The "Unforgivable" Sin

[peach174]

I listened to most of this guy's speech and I thought it was pretty well on the mark. Sins of omission far outweigh our sins of commission. Matthew 25 is rather piercing.

But I will take exception to his comment that went something like "yes, we are saved by grace and not by works but...." But what? Is he implying that if we believe and accept Christ as our Savior that upon death we are still allowed into the kingdom despite our lack of charity?

That is my question.

Yes you are.
But you might be put out, at the outer regions of heaven in a small little one bedroom shack. Rather than the many Mansions that are there.
In other words, you won't be able to reap much of the rewards given in heaven.

I appreciate your offering up your opinion or beliefs. My beliefs do differ, but align with Catholic teaching. God's justice and mercy are made manifest in a place called purgatory. There we are purified of all of our laziness, sinfulness, etc. God is not one to be mocked (by some believer claiming if not demanding entrance into the holy kingdom) nor is anything defiled allowed into the kingdom as spoken of in Revelations.

Scripture backs up a place for mercy and justice to be meted out, much more than it suggests an "outer region" of heaven where we just scrape by to get in. That is my belief.

I agree with you. Read post # 7
I'm speaking metaphorically after you go through purgatory.
I also assume (my bad), that people should read at least the page or a few pages before they post. Most do not seem to do that though. Perhaps turzaka did not read the last page either. So I agree with you.I should have stated that same thing as you did, along with the rest of what I said.

The Bible also says that you can receive many crowns, for what you do here. We just don't know what only one crown gives you in rewards. One crown for just believing without doing the rest of what the bible says for Christians to do. So I made a metaphor.

 

[Avatar4321]

The unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, not cussing in general.
All other sins can be forgiven but not that.
But he is correct in the rest of his message.

So you can be forgiven for mass killing poeple, infecting someone with aids through a random needle etc but you cant say goddamn? Jesus Christ, what a remarkable spirit!

That's not what she said at all.

What exactly do you think blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is?

 

[Avatar4321]

The unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, not cussing in general.
All other sins can be forgiven but not that.
But he is correct in the rest of his message.

I thought...but I am no expert on Christianity...that successful suicide is the unforgivable sin since it is the only one from which repentance is impossible. That justified not burying suicides in hallowed ground.

Regards from Rosie

Why would that preclude repentence?

 

[Avatar4321]

Apparently the op does not actually understand what blaspheming the Holy Spirit means


Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the devil. This is unforgivable.

Where did you get that definition?

 

[Avatar4321]

Why are we worrying what unlettered folks here think what the Bible means?

Why would we be concerned what a lettered person thinks about what the Bible means when the Bible and Spirit say otherwise?

 

[The Irish Ram]

The unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, not cussing in general.
All other sins can be forgiven but not that.
But he is correct in the rest of his message.

So you can be forgiven for mass killing poeple, infecting someone with aids through a random needle etc but you cant say goddamn? Jesus Christ, what a remarkable spirit!

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with cussing. You can say God damn and your Father will forgive you 70 x 7. < as often as necessary.

On the other hand, if the Holy Spirit convicts you (enlightens you) to the wonders/salvation of God, and you make a conscious decision to turn in the other direction, there is no forgiveness/salvation that can reach you, because you have opted out of the covenant on your own.

Jesus Christ what a remarkable spirit, indeed.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I listened to most of this guy's speech and I thought it was pretty well on the mark. Sins of omission far outweigh our sins of commission. Matthew 25 is rather piercing.

But I will take exception to his comment that went something like "yes, we are saved by grace and not by works but...." But what? Is he implying that if we believe and accept Christ as our Savior that upon death we are still allowed into the kingdom despite our lack of charity?

That is my question.

Yes you are.
But you might be put out, at the outer regions of heaven in a small little one bedroom shack. Rather than the many Mansions that are there.
In other words, you won't be able to reap much of the rewards given in heaven.

Peach is right. Faith in the salvation of Christ alone gets you to Heaven. Works get you + or - rewards.

 

[turzovka]

Yes you are.
But you might be put out, at the outer regions of heaven in a small little one bedroom shack. Rather than the many Mansions that are there.
In other words, you won't be able to reap much of the rewards given in heaven.

I appreciate your offering up your opinion or beliefs. My beliefs do differ, but align with Catholic teaching. God's justice and mercy are made manifest in a place called purgatory. There we are purified of all of our laziness, sinfulness, etc. God is not one to be mocked (by some believer claiming if not demanding entrance into the holy kingdom) nor is anything defiled allowed into the kingdom as spoken of in Revelations.

Scripture backs up a place for mercy and justice to be meted out, much more than it suggests an "outer region" of heaven where we just scrape by to get in. That is my belief.

I agree with you. Read post # 7
I'm speaking metaphorically after you go through purgatory.
I also assume (my bad), that people should read at least the page or a few pages before they post. Most do not seem to do that though. Perhaps turzaka did not read the last page either. So I agree with you.I should have stated that same thing as you did, along with the rest of what I said.

The Bible also says that you can receive many crowns, for what you do here. We just don't know what only one crown gives you in rewards. One crown for just believing without doing the rest of what the bible says for Christians to do. So I made a metaphor.

So you are on board with purgatory? That changes everything for me.

But on the other hand, you do indicate in Post#7. that according to certain passages in Scripture one who truly believe can be assured of going to heaven (whether they pass through purgatory or not notwithstanding). Is this not referred to as “the eternal security of the believer?” Is this not a fundamental Calvinist teaching?

Here is what I am getting at. Even if Scripture means what it is appearing to say in those passages, I still do not accept a guarantee of eternal life, for anybody. It may be close to true, that you can have this “blessed assurance” that if you died today you would not be condemned to hell, but, it does not mean that you could not still do something in the future where your “saved status” is taken away. Consequently, “once saved, always saved” can never apply.

I think that is an important doctrine or matter to be conscious of. I mean, just because Romans 8 says that a Christian cannot be separated from God’s love, is not the same as implying “once a Christian, always a Christian.” And as for 1 Corthinthians passage, I truly believe that “one is saved but as going through fire” is a reference to purgatory directly. Someone who commits suicide it could be applied, but the real application is far more universal applying to many, if not most of us.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because you don't know or believe in the Bible as do the cultist evangelicals here, and you don't know the Holy Spirit.

You are part of the unlettered folks here, Avatar. Most Mormons are in your boat. You don't even know your own scriptures.

Why are we worrying what unlettered folks here think what the Bible means?

Why would we be concerned what a lettered person thinks about what the Bible means when the Bible and Spirit say otherwise?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I thought...but I am no expert on Christianity...that successful suicide is the unforgivable sin since it is the only one from which repentance is impossible. That justified not burying suicides in hallowed ground.

Be careful to judge religious dogma according to the Bible.
No where does it say that suicides are damned to hell. In fact one suicide made it into the Hebrew Hall of Faith according to God. In fact, God gave him the power to take some nasties with him while he committed suicide. Read about Samson.

Turz, purgatory was Catholic dogma without any basis in fact so the Catholics have done away with the erroneous premise.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Irish Ram is no more an expert of The Holy Bible as well as doctrine versus dogma than is Avatar4321.

All of you who need wisdom, begin with James 1:5.

 

[The Irish Ram]

JakeStarkey;6420224]The Irish Ram is no more an expert of The Holy Bible as well as doctrine versus dogma than is Avatar4321.

Which should make it very easy to prove me wrong.
Do so.

 

[peach174]

I appreciate your offering up your opinion or beliefs. My beliefs do differ, but align with Catholic teaching. God's justice and mercy are made manifest in a place called purgatory. There we are purified of all of our laziness, sinfulness, etc. God is not one to be mocked (by some believer claiming if not demanding entrance into the holy kingdom) nor is anything defiled allowed into the kingdom as spoken of in Revelations.

Scripture backs up a place for mercy and justice to be meted out, much more than it suggests an "outer region" of heaven where we just scrape by to get in. That is my belief.

I agree with you. Read post # 7
I'm speaking metaphorically after you go through purgatory.
I also assume (my bad), that people should read at least the page or a few pages before they post. Most do not seem to do that though. Perhaps turzaka did not read the last page either. So I agree with you.I should have stated that same thing as you did, along with the rest of what I said.

The Bible also says that you can receive many crowns, for what you do here. We just don't know what only one crown gives you in rewards. One crown for just believing without doing the rest of what the bible says for Christians to do. So I made a metaphor.

So you are on board with purgatory? That changes everything for me.

But on the other hand, you do indicate in Post#7. that according to certain passages in Scripture one who truly believe can be assured of going to heaven (whether they pass through purgatory or not notwithstanding). Is this not referred to as “the eternal security of the believer?” Is this not a fundamental Calvinist teaching?

Here is what I am getting at. Even if Scripture means what it is appearing to say in those passages, I still do not accept a guarantee of eternal life, for anybody. It may be close to true, that you can have this “blessed assurance” that if you died today you would not be condemned to hell, but, it does not mean that you could not still do something in the future where your “saved status” is taken away. Consequently, “once saved, always saved” can never apply.

I think that is an important doctrine or matter to be conscious of. I mean, just because Romans 8 says that a Christian cannot be separated from God’s love, is not the same as implying “once a Christian, always a Christian.” And as for 1 Corthinthians passage, I truly believe that “one is saved but as going through fire” is a reference to purgatory directly. Someone who commits suicide it could be applied, but the real application is far more universal applying to many, if not most of us.

I don't follow any of man's teachings I go by the Bible.
The Bible says you are guaranteed eternal life if you believe in Jesus Christ. You will be judged for what you do and do not do here on Earth.
The only unforgiven sin where you would not be guaranteed eternal life is if you blasphemy the holy spirit. The Bible says that not even Christ's shedding of blood covers this.

 

[The Irish Ram]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) &#8211; The Roman Catholic Church has effectively buried the concept of limbo, the place where centuries of tradition and teaching held that babies who die without baptism went.

And Hebrews 11:32

 

[Truthmatters]

It would be nice if all christains acted like Jesus

 

[turzovka]

Turz, purgatory was Catholic dogma without any basis in fact so the Catholics have done away with the erroneous premise.

One faulty statement by you says a lot to me. For one, you do not know Catholic teaching well at all to be so wrong on such a crucial doctrine.

Also, Catholic dogma can never change.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't have to, merely putting out a warning for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

JakeStarkey;6420224]The Irish Ram is no more an expert of The Holy Bible as well as doctrine versus dogma than is Avatar4321.

Which should make it very easy to prove me wrong.
Do so.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Turz, purgatory was Catholic dogma without any basis in fact so the Catholics have done away with the erroneous premise.

One faulty statement by you is says a lot to me. For one, you do not know Catholic teaching well at all to be so wrong on such a crucial doctrine.

Also, Catholic dogma can never change.

Really? How was that cod you ate last Fri.?

AGAIN:
NYTimes
Published: April 21, 2007

The netherworld of limbo, long speculated in Roman Catholic teaching as the destination of babies who die unbaptized, has been replaced with the “prayerful hope” that they reach heaven. Pope Benedict XVI signed a theological report, years in the making, that effectively demoted limbo, a place neither in heaven nor in hell, where unbaptized babies would not be in communion with God but would nonetheless enjoy eternal happiness. Many in the church felt the idea, never formally a part of church doctrine, was outdated and caused undue worry for parents.

So I take it you also believe in replacement theology, where Catholic men rewrote what God said and then produced their own version of the Bible?


Jake, I could say the same about you if you ever posted substance instead of Snarkey.
So was I wrong about dogma, or suicide, or both? Dazzle me with YOUR knowledge.......

 

[JakeStarkey]

TIR, I know what I believe and live by it. I have a relationship with my Lord and Savior.

What you say pro or con means nothing to the truth of my relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So your remark about my lack of expertise concerning the Bible has less to do with what the Bible actually says, and more to do with not being in line with what you perceive your relationship with God is?
So in your relationship with God, what has He told you that can't be verified in His Word?
What did He tell you about purgatory? And does it align with what He said in the Bible?
Then show me where what I said lacks expertise according to His word......