal employees get the day off and it's a bill that is written in the congressional record. It's also not a "winter" festival either. According to the congressional mandate, December 25th is a day set aside to celebrate the teachings of Jesus Christ as a philosopher, not the fact that it's close to the winter solstice.

Edited to change Constitution, a mistype, to Congress, what I meant to say.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh, and while I'm at it, I see many of you who deny that there have been any lawsuits to take down Christmas displays from anywhere. Are you frickin' blind?! Do you not even remember last year when several Florida county sherrifs' offices came in in the dead of night and removed all Christmas trees, nativities, and any other mention of Christmas from all public property despite the fact that the numerous lawsuits against those public places were all dropped?

You've been begging for a link, and I have one from the ACLU's web site where they sued on behalf of a single resident of a town to have a nativity and menorah display removed from the front lawn of the city hall, and the ACLU never does anything once. If I had time to waste, I could probably dig up at least a dozen similar cases.

http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/16093prs20031222.html?ht=christmas christmas

 

[Max Power]

Christmas is the only December holiday that's fully endorsed by the U.S. Constitution.

Well, that's just 100% false.

 

[Hobbit]

Well, that's just 100% false.

I misspoke while typing fast. Fully endorsed by the U.S. Congress. Look it up.

 

[Max Power]

You've been begging for a link, and I have one from the ACLU's web site where they sued on behalf of a single resident of a town to have a nativity and menorah display removed from the front lawn of the city hall, and the ACLU never does anything once. If I had time to waste, I could probably dig up at least a dozen similar cases.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess since it was only one person, the first amendment doesn't apply.

 

[Max Power]

I misspoke while typing fast. Fully endorsed by the U.S. Congress. Look it up.

Okay. I know, Grant, 1870... but not the Constitution.

 

[Hobbit]

Okay. I know, Grant, 1870... but not the Constitution.

Like I said, it was an error. I really meant to type congress.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh I'm sorry, I guess since it was only one person, the first amendment doesn't apply.

I'd like to know how his first ammendment rights were violated. The scenes didn't force him to believe anything, and nothing about the first ammendment guarantees you'll have freedom from religion. The first ammendment also has no provisions in it for limited any government other than the federal. This was a local government, not to mention that he was the only one, and he wrecked it for everybody else because he's a hypersensitive asshole.

 

[Max Power]

I'd like to know how his first ammendment rights were violated. The scenes didn't force him to believe anything, and nothing about the first ammendment guarantees you'll have freedom from religion. The first ammendment also has no provisions in it for limited any government other than the federal. This was a local government, not to mention that he was the only one, and he wrecked it for everybody else because he's a hypersensitive asshole.

1. It has nothing to do with the scenes, if they were on private property, there would be no problem. The problem is that they were on public property. That is a voilation of the establishment clause.

2. The supremacy clause establishes that no local governments can contradict the constitution.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be Supreme Law of the land

Come on, this is Constitutional law 101.


And, he may have been a hypersensitive asshole, but he was correct.

 

[manu1959]

1. It has nothing to do with the scenes, if they were on private property, there would be no problem. The problem is that they were on public property. That is a voilation of the establishment clause.

2. The supremacy clause establishes that no local governments can contradict the constitution.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be Supreme Law of the land

Come on, this is Constitutional law 101.


And, he may have been a hypersensitive asshole, but he was correct.

explain to me why my grandmother can not have a nativity scene outside her flat on her front lawn which she pays to have mown in her olde folks community

 

[manu1959]

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/holidays.html

Christmas Day....any bets until this is changed

columbus day is already indigenous peoples day in my neck of the woods

 

[MissileMan]

Oh, and while I'm at it, I see many of you who deny that there have been any lawsuits to take down Christmas displays from anywhere. Are you frickin' blind?! Do you not even remember last year when several Florida county sherrifs' offices came in in the dead of night and removed all Christmas trees, nativities, and any other mention of Christmas from all public property despite the fact that the numerous lawsuits against those public places were all dropped?

You've been begging for a link, and I have one from the ACLU's web site where they sued on behalf of a single resident of a town to have a nativity and menorah display removed from the front lawn of the city hall, and the ACLU never does anything once. If I had time to waste, I could probably dig up at least a dozen similar cases.

http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/16093prs20031222.html?ht=christmas christmas

As I said before, one law suit by a whacko doesn't constitute a conspiracy to suppress Christmas. A dozen lawsuits by a dozen individual whackos isn't a conspiracy either. Search til your hearts content for any lawsuit involving the ACLU and the removal of Merry Christmas signs from Walmart and the like...your search will be fruitless. Show me evidence that these stores are all run by non-Christians with an anti-Christian agenda...sorry, it doesn't exist.
Post a letter from any of these companies saying that they are refraining from displaying Merry Christmas in order to appease the ACLU. I'll wager none exists.

There is a difference between removing religious symbols from government property and the total anihilation of all religious symbols, though a few of the folks around here can't see it.

And for the record, I am not anti-Christmas or anti-Christian. I am not offended by a nativity scene, cross, Christmas tree, wreath, whatever. I could also care less which religion anyone belongs to.

I AM, however, sick-to-death of all the whining.

 

[MissileMan]

explain to me why my grandmother can not have a nativity scene outside her flat on her front lawn which she pays to have mown in her olde folks community

I don't know. Could it be because ANY displays are against the rules? I'll need more info to say for sure.

 

[manu1959]

I don't know. Could it be because ANY displays are against the rules? I'll need more info to say for sure.

what rules could those possibly be? i thought freedom to practice religion and freedom of expression were guaranteed rights? just like the one to not be forced to put up a nativity scene or to protest the war?

so are you now for rules to prevent things you don't like or others complain about?

do iget to make a rule for my city no protesting the war because it upsets me and makes it hard for me to get to work and threatens my saftey when i walk from the train station to my office?

 

[Max Power]

explain to me why my grandmother can not have a nativity scene outside her flat on her front lawn which she pays to have mown in her olde folks community

Whoever owns the community has the final say.
That's how things work with ownership.

 

[Max Power]

what rules could those possibly be? i thought freedom to practice religion and freedom of expression were guaranteed rights? just like the one to not be forced to put up a nativity scene or to protest the war?

Rules don't apply to private property. I can throw you out of my house for practicing Christianity, if I choose. You are not protected by the first amendment in that scenario.

 

[manu1959]

Whoever owns the community has the final say.
That's how things work with ownership.

they are fee simple lots...she owns the dirt......their rules if they exist would violate US laws....

that said.... if i bought a town you live in...could i put a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn? after all i own the community....

 

[manu1959]

I don't know. Could it be because ANY displays are against the rules? I'll need more info to say for sure.

rules which are against the law can not be enforced....freedom of expression and freedom of religion are guaranteed in the laws of the US courts....

 

[Max Power]

they are fee simple lots...she owns the dirt......their rules if they exist would violate US laws....

that said.... if i bought a town you live in...could i put a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn? after all i own the community....

If you OWN the courthouse, then yes.
It wouldn't really be a courthouse if you owned it, though...

 

[manu1959]

sorry to post and run need to go pick up the kids