The USA Of Hate

[Madeline]

Okay, all you Islamophobes, let's alter the US constitution and its laws so that you can tell us exactly what kind of country we'll all be living in if you get your way.

What alteration do we make to the First Amendment? Here it is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So, presumably y'all want to "define religion" so that Islam does not qualify? How so? What rights would American Muslims lose that they could not assert as free speech and freedom of assembly? I guess we need to curtail those as well?

My research did not turn up any SCOTUS decision directly on-point; "religion" is apparently rather undefined in US law at this time.

I assume we need to change our immigration laws, so that no (?) Middles Eastern person, resident of any Arab state or adherent of Islam can emigrate here? How so?

Do we eject non-citizen Muslims here on otherwise valid visas?

Do we force citizen Muslims into internment camps?

Do we pass new RICO laws, so suing Muslims is easier? How do we exempt the RCC from such laws -- or do we? You may want to look over the following lawsuit...a "christian" group in Tennessee is attempting to prevent the building of a mosque on the grounds that "Islam is not a religion".

Legitimacy of Islam at heart of Murfreesboro mosque suit | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Let's have the conversation because I, for one, want to see exactly what y'all have planned for the land Of The Free And The Home Of The Brave. I suspect I won't recognize my country when y'all get done making these changes.

 

[boedicca]

Tolerance is neither Endorsement nor approval.

Muslims are just as free to exercise (or not) their religion in the U.S. as are any other groups and individuals. They are also equally subject to criticism.

 

[Revere]

Sharia courts would "respect the establisment of religion."

 

[Madeline]

Sharia courts would "respect the establisment of religion."

Not unless they only dealt with religious issues, Revere. E.g., excommunication, reconciliation, etc. If they attempted to cope with domestic violence, other criminal acts and family law, they'd usurp the jurisdiction of the US courts. I don't see that ever passing constititutional muster here.

 

[Revere]

Sharia courts would "respect the establisment of religion."

Not unless they only dealt with religious issues, Revere. E.g., excommunication, reconciliation, etc. If they attempted to cope with domestic violence, other criminal acts and family law, they'd usurp the jurisdiction of the US courts. I don't see that ever passing constititutional muster here.

They don't only deal with religious issues. Sharia deals with a wide spectrum of civil law ranging from marital rights to banking and finance.

 

[Madeline]

Sharia courts would "respect the establisment of religion."

Not unless they only dealt with religious issues, Revere. E.g., excommunication, reconciliation, etc. If they attempted to cope with domestic violence, other criminal acts and family law, they'd usurp the jurisdiction of the US courts. I don't see that ever passing constititutional muster here.

They don't only deal with religious issues. Sharia deals with a wide spectrum of civil law ranging from marital rights to banking and finance.

I am aware that it has been employed in that fashion, and I am not sure how. According to an article CG linked awhile back, this sort of thing happens in the UK. That baffles me...but I'm hardly an expert on UK law.

In family law, you and your spouse could agree to the terms of a divorce, regarding property, child custody, etc. and file a petition to have the court approve it. 99% of the time, the court probably would grant exactly the order petitioned for....but if a third person informed the court of abuse, duress, or neglect, that court would almost certainly open the matter up for examination and make its own ruling.

In contract law or tort law, two competent adults can agree to alternative dispute resolution. The American Arbitration Association handles many such cases now -- if you have a Gateway computer, any breach of warranty claim you'd have is enforcable only in an AAA proceeding. This could work to force/allow people to use religious courts as long as no third party's rights were impaired, e.g., a homeowner's insurance company.

The point of CG's article about Sharia Law in the UK I found most baffling was this: allowing religious courts to cope with criminal law. You assault me and I am not looking to the DA to prosecute you, instead I am looking to religious elders? That is beyond me to imagine in the US.

 

[Madeline]

What isn't wrong with Sharia law? | Law | guardian.co.uk

Sharia Law also contemplates inheritance. I fail to see how such alternative dispute resolution could usurp the Probate Courts jurisdiction, or the US law of Inheritance, etc.

 

[Revere]

What isn't wrong with Sharia law? | Law | guardian.co.uk

Sharia Law also contemplates inheritance. I fail to see how such alternative dispute resolution could usurp the Probate Courts jurisdiction, or the US law of Inheritance, etc.

It should not, and I don't see anything in your OP that says it will.

Your extrapolations about cultural or religious issues have no foundation.

 

[Madeline]

What isn't wrong with Sharia law? | Law | guardian.co.uk

Sharia Law also contemplates inheritance. I fail to see how such alternative dispute resolution could usurp the Probate Courts jurisdiction, or the US law of Inheritance, etc.

It shoud not, and I don't see anything in your OP that says it will.

Your extrapolations about cultural or religious issues have no foundation.

I have been posting on a thread about Islamophobia, Revere. I wrote this Op in order to invite comments about how the US constitution should be altered in the view of those who hate Muslims, and feel Islam is a criminal conspiracy we need to ban here.

 

[SGdsn]

Who's saying any of this? I hate when people half pay attention to what people are saying just so they can say what they want to say and then grill others for something they never said.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Okay, all you Islamophobes, let's alter the US constitution and its laws so that you can tell us exactly what kind of country we'll all be living in if you get your way.

What alteration do we make to the First Amendment? Here it is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So, presumably y'all want to "define religion" so that Islam does not qualify? How so? What rights would American Muslims lose that they could not assert as free speech and freedom of assembly? I guess we need to curtail those as well?

My research did not turn up any SCOTUS decision directly on-point; "religion" is apparently rather undefined in US law at this time.

I assume we need to change our immigration laws, so that no (?) Middles Eastern person, resident of any Arab state or adherent of Islam can emigrate here? How so?

Do we eject non-citizen Muslims here on otherwise valid visas?

Do we force citizen Muslims into internment camps?

Do we pass new RICO laws, so suing Muslims is easier? How do we exempt the RCC from such laws -- or do we? You may want to look over the following lawsuit...a "christian" group in Tennessee is attempting to prevent the building of a mosque on the grounds that "Islam is not a religion".

Legitimacy of Islam at heart of Murfreesboro mosque suit | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Let's have the conversation because I, for one, want to see exactly what y'all have planned for the land Of The Free And The Home Of The Brave. I suspect I won't recognize my country when y'all get done making these changes.

I'm sorry. Was this thread about you ASKING us what we think, or TELLING us what we think?

 

[Revere]

Who says some judge somewhere in the US won't allow sharia courts?

 

[The Infidel]

Bottom line.... THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO place in The Constitution for sharia law.... PERIOD!

We are Americans and we all SHOULD be dealt with in the same manner, under the same laws.

 

[JBeukema]

Sharia courts would "respect the establisment of religion."

Same as any Jewish church following Leviticus...

 

[Foxfyre]

If American Muslims believe women are inferior to men, believe in honor killings, believe in Jihad, believe in all of Sharia Law, that is their right. Up to a point. But Muslims cannot do what would be criminal or a violation of rights to people with impunity any more than Methodists or Orthodox Jews can. And they are outside of the law if they teach others to violate the law.

It is the right of Muslim funded schools to teach Muslim concepts just as any Roman Catholic or Presbyterian school would teach religious concepts. But if a Muslim school wishes to be accredited by the State, it will also have to teach government, Constitution, concepts of rights, and other sociopolitical curriculum just as all other schools are required to do.

Muslims deserve no special consideration or exemptions any more than any other group deserves special consideraton or exemptions. Live under American laws and culture or go somewhere else.

 

[Madeline]

Okay, all you Islamophobes, let's alter the US constitution and its laws so that you can tell us exactly what kind of country we'll all be living in if you get your way.

What alteration do we make to the First Amendment? Here it is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So, presumably y'all want to "define religion" so that Islam does not qualify? How so? What rights would American Muslims lose that they could not assert as free speech and freedom of assembly? I guess we need to curtail those as well?

My research did not turn up any SCOTUS decision directly on-point; "religion" is apparently rather undefined in US law at this time.

I assume we need to change our immigration laws, so that no (?) Middles Eastern person, resident of any Arab state or adherent of Islam can emigrate here? How so?

Do we eject non-citizen Muslims here on otherwise valid visas?

Do we force citizen Muslims into internment camps?

Do we pass new RICO laws, so suing Muslims is easier? How do we exempt the RCC from such laws -- or do we? You may want to look over the following lawsuit...a "christian" group in Tennessee is attempting to prevent the building of a mosque on the grounds that "Islam is not a religion".

Legitimacy of Islam at heart of Murfreesboro mosque suit | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Let's have the conversation because I, for one, want to see exactly what y'all have planned for the land Of The Free And The Home Of The Brave. I suspect I won't recognize my country when y'all get done making these changes.

I'm sorry. Was this thread about you ASKING us what we think, or TELLING us what we think?

As I mentioned, I have been posting to this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/135461-all-of-you-islamophobic-zomg-teh-sharia-law-is-coming-to-get-you-bedwetters.html

I don't recall that you have, Cecilie. In fact, if you have expressed an opinion about American Muslims, I missed it.

Of course I want to know if you see a problem and what you want done about it.

 

[Madeline]

Who says some judge somewhere in the US won't allow sharia courts?

No one needs to allow any form of alternative dispute resolution UNLESS the US court system has exclusive jurisdiction, e.g., criminal court, family court and probate court.

 

[007]

Why did you title this thread "The USA of Hate?" Is that your way of insulting America?

 

[Madeline]

Bottom line.... THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO place in The Constitution for sharia law.... PERIOD!

We are Americans and we all SHOULD be dealt with in the same manner, under the same laws.

I disagree in part and agree in part. If Sharia Law calls for the execution of a person for an act of sexual misconduct, anyone who tried to enforce that decision in the US would be guilty of attempted murder. Just as any other religious person, an American Muslim must abide by US law first and his faith second when he makes choices that impact the rights of others.

BTW, to the best of my knowledge, this is exactly what does happen now.

On the other hand, if two adults who are American Muslims wanted to submit their property line dispute to a religious court rather than a local civil court, I see no reason why they should be prevented from doing so.

 

[Madeline]

Why did you title this thread "The USA of Hate?" Is that your way of insulting America?

Of course not, Pale. I was asking the USMB-ers who so adamantly claim we "must stop Muslims" from following Islam in this country just exactly how they want the First Amendment, etc., rewritten.