The US Is Perceived Differently

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Annie, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    by other countries. This essay is touching on something that certainly seems to be effecting the US in serious ways:

    http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/Comment/Aug04/index237.shtml

     
  2. Zhukov
    Offline

    Zhukov VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,492
    Thanks Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Everywhere, simultaneously.
    Ratings:
    +301
    I suspect and hope this is because we've only really seen one side of the contest so far, that being the selection of the Democratic nominee, what he has to say, and the administration's various responses to him.

    I expect a more thorough discussion of where we were, where we are, and where we are going during the President's second-term.

    The RNC will be the opportunity for Republicans to discuss something other than Vietnam, namely the infinitely more relevant trials and successes of the past four years. It's been reported that the task of describing a second-term will be the President's alone, on the last day of the convention.

    Further, Sen. Kerry has repeatedly come striding forward in the last days or weeks of elections to win. I would assume Karl Rove is taking this fact under consideration, and accordingly saving strength for the fight he believes will last right up to Election Day.
     
  3. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    I think the author knows the truth but is hoping for the best in asking "Is America in strong and silent mode?"

    this country is facing a lack of leadership from both parties, politicians who want to focus on what divides us rather than the issues that we must unite to overcome.

    whether you supported the decision to invade/liberate iraq or not, everyone sees this is an issue that divided the country deeply.
    gays, guns and God are three others that have divided the country deeply.

    for the record, i am against gay marriage (but want to leave it to the states), against more gun control (we already have way too much) and think God is owned by neither party, even though the party I belong to (GOP) has many who seem to believe they have exclusive rights to him.
    and i was for liberating iraq.

    i see honorable viewpoints on the opposing side, but i think everyone should start talking about the issues we need to spend some time on as well

    in no particular order

    CHINA, Wage Growth vs. Cost Of Living, Trade and Budget Deficeits, Crumbling Energy,Transporation, Health and Educational Infrastructure, the environment(are we going to care about animals more than we care about our economy and our rights to peaceful sanctuary), and a lack of true, effective leadership abroad that stops focusing on just the war on terror (against islamic fundamentalists) and takes into account those regimes who terrorize their own people and others
     
  4. ScreamingEagle
    Offline

    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,610
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +2,159
    I don't think Mr. Warren is giving enough weight to the Christian and "post-Christian" argument that America is waging. Perhaps living in a "post-Christian" country he does not realize how we value the importance of good character in a President. There is still a majority of Christians in America and this issue cuts to the very essence and heart of our country. That is truely the elephant in the room, not the cockroach in the sink.
     
  5. busch2008
    Online

    busch2008 Guest

    Ratings:
    +0


    Interesting, though I'm not sure where he's trying to go with his essay. We need to stop comparing our republic to places like Algeria, Zimbabwe and Venezuela when we want to make the case that the criticism of our electoral system is invalid.

    Americans need to realize that we are far from the only free nation on
    Earth. In fact, several countries around the world could be considered "more free" then we are. That is, they have governments that are less restrictive then ours. Our government has a tendancy to fill-up prisons with its own citizens for petty crimes. Other Western nations don't do this.

    What really separates us from everyone else is our enormous military power. Desipite this, is it really realistic to think Europe or Japan could not defend themselves if need be from just about any military threat? The difference is we are willing to use military power at the drop of a hat. Does that make us a better country then other Western Democracies? I used to think America stood at the head of the Western democracies. That is no longer the case. We are now viewed as a selfish bully.

    We are a planetary adult among infants? That's not true. We are more like a middle school bully.
     
  6. dilloduck
    Offline

    dilloduck Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    53,240
    Thanks Received:
    5,552
    Trophy Points:
    1,850
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +6,403
    drop of a hat??????? do you see any bombs dropping on NK or Iran right now??? this is called restraint and diplomacy !!!!!!!!
     
  7. tim_duncan2000
    Offline

    tim_duncan2000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    694
    Thanks Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +66
    Many of these countries also have extremely high taxes, a lot of anti-Semitism (France), they can tell people what video games and movies they can and cannot have, and often have very harsh gun control laws.
     
  8. Comrade
    Offline

    Comrade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,873
    Thanks Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Seattle, WA.
    Ratings:
    +167
    I get the feeling there is very little real honest debate in the global arena about Bush vs. Kerry and the ramifications of foreign policy among each potential administration.

    I say foreign policy, because unless other citizens are acting pretentious, they really could give two squirts about our domestic policy, insofar as that would effect international relations.

    And this inevitably leads to discussion on Iraq, which any smug European can tell us, Bush had completely violated all aspects of civil discourse and behavior in carrying through. Sometimes he's faulted on recent events such as Abu Gharaib, sometimes it goes back to 'his' failure to establish law and order immediately after Saddam vacated power, to protect the zoo and museums, or be mindfull of civilian deaths 'only now' apparent without Saddam in charge and sanctions in placde.

    But more often that not this leads back even further, even before Bush's lack of respect for UN diplomacy on Saddam's display of good behavior (while the UN adminstration collected vast sums of oil bribes illegally, an issue now strangely 'dissappered'), until I see a memory in my mind of anti-Bush rhetoric related to actions well before Iraq was on the map... running backwards it was the 'war crimes' against Afgan fighters in Guantanomo, or the 'CIA sponsored' massacre of prisoners among POW camps in Northern alliance controlled camps, to how Bush failed to keep them from taking revenge upon them in brutal fashion, and additionally our failure to let humanitarian aid through in war torn areas, before that was the 'dishonorable combat' from above and with superior firepower, lust for civilian casualties. Bush should never have challenged the Taliban without proof of harbouring Osama, failed to give time for them to capture him and treat it like a law enforcement issue, assumed they were lying about not knowing Osama's whereabouts.

    Beyond the one week reprieve America had after 9/11, was how Bush risked war by 'violating' the missle defence treaty with Russia, or what appeared to be some kind of criminal act from failing to support Kyoto.

    And before that it was how stupid he sounded, or that he was from Texas, or he was a Christian.

    And going back to the very start, how the world felt he had 'cheated' his way to election.


    So, in a nutshell, Bush never could win. He was doomed to be a black swan, simply because the bulk of our allies were from the starty, far more left than even Clinton was trying to be. The Iraqi issue is meaningless in the grand scheme.


    The further left of our 'allied' Democracies really don't care if Kerry comes out and admits something like:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/09/kerry.iraq/

    "Kerry stands by 'yes' vote on Iraq war"


    He had them at 'hello'.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1

Share This Page