The Universe: Eternal or no?

However in this case, both science AND religion fail big time. For something to exist then it must be created, but what created that which created it, and then what created that before that? Neither will ever answer this one epic question, and some who have pondered it too much have gone insane for obvious reasons. What created the creator?

That's why Buddhist philosophy transcends creation myths. The world appears solid and unchanging, but when examined closely it is neither.

Matter is merely atoms with alot of empty space in continuous motion. Even atoms when examined have no solidity or permanence.

The world appears to us through our five senses, and it is compelling. But the dream world appears to us in exactly the same way, and when we wake up, it vanishes.

Similarly, when we go to sleep, the 'waking world' vanishes, and we move in a dream world, with seemingly real experiences.

When we die, its just like waking up from one dream into the next.

Everything is in a continual dance of moving in and out of existence.
 
However in this case, both science AND religion fail big time. For something to exist then it must be created, but what created that which created it, and then what created that before that? Neither will ever answer this one epic question, and some who have pondered it too much have gone insane for obvious reasons. What created the creator?

Depends on what parameters you put on a creator. In Judeo-Christianity, the Creator has always been. In this regard, religion doesn't fail.

In reality though, a creator only has to be a life form beyond Man's intellect and/or capabilities. In this case, both science and religion fail to explain the origin of the creator.
 
That's why Buddhist philosophy transcends creation myths. The world appears solid and unchanging, but when examined closely it is neither.

Matter is merely atoms with alot of empty space in continuous motion. Even atoms when examined have no solidity or permanence.

The world appears to us through our five senses, and it is compelling. But the dream world appears to us in exactly the same way, and when we wake up, it vanishes.

Similarly, when we go to sleep, the 'waking world' vanishes, and we move in a dream world, with seemingly real experiences.

When we die, its just like waking up from one dream into the next.

Everything is in a continual dance of moving in and out of existence.

So, in Buddhist philosophy life is eternal ... only the form that life inhabits changes?
 
I understand what you are saying. Your last sentence though ... which "God folk?" My take on it is he created what is within the universe.

Don't you consider yourself a believer in a Creator God? The evidence does not exist for the belief, but I accept that you believe in a personified creator God with a gender.

What is God to you?

It's interesting this thread is on the science forum, but nowadays physics and theology often meet. The Dalai Lama loves to talk to scientists.
 
So, in Buddhist philosophy life is eternal ... only the form that life inhabits changes?

No. That's not quite true. Buddhism is the path of the middle way--neither believing in eternalism nor nihilism.

In one manner of speaking, you are getting close. We talk about consciousness, and awareness quite a bit in Buddhism.

We discuss what happens in the dying process and what happens after this life.
 
I understand what you are saying. Your last sentence though ... which "God folk?" My take on it is he created what is within the universe.

Yes. I follow what you are saying is that God created the universe. You cannot say the universe is eternal.

More likely, IMO, universes pass in and out of existence. Why wouldn't they? Everything else we know about changes.

A belief in an eternal God is illogical. But that's ok. Beliefs are beliefs.

What gets interesting to me is when we start discussing what we think God is. That's when we can begin to approach each other more closely, no matter what our creeds.
 
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Depends on what parameters you put on a creator. In Judeo-Christianity, the Creator has always been. In this regard, religion doesn't fail.

In reality though, a creator only has to be a life form beyond Man's intellect and/or capabilities. In this case, both science and religion fail to explain the origin of the creator.

This is very true. One thing many atheists I have spoken to about science neglect to consider is that the parameters for much of the theories are still too abstract for science to utilize, much less explain. Though science is nothing more than a label for things which can be proven, and if time permits may someday prove much more than we can even foresee, there is still a lot that our science has yet to touch on. One great example is how far we reach into space, the further we go, the more we learn that there is soooooo much more out there. Until something can be given an absolute there is no way our science can come close. This is why some form (any form) of religion is required for true happiness and enlightenment. Until science can answer everything, many need something to look forward to and religion offers that.
 
Yes. I follow what you are saying is that God created the universe. You cannot say the universe is eternal.

More likely, IMO, universes pass in and out of existence. Why wouldn't they? Everything else we know about changes.

A belief in an eternal God is illogical. But that's ok. Beliefs are beliefs.

What gets interesting to me is when we start discussing what we think God is. That's when we can begin to approach each other more closely, no matter what our creeds.

I am responding backwardly, to the last part it's not the topic that makes it easier to discuss, it's that not one person in this conversation has said "that's the way it is and there can be no other." So long as everyone involved maintains civility in any discussion this is the result.

Now, as for the eternal, I still believe you are mixing up terms. Again, even science calls the universe eternal, the only thing that changes is it's form and shape. Fluid was the word I would describe it as.
 
Everything in the universe is impermanent. Some of the stars we see in the heavens have already passed out of existence.

The universe is impermanent. It is not logical to say the universe is eternal and God, as a personified Creator, is eternal.

If the universe had a beginning, it can not have been, or be, eternal.
 
Don't you consider yourself a believer in a Creator God? The evidence does not exist for the belief, but I accept that you believe in a personified creator God with a gender.

What is God to you?

It's interesting this thread is on the science forum, but nowadays physics and theology often meet. The Dalai Lama loves to talk to scientists.

I put it in science because at the point I moved it, I thought we were discussing scientific theory. Besides, it'll last longer here before Shogun finds it goes into his Tasmanian Devil act.:lol:

I believe in a creator we call "God." I also believe he at least initially presented himself in human form. He has however presented himself as many different things.

The Bible states he created Man (Adam) in his own image. However, I don't know that gender would be all that important to a being that can create life.
 
Written by men yet inspired by the Holy Spirit. Science cannot get a hold of that no matter how hard it tries.

Inspired? Perhaps. But inspired by who or what? What is it you call the Holy Spirit?

Please answer from your own direct understanding and experience, and not a bible quote, please.
 
Yes. I follow what you are saying is that God created the universe. You cannot say the universe is eternal.

More likely, IMO, universes pass in and out of existence. Why wouldn't they? Everything else we know about changes.

A belief in an eternal God is illogical. But that's ok. Beliefs are beliefs.

What gets interesting to me is when we start discussing what we think God is. That's when we can begin to approach each other more closely, no matter what our creeds.

I can neither say the universe is eternal nor not eternal.

If the universe, which is the background for our existence and the existence of all energy and matter within, how can it pass out of existence and what does it pass into? I think it is not logical to believe the universe is both infinite and finite.

As far as defining a creator, we can go ANYWHERE with that. If in the future, Man gains the ability to create human life, AND travel back in time to the dawn of Man, what is he? A creator who creates man in his own image.

Likewise, the aforementioned life form that is beyond Man's intellectual capability with the ability to create life. "God" is a label humans use. What humans perceive(d) as unexplainable way back when was always covered in superstitious beliefs based on assumptions.

Or a creator could be the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible. The former two could EASILY be explained away as the latter by primitive men.
 
Inspired? Perhaps. But inspired by who or what? What is it you call the Holy Spirit?

Please answer from your own direct understanding and experience, and not a bible quote, please.
I could not possibly describe to you something that is beyond description to one who does not know what gave them the breath of life.

The Holy Spirit is what made man through his/her breath. I say his/her because they are one inseperable being. The Holy Spirit is what rules the hearts of men/women. It is that portion within that determines/gives love. Not the love of flesh like many would proclaim but the love that is sang about in the songs that touch the hearts. It is that portion inside that no man can touch no matter how hard he/she tries. It is the love we have for one another that makes us care no matter how much we would like to be angry. it is that portion in each that knows how pure the heart of a child is before the world has corrupted the child. It is a being that can touch the heart of anyone at any time if they will renew their minds and seek Him/Her. It is the wisdom that we know is inside of us but yet we know not from where it came.
 
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I could not possibly describe to you something that is beyond description to one who does not know what gave them the breath of life.
The Holy Spirit is what made man through his/her breath. I say his/her because they are one inseperable being. The Holy Spirit is what rules the hearts of men/women. It is that portion within that determines/gives love. Not the love of flesh like many would proclaim but the love that is sang about in the songs that touch the hearts. It is that portion inside that no man can touch no matter how hard he/she tries. It is the love we have for one another that makes us care no matter how much we would like to be angry. it is that portion in each that knows how pure the heart of a child is before the world has corrupted the child. It is a being that can touch the heart of anyone at any time if they will renew their minds and seek Him/Her. It is the wisdom that we know is inside of us but yet we know not from where it came.

My question was an opportunity to find common ground. Your first sentence contains a putdown. It was more than likely not intended.

In my tradition, we refer to the 'nature of mind', or 'suchness', 'that which cannot be imagined or described'.

This is neither him nor her, or a person in anyway. It is pure being, open presence, spaciousness. It is an absence of hatred, jealous, pride, desire, and ignorance.

The truth of love has to be experienced. We can describe it with words, but that is conceptual and only approximates the meaning.
 
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My question was an opportunity to find common ground. Do you find any common ground with people who are not of your same beliefs?
Sure but I do not hedge
when it comes to what I have been shown to be true. Why would I? You asked me to explain in my own words. I did that what more is it that you want? You are eluding and telling people the Bible/Torah is in error because it was written by men. I tell you it was written by men via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not in error and I personally know this to be true as do many others. Does that insult you?
 
Sure but I do not hedge
when it comes to what I have been shown to be true. Why would I? You asked me to explain in my own words. I did that what more is it that you want? You are eluding and telling people the Bible/Torah is in error because it was written by men. I tell you it was written by men via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not in error and I personally know this to be true as do many others. Does that insult you?

Go back and check my posts. Nowhere have I said the Bible is in error because it was written by men. I said the Bible was written by men. Period.
 
I ask this sky, do you know who Jesus/Yahushua is?

Do you know what Buddha is?

Who are you referring to in these words you wrote 'one who does not know what gave them the breath of life'.
 
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