The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[Kruska]

Partially true.

The German army did indeed occupy it in January, but pulled out about a week prior to the bombing. Then after the bombing they returned and took up positions there again.

That is known as the "First Battle of Monte Cassino", and was initially attacked on 17 January. That battle went on for almost three weeks, with the Germans withdrawing when they realized they were about to be cut off. And at the same time the badly mauled Allied units also withdrew. It was only after that that the Air Corps bombed it.

So that is a half-truth. It was empty at the time of the bombing, the Allies had no way of knowing that the German forces had already withdrawn. But it was indeed occupied prior to the bombing.

No it's isn't partially true - neither is it a half truth. - no need to split hairs

It's the truth - simple as that. You can check any verified source you want. Or feel free to come up with an own source.
e.g. Cassino | Italy
or e.g. The Bombing of Monte Cassino
It gives an excellent account about what and how it happened - try and read it up.

Quote: A civilian who had been in the abbey during the bombardment and who came into the American lines on the following day confirmed that the Germans had never had weapons inside the abbey and had never used it as an observation post. Numerous emplacements, he added, were no more than two hundred yards from the outside wall, and one position was about fifty yards away.

Quote: Ten days after the bombardment, Fifth Army counterintelligence agents verified the fact that no German troops had occupied the abbey before the bombardment. But the information was given no dissemination. The Allied forces never officially announced whether German troops had been in the monastery.

The German military had formally declared that their troops would not use the building, if the Allies would believe them or not was solely the Allies decision.
The only German military within the monastery where those who had evacuated most of the Monks, civilians and it's treasure 2-3 month earlier.

The Germans were in and around the town of Monte Casino - as stated before: no German troops where within the monastery prior to the bombing, or any kind of fortification efforts were made.

The Monastery was not bombed during the first battle ((January 17 to February 12) as you stated, but after. Three days after for the Allies disastrous 1st battle outcome, namely on February 15th and 16th, 3/4 days after the first battle, but in conjunction with the first day of the second battle - (February 15 to 18) Due to the second battle being conducted by British troops (NZ and Indian troops) the British divisional commanders demanded that the monastery be destroyed.

 

[Mushroom]

No it's isn't partially true - neither is it a half truth. - no need to split hairs

Wow, your very first reference confirms what I said.

t the beginning of January 1944 the U.S. 5th Army won a position facing Cassino across the Garigliano River. Heroic fighting by Allied troops met heroic German resistance in three savage battles.

And I know it was not bombed in the first battle, I said it was not. But the Germans did occupy it during that battle.

And really, the General told them not to use it. Well, some did anyways. And did he relay that order to the Allies and declare it an open location? Because you know, that is a real thing in war.

Thank you, have a nice day.

 

[Kruska]

Wow, your very first reference confirms what I said.



And I know it was not bombed in the first battle, I said it was not. But the Germans did occupy it during that battle.

And really, the General told them not to use it. Well, some did anyways. And did he relay that order to the Allies and declare it an open location? Because you know, that is a real thing in war.

Thank you, have a nice day.

You stated:
The German army did indeed occupy it in January, but pulled out about a week prior to the bombing. Then after the bombing they returned and took up positions there again.
That is known as the "First Battle of Monte Cassino",

This is a blatant false statement in all aspects - since also the bombing of the Abbey was not part of the first battle but the second. You have forwarded no proof whatsoever that would back up your statement/conviction. As such it is simply your personal opinion - nothing more.

One of my given sources you quoted above; nowhere is there a reference in that quote/article that would confirm your false statement.
Obviously you didn't even bother to read up the detailed account I had posted as a 2nd source.

Quote: Ten days after the bombardment, Fifth Army counterintelligence agents verified the fact that no German troops had occupied the abbey before the bombardment. But the information was given no dissemination. The Allied forces never officially announced whether German troops had been in the monastery.

e.g. The Abbot: “General, I … can only confirm this. You declared the Abbey Monte Cassino a protected zone, you forbade German soldiers to step within the area of the abbey, you ordered that within a specified perimeter around the abbey there be neither weapons, nor observation posts, nor billeting of troops. You have tirelessly taken care that these orders were most strictly observed.…Until the moment of the destruction…there was within the area of the abbey neither a German soldier, nor any German weapon, nor any German military installation.” (Page 10)

You have a nice day too

 

[Unkotare]

That is a poor one sided article.
Truman correctly surmised that Japan was going to never surrender in battle. Indeed, they would have fought all the way to the last soldier alive. ....is.

 

[Ringo]

Japan's World War II "bunker of horrors" discovered in China

Near the city of Anda in northeastern China, the largest test site of the infamous Japanese unit 731, which conducted horrific experiments on humans, has been discovered, reports Livescienc.

"The "bunker of horrors" was used by the 731 unit of the Japanese army during the Japanese occupation of China from 1931 to 1945.

Built by the Japanese and in operation before the Japanese surrender, the laboratory was a major medical research facility, but its exact location was not yet known.

Unit 731 was established in 1931 as part of its public health work, but it quickly expanded its research to include dangerous biological and chemical warfare experiments using Chinese, Korean, Russian and American captives as test subjects.

Researchers from the Heilongjiang Provincial Institute of Cultural Relics and Archaeology who excavated the bunker told the South China Morning Post that its discovery proves human atrocities for biological warfare.

Up to 12,000 men, women and children were killed in sadistic experiments that included grenade tests, bacterial bombs, flamethrowers and chemical weapons.

People were also dehydrated, killed in spinning centrifuges, injected with blood from diseased animals, exposed to X-rays, vivisected without anesthesia, and kept in low pressure chambers until their eyeballs burst.

A biological compound infected with flea plague, bred in Unit 731 laboratories, was dropped by low-flying planes over Chinese cities, causing outbreaks of disease that killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Archaeologists have partially excavated the U-shaped structure, which is about 33 meters long and 21 meters wide, with branching off adjacent rooms and tunnels. Since archaeologists have yet to go inside, the exact purpose of each room has not been established, but researchers have classified what they believe to be laboratories, observation and autopsy rooms, pre-trial detention cells, barracks, garages, bathhouses, canteens and wells.

After Japan's surrender in September 1945, the U.S. withheld evidence of horrific experiments and secretly granted many Unit 731 leaders immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for their research.

Much of the Japanese unit's documents were taken to Fort Detrick, Maryland, to the Center for the U.S. Biological Weapons Program.

Archaeologists say they will continue to excavate the site, gathering evidence of criminal human experimentation.

 

[Redfish]

Japan's World War II "bunker of horrors" discovered in China

Near the city of Anda in northeastern China, the largest test site of the infamous Japanese unit 731, which conducted horrific experiments on humans, has been discovered, reports Livescienc.

"The "bunker of horrors" was used by the 731 unit of the Japanese army during the Japanese occupation of China from 1931 to 1945.

Built by the Japanese and in operation before the Japanese surrender, the laboratory was a major medical research facility, but its exact location was not yet known.

Unit 731 was established in 1931 as part of its public health work, but it quickly expanded its research to include dangerous biological and chemical warfare experiments using Chinese, Korean, Russian and American captives as test subjects.

Researchers from the Heilongjiang Provincial Institute of Cultural Relics and Archaeology who excavated the bunker told the South China Morning Post that its discovery proves human atrocities for biological warfare.

Up to 12,000 men, women and children were killed in sadistic experiments that included grenade tests, bacterial bombs, flamethrowers and chemical weapons.

People were also dehydrated, killed in spinning centrifuges, injected with blood from diseased animals, exposed to X-rays, vivisected without anesthesia, and kept in low pressure chambers until their eyeballs burst.

A biological compound infected with flea plague, bred in Unit 731 laboratories, was dropped by low-flying planes over Chinese cities, causing outbreaks of disease that killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Archaeologists have partially excavated the U-shaped structure, which is about 33 meters long and 21 meters wide, with branching off adjacent rooms and tunnels. Since archaeologists have yet to go inside, the exact purpose of each room has not been established, but researchers have classified what they believe to be laboratories, observation and autopsy rooms, pre-trial detention cells, barracks, garages, bathhouses, canteens and wells.

After Japan's surrender in September 1945, the U.S. withheld evidence of horrific experiments and secretly granted many Unit 731 leaders immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for their research.

Much of the Japanese unit's documents were taken to Fort Detrick, Maryland, to the Center for the U.S. Biological Weapons Program.

Archaeologists say they will continue to excavate the site, gathering evidence of criminal human experimentation.

war is hell, the japanese and chinese proved that, as did the USA, Germany, Italy, France, UK, and almost all african nations.

 

[elektra]

war is hell, the japanese and chinese proved that, as did the USA, Germany, Italy, France, UK, and almost all african nations.

Uh, world war 2 proved the USA was and is, the good guys.

Nothing the USA has done compares to germany or japan

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Uh, world war 2 proved the USA was and is, the good guys.

Nothing the USA has done compares to germany or japan

there is no point arguing with haters they are never appeased and never right.

 

[gipper]

Uh, world war 2 proved the USA was and is, the good guys.

Nothing the USA has done compares to germany or japan

Dropping A bombs on a defenseless nation wanting to surrender, proves you wrong.

All the major combatants in WWII committed horrendous atrocities, including the USA.

 

[elektra]

there is no point arguing with haters they are never appeased and never right.

You are correct, but it does sharpen my knowledge and my replies are read by people who never post so that is good

 

[elektra]

Dropping A bombs on a defenseless nation wanting to surrender, proves you wrong.

All the major combatants in WWII committed horrendous atrocities, including the USA.

The tired old lies.

Defenseless, yet Japan fought the USSR to september first.

Defenseless, yet Japan shot down a plane or two after the surrender. August 18, 1945, U.S. Army Sergeant Anthony J. Marchione died because of one of those attacks.

Defensless, the Japanese would argue with you, stating they were never defenceless.

Surrender? Have you not heard of Hari Kari. Thousabd of Japanese killed themselves before surrenering.


Lieutenant Onoda surrendered his sword on March 9th 1974, decades after world war 2

Defenseless just trying to surrender has been proven a lie dozens of times in these threads

 

[Mushroom]

After Japan's surrender in September 1945, the U.S. withheld evidence of horrific experiments and secretly granted many Unit 731 leaders immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for their research.

Much of the Japanese unit's documents were taken to Fort Detrick, Maryland, to the Center for the U.S. Biological Weapons Program.

And that research was crucial in later years as they were the kinds of experiments that could not be done ethically. Things like exposure to extreme heat and cold, as well as high and low pressures to see what the human body could endure. But not all were given immunity. A dozen were tried and convicted for what happened.

Oh, and the Soviets did the exact same thing with those they captured. Not a single one of those captured by the Soviets served more than 7 years in prison, and just like the US they were all released after no more than 7 years.

And much of the documents also were sent to the Soviet Union, they captured a lot of the members and their records as well. But it's rather funny that you seem to be going out of your way to point fingers at the US, and completely ignoring that the Soviets did the exact same thing.

 

[Mushroom]

Dropping A bombs on a defenseless nation wanting to surrender, proves you wrong.

Of course, it also helps if they actually want to surrender. And the actual Privy Council who was in charge of the country indicated that very morning before the first bomb landed that they would continue to fight no matter what.

In fact, if what you said was true after that they should have been racing to surrender. But nope, they still voted to continue fighting no matter what.

It took two bombs and the Declaration of War by the Soviets to even get them to the point they were deadlocked. That kind proves your entire claim that they were "wanting to surrender" is a lie.

Hell, the very directions given to the Ambassador to the Soviet Union by Foreign Minister Togo was to arrange an armistice. Not even a surrender, the Foreign Minister refused to even consider such and forbade the Ambassador to ever bring it up. And an armistice is not a surrender.

 

[Mushroom]

Defensless, the Japanese would argue with you, stating they were never defenceless.

I tend to find people who have that belief to be extremely racist. The Japanese are a fierce warrior culture in a way that most of the world can barely comprehend. Willing to die before surrendering, and not just the military but civilians as well. One only needs to look at Saipan to see that.

A culture where before battles the Samurai would spend hours grooming themselves. Because it was tradition that the heads of the slain be removed and presented to the senior enemy officer. And they wanted their heads to give the best appearance for when they were presented.

And that was not just some "ancient ritual", the above woodcut from Japan was made in 1877, depicting the presenting of the heads of the leaders of the Satsuma Rebellion during the Meiji Era.

But that should give at least a glimpse into the actual mindset of Japan. Where it was better to die and leave a pretty corpse than to ever surrender. They were nowhere near beaten, not one Allied soldier had set foot on their home islands. If anybody thinks that they were about to surrender without even being invaded, they are either complete and utter idiots, racists, or both. I have far more respect for the nation of Japan and their military to ever believe they would have surrendered otherwise.

Hell, there was even a coup the night before the surrender was announced. That was how determined the military was to continue fighting.

 

[gipper]

The tired old lies.

Defenseless, yet Japan fought the USSR to september first.

Defenseless, yet Japan shot down a plane or two after the surrender. August 18, 1945, U.S. Army Sergeant Anthony J. Marchione died because of one of those attacks.

Defensless, the Japanese would argue with you, stating they were never defenceless.

Surrender? Have you not heard of Hari Kari. Thousabd of Japanese killed themselves before surrenering.


Lieutenant Onoda surrendered his sword on March 9th 1974, decades after world war 2

Defenseless just trying to surrender has been proven a lie dozens of times in these threads

Are you so slanted you don’t know the planes dropping the a-bombs did so in broad daylight with little fighter escort? Do you know why?

It’s been proven Japan tried to surrender months before August 1945. Truman like FDR demanded unconditional surrender but after he incinerated thousands of innocent women and children with those bombs, he agreed to the one condition they’d asked for. Strange no?

 

[elektra]

Are you so slanted you don’t know...

Ha, you are a racist troll

 

[elektra]

Are you so slanted you don’t know the planes dropping the a-bombs did so in broad daylight with little fighter escort? Do you know why?

Yet 5 to 10 days later japanese aces in Zeros killed an american.

And the vast majority of japanese were ready to die, and many did kill themselves, instead of surrendering.

If the Japanese were trying to surrender why did they kill americans every single day, for months.

 

[gipper]

Yet 5 to 10 days later japanese aces in Zeros killed an american.

And the vast majority of japanese were ready to die, and many did kill themselves, instead of surrendering.

If the Japanese were trying to surrender why did they kill americans every single day, for months.

Wow. They’re killed one American. Nuke those fuckers!

 

[Mr Natural]

The Japanese needed to be taught a lesson. And that lesson is don’t ever fuck with America.

Sadly, that lesson was not passed on to the Saudis after 9/11.

 

[elektra]

Wow. They’re killed one American. Nuke those fuckers!

One, they killed thousands, you lousy troll.

The revisionist assholes must lie through thier teeth.

The poor japanese, were trying to surrender, and as a goodwill gesture, on july 30th the sunk a battleship killing 900 men.

one person? You are a lying asshole