The Vietnam War

[harmonica]

the war was virtually unwinnable
the NVA/VC did not even have to fight

Oh, it was winnable all right. The only question becomes, are you willing to pay the price?

Largely, most wars the US starts the answer is no. They just want to go in and create a regime change and declare victory, while ISIS takes over in the power vacuum.

Anyone who wants to start a war should know this, in Nazi Germany after the US took over there were insurgencies for over a decade, and that is without any hostile foreign powers that bordered Germany aiding and arming the Nazi attackers.

no one attacked the US/etc
we were not going to win
popular opinion was against it

Popular opinion?

I think you are referring to American popular opinion, when in reality they should have been focused on the popular opinion of the Vietnamese whose country was devastated by American troops who were largely unable to tell the difference between friend or foe.

For example, had Hitler invaded Russia with the goal of liberating the people instead of conquering them becaise he viewed them as inferior, he would have easily routed the oppressive Stalin.

....there a very few examples [ if any ] post 1900 of countries invading another and completely taking it over/total victory
..can you name any?

....the US had overwhelming power/advantages/airpower/naval power/MANEUVER-tactical with helos/etc---and they LOST in Vietnam
..what makes you think hitler will defeat Russia AND England
..AND the partisans in Norway/Yugoslavia/Italy/France/etc etc ???

It's true that trying to obtain global power over everyone is like pounding sand. As we see, Hitler was vanquished but there are still Nazi's running round trying to influence people. You take out one murderous dictator only to have another spring up in it's place.

But if you live in a house and have ants, do you hire an exterminator to get rid of them with the full knowledge that they will just come back anyway?

These questions are not always easy to answer.

nazis running around is not a major problem--is it?

 

[Votto]

Oh, it was winnable all right. The only question becomes, are you willing to pay the price?

Largely, most wars the US starts the answer is no. They just want to go in and create a regime change and declare victory, while ISIS takes over in the power vacuum.

Anyone who wants to start a war should know this, in Nazi Germany after the US took over there were insurgencies for over a decade, and that is without any hostile foreign powers that bordered Germany aiding and arming the Nazi attackers.

so we go in and invade NV....this takes MASSIVE troops/$$$$$/time/logistics [ which we were NOT going to do ]
then we do a regime change like in Iraq/Afghanistan------then what???!!!

I'm not saying you should do any of those things. What I'm saying is be prepared to pay the cost before invading another country.

Sometimes, like with Germany, it's worth it, but most times it is not.

was Germany even worth it?
it was not a global economy like today
Germany could not have hurt us
they had, at best, their hands full with Russia

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

 

[harmonica]

so we go in and invade NV....this takes MASSIVE troops/$$$$$/time/logistics [ which we were NOT going to do ]
then we do a regime change like in Iraq/Afghanistan------then what???!!!

I'm not saying you should do any of those things. What I'm saying is be prepared to pay the cost before invading another country.

Sometimes, like with Germany, it's worth it, but most times it is not.

was Germany even worth it?
it was not a global economy like today
Germany could not have hurt us
they had, at best, their hands full with Russia

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

 

[Votto]

I'm not saying you should do any of those things. What I'm saying is be prepared to pay the cost before invading another country.

Sometimes, like with Germany, it's worth it, but most times it is not.

was Germany even worth it?
it was not a global economy like today
Germany could not have hurt us
they had, at best, their hands full with Russia

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

So from a Korean perspective, the US led war was well worth it.

However, from a US position it is rather nice having an ally in China's back yard, in addition to them aiding the world and US economy.

 

[harmonica]

was Germany even worth it?
it was not a global economy like today
Germany could not have hurt us
they had, at best, their hands full with Russia

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

So from a Korean perspective, the US led war was well worth it.

However, from a US position it is rather nice having an ally in China's back yard, in addition to them aiding the world and US economy.

and we are now competing with SKorea economically!! !!
we have Japan---there is no evidence having SK as an ally helps the US
we need to stay out of more of these worthless conflicts
AND that's worth 50,000 American lives?? PLUS hundreds of thousands of civilians/etc??
ask the mothers/fathers/sons/daughters of those dead--they would disagree

 

[harmonica]

was Germany even worth it?
it was not a global economy like today
Germany could not have hurt us
they had, at best, their hands full with Russia

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

So from a Korean perspective, the US led war was well worth it.

However, from a US position it is rather nice having an ally in China's back yard, in addition to them aiding the world and US economy.

so what's the price of a life x 50,000??

 

[Votto]

That is for you to decide.

Were they a threat to world wide freedom?

Was stopping the Holocaust worth it?

See, these are all questions you can debate all day.

Another question I have, was Korea worth it? Here we have US troops still over there after how many decades as the US is in the middle of a nuclear confrontation?

Then I see pictures of Korea at night, with half lit up and the upper half dark as night.

For those people in the South, the answer is clear, it was worth it, but from a US perspective, the answer might be different.

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

So from a Korean perspective, the US led war was well worth it.

However, from a US position it is rather nice having an ally in China's back yard, in addition to them aiding the world and US economy.

so what's the price of a life x 50,000??

Well I think SK has a population now of about 51 million, most of which would probably be dead under Fat boy.

 

[harmonica]

my father fought in Korea
like Vietnam, why would it be worth it??
we lost Vietnam, Cambodia, AND Laos---------
the US is still ok

That is from a US perspective, not a Korean one.

and?

So from a Korean perspective, the US led war was well worth it.

However, from a US position it is rather nice having an ally in China's back yard, in addition to them aiding the world and US economy.

so what's the price of a life x 50,000??

Well I think SK has a population now of about 51 million, most of which would probably be dead under Fat boy.

so what?
I doubt very much you can prove 50,000 American lives were worth it
....I don't know if it was here, but I've asked these questions before.....what would a reasonable scenario be if we did not fight in Korea? --- the Vietnam War--well---we know the answer to that one!!!!!!
..for it to be worth you would have to prove the US would go into a Great Depression if we did not fight it--I don't see that