The ugly truth about taxes

Howard Dean:

”This is initially going to seem like heresy from a progressive. The truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich.”

Video at the link.

Dean: Everyone Needs to Pay More, That's Why the Cliff is Better | MRCTV

He still has a problem, there ain't enough money even if we go back to the Clinton taxes.

It amazes me that you have so many people that really think that Obama's plans are to stop at taxing the rich.
 
Howard Dean:

”This is initially going to seem like heresy from a progressive. The truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich.”

Video at the link.

Dean: Everyone Needs to Pay More, That's Why the Cliff is Better | MRCTV

He still has a problem, there ain't enough money even if we go back to the Clinton taxes.

It amazes me that you have so many people that really think that Obama's plans are to stop at taxing the rich.

I wouldn't. Reinstate the whole of the Clinton tax schedule. Those of us working can afford it, those not working won't be affected.
 
Buffet Rule, on all income from whatever source.

What a wonderful idea. If the government took all the income from everyone who makes more than $70,000 a year, and all the income from the corporations, they could raise almost $6 trillion. That would pay down less than half the debt, assuming people kept working after they make that much.
 
Howard Dean:



Video at the link.

Dean: Everyone Needs to Pay More, That's Why the Cliff is Better | MRCTV

He still has a problem, there ain't enough money even if we go back to the Clinton taxes.

It amazes me that you have so many people that really think that Obama's plans are to stop at taxing the rich.

I wouldn't. Reinstate the whole of the Clinton tax schedule. Those of us working can afford it, those not working won't be affected.

I'm glad you're game for that because it's beginning to look as if that's been the plan all along. It's probably for the best anyway. It won't help our fiscal situation as a nation, but, people that don't pay taxes aren't concerned with what politicians are doing with their confiscated income. Everyone needs to pay something.
 
Often, even the IRS doesn't agree how tax law should be applied...
:eusa_eh:
Watchdog says tax law too complex for most filers
Jan 9,`13 WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's tax law is so thick and complicated that businesses and individuals spend more than 6 billion hours a year complying with filing requirements. That's the equivalent of 3 million people working full-time, year-round.
As a result, about 90 percent of filers will either pay a tax preparer or use a computer software service to help with their federal tax returns this spring, according to a report Wednesday by an independent government watchdog. "The existing tax code makes compliance difficult, requiring taxpayers to devote excessive time to preparing and filing their returns," says the report by Nina E. Olson, the National Taxpayer Advocate. "It obscures comprehension, leaving many taxpayers unaware how their taxes are computed and what rate of tax they pay. It facilitates tax avoidance by enabling sophisticated taxpayers to reduce their tax liabilities and provides criminals with opportunities to commit tax fraud."

Olson said the tax code also "undermines trust in the system by creating an impression that many taxpayers are not compliant." She ranks complexity as the most serious tax problem facing taxpayers and the Internal Revenue Service in her annual report to Congress. Momentum is building in Congress to overhaul the tax code for the first time since 1986. But Washington's divided government has yet to show it can successfully tackle such an issue. President Barack Obama and Republican leaders in Congress say they are onboard, though they have rarely seen eye to eye on tax policy. They struggled mightily just to avoid the year-end fiscal cliff, passing a bill that makes relatively small changes to the nation's tax laws, compared to a major overhaul.

"Our broken tax code has become a nightmare of loopholes and special interest provisions that create added complexities and costs for hardworking taxpayers and small businesses," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich., chairman of the tax-writing House and Ways and Means Committee. "Comprehensive tax reform will make sure everyone is playing by the same rules, and help businesses create more jobs and invest in their workers."

Source
 
Buffet Rule, on all income from whatever source.

The Buffet Rule is to mislead people by comparing lower capital gains tax rates to higher earned income tax rates. His solution to this inequality? Raise income tax rates!
 
Buffet Rule, on all income from whatever source.

The equal rule.. on all income from every person without exception, every dollar from every source taxed exactly the same... see how you cry about raising taxes and government spending then

Which is exactly what we flat tax people have been proposing for years now, and the leftwing progressives consistently slap us down as 'evil' people who want to give all the rich a break and punish the poor, yadda yadda. Even many on the right won't embrace it but put forth the so-called 'fair tax' or other ideas as the way to go.

But two things need to happen:

1. We need a flat tax on all income of all types that is applied across the board. If you make $1,000 you pay the flat tax even if you get it back at the end of the year. If you make $10,000 you pay the same percentage of flat tax. If you make $1 milion, you pay the same percentage of flat tax. That gives everybody the same proportional amount of skin in the game and removes the politician's ability to manipulate the tax code to increase their own power and personal wealth.

2. We need a constitutional amendment that keeps the federal government from dispensing any form of charity to anybody, whether it is AIG or General Motors or a welfare mom. Gradually, so as not to create unnecessary hardship or chaos, responsibility for welfare should be shifted to the states and local communities to administer. That would remove the single most prevalent source of government graft and corruption and pull government budgets back into a framework limited to what the federal government MUST do, and not what it CAN do to keep politicians in office and increasing their own personal fortunes.

Do these two things, and the states would be so awash in funds available to them they could easily implement any kind of social benefits state the people wanted. It would return to the economy at least a third or more of the money the federal government spends just to feed the enormous federal bureaucracy and return more than another third to the states to use at it needs to be used.
 
Buffet Rule, on all income from whatever source.

The equal rule.. on all income from every person without exception, every dollar from every source taxed exactly the same... see how you cry about raising taxes and government spending then

Which is exactly what we flat tax people have been proposing for years now, and the leftwing progressives consistently slap us down as 'evil' people who want to give all the rich a break and punish the poor, yadda yadda. Even many on the right won't embrace it but put forth the so-called 'fair tax' or other ideas as the way to go.

But two things need to happen:

1. We need a flat tax on all income of all types that is applied across the board. If you make $1,000 you pay the flat tax even if you get it back at the end of the year. If you make $10,000 you pay the same percentage of flat tax. If you make $1 milion, you pay the same percentage of flat tax. That gives everybody the same proportional amount of skin in the game and removes the politician's ability to manipulate the tax code to increase their own power and personal wealth.

2. We need a constitutional amendment that keeps the federal government from dispensing any form of charity to anybody, whether it is AIG or General Motors or a welfare mom. Gradually, so as not to create unnecessary hardship or chaos, responsibility for welfare should be shifted to the states and local communities to administer. That would remove the single most prevalent source of government graft and corruption and pull government budgets back into a framework limited to what the federal government MUST do, and not what it CAN do to keep politicians in office and increasing their own personal fortunes.

Do these two things, and the states would be so awash in funds available to them they could easily implement any kind of social benefits state the people wanted. It would return to the economy at least a third or more of the money the federal government spends just to feed the enormous federal bureaucracy and return more than another third to the states to use at it needs to be used.

Yep. This can be summed up as "ban all tax expenditures".

Then we can lower the rates on everyone, and everyone in the same income brackets would be paying the exact same amount of tax as everyone else in their bracket. It does not get more fair and transparent than that.
 
The equal rule.. on all income from every person without exception, every dollar from every source taxed exactly the same... see how you cry about raising taxes and government spending then

Which is exactly what we flat tax people have been proposing for years now, and the leftwing progressives consistently slap us down as 'evil' people who want to give all the rich a break and punish the poor, yadda yadda. Even many on the right won't embrace it but put forth the so-called 'fair tax' or other ideas as the way to go.

But two things need to happen:

1. We need a flat tax on all income of all types that is applied across the board. If you make $1,000 you pay the flat tax even if you get it back at the end of the year. If you make $10,000 you pay the same percentage of flat tax. If you make $1 milion, you pay the same percentage of flat tax. That gives everybody the same proportional amount of skin in the game and removes the politician's ability to manipulate the tax code to increase their own power and personal wealth.

2. We need a constitutional amendment that keeps the federal government from dispensing any form of charity to anybody, whether it is AIG or General Motors or a welfare mom. Gradually, so as not to create unnecessary hardship or chaos, responsibility for welfare should be shifted to the states and local communities to administer. That would remove the single most prevalent source of government graft and corruption and pull government budgets back into a framework limited to what the federal government MUST do, and not what it CAN do to keep politicians in office and increasing their own personal fortunes.

Do these two things, and the states would be so awash in funds available to them they could easily implement any kind of social benefits state the people wanted. It would return to the economy at least a third or more of the money the federal government spends just to feed the enormous federal bureaucracy and return more than another third to the states to use at it needs to be used.

Yep. This can be summed up as "ban all tax expenditures".

Then we can lower the rates on everyone, and everyone in the same income brackets would be paying the exact same amount of tax as everyone else in their bracket. It does not get more fair and transparent than that.

But why have brackets? Why reward people for less success and punish people for greater success? Why is a flat tax so unacceptable to so many? The guy making $10,000 pays ten times the taxes that the guy making $1,000 pays. The guy making $100,000 pays ten times the taxes the guy making $10,000 pays. Why isn't that acceptable? And why can't more people see the ethical benefit in politicians not being able to buy votes by manipulating the tax code? If what they set the code at affects every wage earner equally, and they can't pay people not to work, don't you think they all might focus more on what is best for everybody instead of what increases their own power and personal fortunes?
 
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Look at it this way. There is zero incentive now for millions of people to go to work or try to increase their income (so that they will pay more in taxes) because there are so many incentives for people to remain poor. And while understanding that not all do, the average welfare family can now receives cash and benefits equal to between $40 and $60 thousand dollars. Where is the incentive to get an education and equip oneself to support oneself?

And if everything we earn is subject to tax consequences, how can that not affect how people choose to earn and acquire wealth? And sometimes that is not in the best interest of the whole.

A flat tax applied equally across the board is a great equalizer. Everybody has an interest in what the politicians do because if they do it to one group, they do it to all. Class warfare comes to a screeching halt, and there is every incentive to make as much as you can because there are no consequences for earning as much as you can.
 
Brackets make it progressive and subjective if the brackets are taxed differently.. much like we have today.. with more and more brackets paying zero, or paying zero because of the number of deductions, exemptions, etc...

Subjectivity leads to pandering.. pandering leads to votes.. votes lead to increased political power.. and increased political power from pandering is the path to the dark side that has already led us to where we are... (in my best Yoda voice)

I have screamed so many times on how people only want subjective equal treatment when it benefits them, and will call for the unequal treatment of others when it benefits them as well. .and this is the evil that our government must get away from... this play on subjectivity has been the biggest problem in our government for a long time now... but it is not like government officials want to give up the additional power they have gotten from this... and they will distract and play everyone against each other to keep it that way
 
Which is exactly what we flat tax people have been proposing for years now, and the leftwing progressives consistently slap us down as 'evil' people who want to give all the rich a break and punish the poor, yadda yadda. Even many on the right won't embrace it but put forth the so-called 'fair tax' or other ideas as the way to go.

But two things need to happen:

1. We need a flat tax on all income of all types that is applied across the board. If you make $1,000 you pay the flat tax even if you get it back at the end of the year. If you make $10,000 you pay the same percentage of flat tax. If you make $1 milion, you pay the same percentage of flat tax. That gives everybody the same proportional amount of skin in the game and removes the politician's ability to manipulate the tax code to increase their own power and personal wealth.

2. We need a constitutional amendment that keeps the federal government from dispensing any form of charity to anybody, whether it is AIG or General Motors or a welfare mom. Gradually, so as not to create unnecessary hardship or chaos, responsibility for welfare should be shifted to the states and local communities to administer. That would remove the single most prevalent source of government graft and corruption and pull government budgets back into a framework limited to what the federal government MUST do, and not what it CAN do to keep politicians in office and increasing their own personal fortunes.

Do these two things, and the states would be so awash in funds available to them they could easily implement any kind of social benefits state the people wanted. It would return to the economy at least a third or more of the money the federal government spends just to feed the enormous federal bureaucracy and return more than another third to the states to use at it needs to be used.

Yep. This can be summed up as "ban all tax expenditures".

Then we can lower the rates on everyone, and everyone in the same income brackets would be paying the exact same amount of tax as everyone else in their bracket. It does not get more fair and transparent than that.

But why have brackets? Why reward people for less success and punish people for greater success? Why is a flat tax so unacceptable to so many? The guy making $10,000 pays ten times the taxes that the guy making $1,000 pays. The guy making $100,000 pays ten times the taxes the guy making $10,000 pays. Why isn't that acceptable? And why can't more people see the ethical benefit in politicians not being able to buy votes by manipulating the tax code? If what they set the code at affects every wage earner equally, and they can't pay people not to work, don't you think they all might focus more on what is best for everybody instead of what increases their own power and personal fortunes?

Exactly
 

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