The US started the Korean war??

[Ringel05]

Soviet forces invaded Korea in August of '45, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10th.
At that time they agreed to a US proposal to stop their advance instead of taking the entire peninsula.

"The Red Army handed power over to the Korean Workers’ Party,(in the north) headed by Kim Il-sung, a legendary guerrilla leader who had fought the Japanese in Manchuria (where there is a large ethnic Korean population)."

Right. They handed power over to 'Great Leader.'

Yes, the Communist turned power over to Kim Il Sung, the insane dictator of North Korea that turned that part of the peninsula into the amazing hell hole that it is today. Large numbers purges and disappearances, constant political indoctrination, destruction of civil liberties, overwhelming censorship - if there's one place where Orwell's dystopia came true, it was North Korea. The society there is barely able to feed itself.

Tens of thousands of South Koreans have been swallowed up by his policy of impressment and kidnapping as well.

Though I hear he had good taste in Hollywood movies, so there is that.

Contrast that polcy with US reliance in the south with a majority of big Korean businessmen and landowners who collaborated with Japanese colonial rule. Those "free elections" you mentioned took place after USAMGIK outlawed the PRK Revolutionary Government and PRK Peoples Committees on December 12, 1945 and after a declaration of martial law.

You mean the creation of the thriving democracy in South Korea? Yes, lets contrast that, shall we? One of the Young Dragons with a great standard of living, freedoms and human rights, vs one of the most dysfunctional societies with the worse record of human rights in the world.

You didn't really think about that one when you posted it, did you? LOL.

Kim had a lot of help from the USAF in creating "the hell-hole" of North Korea. According to some accounts there were nine million Koreans living north of the 38th parallel in June of 1950. When the war ended one out of three was dead.

US aircraft dropping for-profit bombs leveled every city, village, and town, then came back and turned the rubble into dust. There's no way to defend the monster Kim became; however, you can't ignore the devastation of his country by the USA that encouraged his authoritarianism.

It's also useful the note Kim's resistance to the Japanese occupation and contrast that with the authoritarian the US selected to rule in the south:

"Kim was appointed commander of the 6th division in 1937, at the age of 24, controlling a few hundred men in a group that came to be known as 'Kim Il Sung’s division.' It was while he was in command of this division that he executed a raid on Poch’onbo, on 4 June.

"Although Kim’s division only captured a small Japanese-held town just across the Korean border for a few hours, it was nonetheless considered a military success at this time, when the guerrilla units had experienced difficulty in capturing any enemy territory."

Kim Il-sung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What contributions to Korean independence did Syngman Rhee make around a decade before Kim was risking his life?

"In 1919, all of the major pro-independence factions formed the Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea in Shanghai. Rhee was elected the president, a post he held for six years. In 1925 he was removed from office following his impeachment by the Provisional Assembly for misuse of his authority— an event that would foreshadow his later political career."

Syngman Rhee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You apparently didn't think about where that "thriving democracy" in South Korea got its start.

"In December 1945, Korea was administered by a United States–Soviet Union Joint Commission, as agreed at the Moscow Conference (1945). The Koreans were excluded from the talks. The commission decided the country would become independent after a five-year trusteeship action facilitated by each régime sharing its sponsor's ideology.[49][50]

"The Korean populace revolted; in the south, some protested, and some rose in arms;[22] to contain them, the USAMGIK banned strikes on 8 December 1945 and outlawed the PRK Revolutionary Government and the PRK People's Committees on 12 December 1945."

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Had the US not intervened in Korean reunification efforts in late 1945 it's highly possible Lyuh Woon-hyung and the KPR would have found true independence without the need for war or any other authoritarian/capitalistic/communistic measures.

Hence US actions did, in fact, lead directly to the Korean War.

Talk about twisting and omitting facts to promote one's personal propaganda, holy shit!!!!
You are one fucked up individual. Dayamn!!

 

[georgephillip]

Sorry, not interested in your, or his "agenda" based on twisted facts and partial truths, this agenda driven revisionist crap has no place in academia, it belongs in the same categories of conspiracy theory and propaganda.
Who do I turn to? Piers Brandon, Matthew Cooper, Alan Clark, Stephan E. Ambrose, James Lucas, Christopher Browning, Martin Van Creveld, Lewis Henry Morgan, Eric Wolf, to name a very few, you know, accredited, recognized and in some instances acclaimed historians, historical sociologists and cultural anthropologists.

Do you believe in the existence of the Council on Foreign Relations and its Grand Area?

"When (WWII) war broke out, the Council (on Foreign Relations) began a 'strictly confidential' project called the War and Peace Studies, in which top CFR members collaborated with the US State Department in determining US policy, and the project was entirely financed by the Rockefeller Foundation.[12]

"The War and Peace Studies project had come up with a number of initiatives for the post-War world. One of the most important objectives it laid out was the identification of what areas of the world America would need to control in order to facilitate strong economic growth. This came to be known as the 'Grand Area,' and it included:

"Latin America, Europe, the colonies of the British Empire, and all of Southeast Asia. Southeast Asia was necessary as a source of raw materials for Great Britain and Japan and as a consumer of Japanese products.

"The American national interest was then defined in terms of the integration and defense of the Grand Area, which led to plans for the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank and eventually to the decision to defend Vietnam from a Communist takeover at all costs.[13]"

The Council on Foreign Relations and the

Yeah? So?

So yeah, the decision to defend Vietnam from the overwhelming majority of its citizens resulted in the murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of Vietnamese. Only a brain-dead super-bitch like you could miss that.

 

[Ringel05]

Do you believe in the existence of the Council on Foreign Relations and its Grand Area?

"When (WWII) war broke out, the Council (on Foreign Relations) began a 'strictly confidential' project called the War and Peace Studies, in which top CFR members collaborated with the US State Department in determining US policy, and the project was entirely financed by the Rockefeller Foundation.[12]

"The War and Peace Studies project had come up with a number of initiatives for the post-War world. One of the most important objectives it laid out was the identification of what areas of the world America would need to control in order to facilitate strong economic growth. This came to be known as the 'Grand Area,' and it included:

"Latin America, Europe, the colonies of the British Empire, and all of Southeast Asia. Southeast Asia was necessary as a source of raw materials for Great Britain and Japan and as a consumer of Japanese products.

"The American national interest was then defined in terms of the integration and defense of the Grand Area, which led to plans for the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank and eventually to the decision to defend Vietnam from a Communist takeover at all costs.[13]"

The Council on Foreign Relations and the

Yeah? So?

So yeah, the decision to defend Vietnam from the overwhelming majority of its citizens resulted in the murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of Vietnamese. Only a brain-dead super-bitch like you could miss that.

Yup, it's all America's fault, no one else had anything to do with it, no one else was involved and no one else did anything that could have been done differently.
And talk about pulling shit out of one's ass:

defend Vietnam from the overwhelming majority

Yeah, you have legitimate, non-interpreted, verifiable evidence of this..........? Sure ya do.........

 

[georgephillip]

How likely is it a majority of Vietnamese would have voted against Ho Chi Minh in 1954?

"The Battle of Dien Bien Phu and the 1954 Geneva Accords had put an end to the French war to restore their colonial rule in Indochina. The Accords promised to reunite the country through democratic elections.

"Since it seemed clear that the party of Ho Chi Minh would win those elections, the Eisenhower administration refused to allow them to be held, and installed an unpopular anti-communist government in South Vietnam, which by 1962 was totally discredited and risked collapsing in the face of an internal insurrection."

Vol 19 number 10 Text Version

 

[Ringel05]

How likely is it a majority of Vietnamese would have voted against Ho Chi Minh in 1954?

"The Battle of Dien Bien Phu and the 1954 Geneva Accords had put an end to the French war to restore their colonial rule in Indochina. The Accords promised to reunite the country through democratic elections.

"Since it seemed clear that the party of Ho Chi Minh would win those elections, the Eisenhower administration refused to allow them to be held, and installed an unpopular anti-communist government in South Vietnam, which by 1962 was totally discredited and risked collapsing in the face of an internal insurrection."

Vol 19 number 10 Text Version

What part of "non-interpreted" don't you understand? Nothing else was going on between other players in the game? Still omitting pertinent information I see.

 

[georgephillip]

How likely is it a majority of Vietnamese would have voted against Ho Chi Minh in 1954?

"The Battle of Dien Bien Phu and the 1954 Geneva Accords had put an end to the French war to restore their colonial rule in Indochina. The Accords promised to reunite the country through democratic elections.

"Since it seemed clear that the party of Ho Chi Minh would win those elections, the Eisenhower administration refused to allow them to be held, and installed an unpopular anti-communist government in South Vietnam, which by 1962 was totally discredited and risked collapsing in the face of an internal insurrection."

Vol 19 number 10 Text Version

What part of "non-interpreted" don't you understand? Nothing else was going on between other players in the game? Still omitting pertinent information I see.

Pertinent information you seem incapable of revealing.

 

[Ringel05]

How likely is it a majority of Vietnamese would have voted against Ho Chi Minh in 1954?

"The Battle of Dien Bien Phu and the 1954 Geneva Accords had put an end to the French war to restore their colonial rule in Indochina. The Accords promised to reunite the country through democratic elections.

"Since it seemed clear that the party of Ho Chi Minh would win those elections, the Eisenhower administration refused to allow them to be held, and installed an unpopular anti-communist government in South Vietnam, which by 1962 was totally discredited and risked collapsing in the face of an internal insurrection."

Vol 19 number 10 Text Version

What part of "non-interpreted" don't you understand? Nothing else was going on between other players in the game? Still omitting pertinent information I see.

Pertinent information you seem incapable of revealing.

It's called the whole story, you posted a link that provides some of the other data and there's even more out there though much of it is in book form. Do you require a syllabus with reading references or are you open minded and and intelligent enough to locate as many other sources as possible? Not sure why I asked the latter, so far you've shown no indication of either, why should I expect any different.

 

[georgephillip]

How are you defining "non-interpreted?"

 

[georgephillip]

Funny that Chomsky would agree with Kim Il Jung.

But then, he was famously known for downplaying the massive deaths in Cambodia, claiming that journalists who were reporting on the fact were lying.

Chomsky lies: denial of the Khmer Rouge holocaust in Cambodia.

He also wants the end of Israel, and has provided the forward to a book known for holocaust denial. Odd for a jew? Why yes. But then, the person making that claim is none other than Alan Dershowitz.
Chomsky's Immoral Divestiture Petition - The Tech

He's an ideologue, and doesn't let facts get in the way of his foreign policy analysis.

Funnier how Chomsky and Kim saw the obvious corporate corruption behind US policies toward South Korea and South Vietnam:

"The strength and resilience of the Vietnamese revolution reside not in the genes of the Vietnamese, but in their culture and social structure. If these can be destroyed and an artificial consumer society of atomized individuals erected in their stead, the United States will have achieved its victory. As elsewhere in East Asia, there is an (uneasy) alliance between the United States and Japan to this end.

"The editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review puts it as follows:

"'In 1968 the farsighted premier of North Vietnam, Pham Van Dong, reportedly told a visitor that his country, having successfully fought the Chinese, the Japanese, the French and the Americans, would next have to fight the Japanese.

"'The population of the South,' he said, 'had been driven by war into the cities and were there becoming corrupted by the desire for consumer goods, for Sony transistors and Honda motorcycles.

"'Only Japan could supply such urban markets in Asia. Kim Il Sung of North Korea also saw the southern half of the Korean peninsula falling under Japanese economic domination.'"

Mayday: The Case for Civil Disobedience, by Noam Chomsky

Noam was never known for "downplaying" the murders of Pol Pot,
He was known for being suspicious of the numbers when they were first reported.
He also made sure Americans knew of the role their government's murderous bombing campaign played in bringing a monster like Pol Pot to power.

As far as Israel in concerned, Chomsky is well aware of how one-third of the population of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on their neighbors in 1948.

Which makes you short on facts and long on ideology.