The U.S. Constitution and The Declaration of Independence

[KokomoJojo]

The founders created two documents to rule the new nation. The second one a little less liberal than the first but perhaps more practical for the nation some envisioned. Could we find fifty Americans, at this time, to write a Constitution that would last as long as the one we have? Just fifty Americans?

anything can last when you have big enough guns and great iron curtain.

 

[KokomoJojo]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

There is no enlightenment influence in the Constitution. There are parts directly from enlightenment thinkers such as Locke and Montesquieu, but they were outliers in the enlightenment.

they created a parliamentary dictatorship, no different in operation than jolly ole kingville.

they tell us we have the right to vote, on which constitutional amendment did we ever vote?

Which supreme court case did we ever vote on?

The law is not ours, it belongs to the gov and their judges.

 

[regent]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

There is no enlightenment influence in the Constitution. There are parts directly from enlightenment thinkers such as Locke and Montesquieu, but they were outliers in the enlightenment.

they created a parliamentary dictatorship, no different in operation than jolly ole kingville.

they tell us we have the right to vote, on which constitutional amendment did we ever vote?

Which supreme court case did we ever vote on?

The law is not ours, it belongs to the gov and their judges.

Maybe the framers should have made the Constitution and the laws under it the supreme laws of the land?

 

[KokomoJojo]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

There is no enlightenment influence in the Constitution. There are parts directly from enlightenment thinkers such as Locke and Montesquieu, but they were outliers in the enlightenment.

they created a parliamentary dictatorship, no different in operation than jolly ole kingville.

they tell us we have the right to vote, on which constitutional amendment did we ever vote?

Which supreme court case did we ever vote on?

The law is not ours, it belongs to the gov and their judges.

Maybe the framers should have made the Constitution and the laws under it the supreme laws of the land?

you will find the people on these boards at best for th emost part are koolaid slingers. They have no clue what its like in the trenches. All they see is the glossy paint that covers rotted wood.



see if you can pick out anything that resembles the constitution there.

 

[ding]

The quoted part of the Declaration of Indendendence was directed towards King George, the preamble was changed at the last minute and is not that reflective of the Constitution, and the establishment clause started with the Gentlemen's Agreement during the convention as protection for Protestant religions.

You get a gold star for knowing your history, Mickey Mouse. Bravo.

Not many people understand the establishment clause.

 

[ding]

Thankfully they didn't say 'hatched' or the bird people would have been lording it over everyone for the last 200 years.

Many of the founders were Deists, they didn't believe in a Christian god they believed in a 'power'. 'by their creator' is ubiquitous. It doesn't say 'by their god', or 'by god', or 'by Jesus' or 'by the lord'. Creator is a neutral word that Christian like to give present day weight to.

And yet, they all believed that liberty and freedom were dependent upon religion and morality. Go figure.

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

 

[ding]

Freedom of religion is protected simply the fact of the law and the Constitution. No amount of you atheist assholes to change that will matter.

It is not ‘atheists’ who have contempt for settled, accepted Establishment Clause jurisprudence, and seek to codify religious dogma in secular law in violation of the First Amendment, that would be for the most part Christians.

Indeed, those free from faith are the most ardent defenders of Establishment Clause jurisprudence, and advocates of religious liberty and freedom.

You are woefully ignorant on what the establishment clause means and the history behind it.

 

[rightwinger]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

I just left you a message that I was going to school you on the establishment clause. How fortuitous was this? Why don't we start with the 1st Amendment and what the Founders intended first. How about that? So tell me, what exactly do you believe the purpose was of the establishment clause?

 

[rightwinger]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

I just left you a message that I was going to school you on the establishment clause. How fortuitous was this? Why don't we start with the 1st Amendment and what the Founders intended first. How about that? So tell me, what exactly do you believe the purpose was of the establishment clause?

The establishment clause was moot finally and forever with the passing of the 14th amendment

Agree!

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

I just left you a message that I was going to school you on the establishment clause. How fortuitous was this? Why don't we start with the 1st Amendment and what the Founders intended first. How about that? So tell me, what exactly do you believe the purpose was of the establishment clause?

The establishment clause was moot finally and forever with the passing of the 14th amendment

Agree!

No. That's not true either. That may have been the ruling from a bunch of idiots, but need I remind you that a different group of idiots had found that some human lives people were not human beings but property to be disposed of at the will of their owners. Twice. So let's not try to pretend that SCOTUS is infallible, ok?

What I am asking you is if you know what the original intent of the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment was? Also, maybe if you knew about any of the history about the different versions.

I will explain the idiotic and wrong supremacy clause later as the explanation and PROOF that they were constitutionally wrong is related to how this went through the senate and also a very specific bill that went through the senate at about the time the 14th Amendment was ratified. I know you have no clue about what I am talking about and I know you want to know what I am talking about. So, if you want to know what I am talking about, you are going to have to tell me what you believe the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment really meant. How's that?

 

[Tennyson]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

They are one in the same, right? To not establish a national religion and to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. Am I missing something else?

 

[Tennyson]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

I just left you a message that I was going to school you on the establishment clause. How fortuitous was this? Why don't we start with the 1st Amendment and what the Founders intended first. How about that? So tell me, what exactly do you believe the purpose was of the establishment clause?

The establishment clause was moot finally and forever with the passing of the 14th amendment

Agree!

If the establishment clause was moot after the Fourteenth Amendment, why did the same men try to pass eight amendments to apply the First Amendment to the states starting in 1871?

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

Do you know what failed bill I was referring to that proves the 14th Amendment was never meant to apply to the establishment clause by the framers of the 14th Amendment? If you do, don't tell him. I want him to be honest about the 1st Amendment.

 

[ding]

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

You are completely clueless about the Supremacy Clause

I just left you a message that I was going to school you on the establishment clause. How fortuitous was this? Why don't we start with the 1st Amendment and what the Founders intended first. How about that? So tell me, what exactly do you believe the purpose was of the establishment clause?

The establishment clause was moot finally and forever with the passing of the 14th amendment

Agree!

If the establishment clause was moot after the Fourteenth Amendment, why did the same men try to pass eight amendments to apply the First Amendment to the states starting in 1871?

Darn it. You told him.

 

[Tennyson]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

They are one in the same, right? To not establish a national religion and to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. Am I missing something else?

It was very nuanced. The power, control over the state, and abuses by the Church of England and other Protestant religions being left out and not receiving federal government tax and other support. Very similar.

 

[Tennyson]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

Do you know what failed bill I was referring to that proves the 14th Amendment was never meant to apply to the establishment clause by the framers of the 14th Amendment? If you do, don't tell him. I want him to be honest about the 1st Amendment.

I know it, but there was the orginal Sixteenth Amendment in 1871 that preceded it and one other. Both were prior to the Slaughter House cases.

 

[ding]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —

The Declaration of Independence: Full text


U.S. Constitution - Table of Contents - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

U.S. Constitution - Article 5 , Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Were we created or did The Founding Fathers intend that we should be an irreligious people?

Neither.

It was the intent of the Framers that government be religiously neutral, where the people are at liberty to practice whatever faith they so desire – or to be free from faith altogether – absent unwarranted interference from the state.

“The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

That's not entirely true. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion. The states were free to do so and roughly half of the states had one at the time of ratification. The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the state established religions. Look it up. Don't make me make you look foolish.

Keep in mind that there were two purposes of the establishment clause: what you stated and the the same purpose at the no religious test clause. This was to protect all Protestant relgions by not elevating one over the other.

Do you know what failed bill I was referring to that proves the 14th Amendment was never meant to apply to the establishment clause by the framers of the 14th Amendment? If you do, don't tell him. I want him to be honest about the 1st Amendment.

I know it, but there was the orginal Sixteenth Amendment in 1871 that preceded it and one other. Both were prior to the Slaughter House cases.

I can't be mad at Mickey Mouse! Slaughter House cases? I was talking about a bill that failed the same exact senate that passed the 14th Amendment. It was effectively the same language that was rejected at the time the 1st Amendment was written. So there is no way in hell, the Framers of the 14th Amendment ever believed that the 14th Amendment "corrected" the first Amendment. And I'm not going to even get into the illegality of improperly amending the 1st Amendment by SCOTUS a right they don't have.