The Truth about Judaism

[FistyTheBadger]

1. Where did our spirits originate?

With and part of God.

2. What will the Messiah be like when he comes?

The Messiah will be a mortal human who has extraordinary natural gifts and skills that will allow him through perfectly logical and nondivine means join all persons in common cause. This could happen through any social means necessary, including war. I also want to answer another question about the Messiah, but you haven't asked it yet.

3. When will the Levites begin practicing the Law of God again?

I am not entirely familiar with the term "Law of God," but it sounds like something that happened before the Second Temple was destroyed.

4. What qualifies a man to be a prophet?

His perception of the world and his relationship with God.

5. Are there prophets today?

I don't know. God has given us no present-setted literature identifying them like he did for the guys in the Bible. However, I do believe that there are.

6. If not, then why?

If not, then there aren't people with the correct level of perception of the world and the correct relationship with God.

7. What happens to those who die without accepting Judaism?

The afterlife is a fuzzy subject in Judaism, allowing for many interpretations. The simplest answer is "Their souls return to God." However, there are other interpretations that can be as close to the Christian belief, however no Jew, and I mean no Jew, believes that your afterlife relies on faith. Jews believe that action and deed, and how you affected the world on Earth determines everything, as long as there is an afterlife.

8. What happens to innocents who die?

Like I said in answer 7, I don't know.

9. Why do Muslims hate you?

Abraham liked Isaac and didn't like Ishmael. Isaac was loved and cared for and cherished. Ishmael was cast into the desert. The rest is history and hyperemotion and insanity.

10. Why is Jerusalem coveted by the Muslims and why shouldn't they have it?

Jerusalem is the third holiest city in Islam because Abraham and Muhammed did something there with God and such. They shouldn't have it because they are not lead by very nice people. It's not like they are denied access in any way to their holy sites. In fact, we make it easier for them and safer for them to visit their holy sites, but everything we do (which is not just good in intention but good in fact) is propagandized by the Islamic leaders.

11. What does the skull cap mean?

It symbolizes our separation and subordination to God. I have always thought of it as the skull cap (called a "yarmulkah" [pronounced like "yammakah"] in Yiddish and a "kippah" [pronounced "keep-pah"] in Hebrew) as the physical symbol of the barrier between us and God.

12. What is the purpose of the Wailing wall?

The Wailing Wall (more accurately known as the Western Wall) is the first, and for a long time, the only, wall that has been found of the Second Temple, the original place that God commanded us to build to worship him at. Therefore, it is our holiest site. Since the Western Wall, called such because it is the wall on the physical western side of the Second Temple, was found, the Southern Wall has also been found. The Southern Wall, it has been discovered (not a big revelation) was the place of entrance into the Temple, and has a stairway coming up to it. The Western Wall was called the "Wailing Wall" for a long time because when it was found and people understood what it was, the intense emotions of the experience caused fully trained, experienced Israeli Soldiers to cry onto it. When I was a kid, I also thought that it was called that because it seemed to me to be leaning and all alone.

13. Why would Judaism only build one temple?

Because at the time, congregations weren't what they are today, and the Temple's purpose was different, and God told us to.

 

[Dis]

Faith doesn't need to be proven. That's what makes it "faith".

I really don't understand why people feel the need to harass people for their beliefs unless those beliefs impinge on others.

I actually had read that about Morons believing they're descended from Joseph. In what other ways does your theology lean toward Judaism?

As for reaching out to Jews, that's great... so long as we're not being prosyletized.

And you already know my feeling about baptizing the dead.

Diid you really just say you don't believe in giving other people a hard time about their beliefs in one sentence, and then call a Mormon a Moron in another sentence?

 

[Dr Grump]

It's a typo...

 

[Mr. Jones]

I have one more for your list-
Why does it say in the Talmud that Jesus was an idolater and conceived while his mother was menstruating and that she was a whore?

I've never heard of it saying any such thing. In fact, Jesus wouldn't be mentioned in the Talmud, since the Talmud preceded him; the mishnah by 200 years; the gemarra by 500 years.

Thanks for playing.

As to the origin of the Talmud, the Rabbis regard Moses as its first author, is that correct? So yes it would precede Jesus 's time. But I have read a little regarding the Talmud and what it says about Christians anyway.
deleted
Perhaps not all Jews adhere to this, I don't know , but regardless, this revered Jewish holy man added or adapted to the Talmud as he saw it to be necessary at the time. The Mischnah is the foundation and the principal part of the whole Talmud. This book was accepted by the Jews everywhere and was recognized as their authentic code of law.
I asked my question about what is said in the Talmud, regarding Christians in particular, because it is quite racist and derogatory and from what I read, should be quite revolting to a Christian reader.
Further more, regarding any one who calls themselves a Christian, and has the same need as those of the Jewish faith have, that is to rebuild the temple in order to conduct animal sacrifices for the atonement of sins, is seriously flawed in their beliefs IMHO.

Christians according to their beliefs, have should have no need or desire to advance the re-building of the 3rd temple the Jews desire. If they do they would be rebuking the sacrifice of Jesus, "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world," -It is only upon the true altar of God, through Christ, by his own blood, that God is satisfied with the final propitiation for sins. As scripture states, "...there remains no further sacrifice for sins."(Hebrews 10:26).
But as far as what I asked regarding the horrible blasphemies in that book-

The Talmud teaches that Jesus Christ was illegitimate and was conceived during menstruation; that he had the soul of Esau; that he was a fool, a conjurer, a seducer; that he was crucified, buried in hell and set up as an idol ever since by his followers.

1. ILLEGITIMATE AND CONCEIVED DURING MENSTRUATION

deleted

 

[jillian]

I'd suggest you get a link for that...

And no, I've never heard that Moses is considered the first author of the torah. moreover you're talking about something that allegededly existed in the year 200 CE.

you do know there are a lot of bogus sites out there, right?

I mean, you can link to the protocols of the learned elders of zion, too... wouldn't make the contents any less garbage. Without a link, though, I'm figuring it didn't come from anyplace of value anyway.

 

[jillian]

It's a typo...

of course it was..... fixed now.

 

[eots]

I'd love to have a serious discussion about Judaiam--one that is respectful and informative.

yaa well we would all love something ... but it ain't not going to happen that way is it ...so make like a bird ...and flock off

 

[Truthspeaker]

Jillian, you know why we mormons feel so much for Israel is because we claim to have the same blood. I for one am a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim. Our theology is far closer to Judaism than to traditional Christianity except that we believe in Christ.

We also believe that He will come at the end of days and usher in a 1000 year reign of peace. He will reign as King of Kings during this time. That is why I am always reaching out to the Jews.

I actually had read that about Mormons believing they're descended from Joseph. In what other ways does your theology lean toward Judaism?

As for reaching out to Jews, that's great... so long as we're not being prosyletized.

And you already know my feeling about baptizing the dead.

Well we believe in the restoration of the 10 tribes of Israel and in the literal gathering thereof. We believe that a religion does not save people, but by the content of ones heart and the action upon available knowledge.

 

[Sunni Man]

And no, I've never heard that Moses is considered the first author of the torah.

In main stream Christianity, Moses is considered the author of most of the Torah

 

[Truthspeaker]

1. Where did our spirits originate?

With and part of God.I would like a little more expounding on the matter

2. What will the Messiah be like when he comes?

The Messiah will be a mortal human who has extraordinary natural gifts and skills that will allow him through perfectly logical and nondivine means join all persons in common cause. This could happen through any social means necessary, including war. I also want to answer another question about the Messiah, but you haven't asked it yet.Interesting answer, now I am curious about the question you want me to ask that you have an answer for. What is it?



I am not entirely familiar with the term "Law of God," but it sounds like something that happened before the Second Temple was destroyed.
I am referring to what Christians call the Law of Moses, with it's sacrifices and ordinances. But I guess it's probably because there is no temple within which to perform.


His perception of the world and his relationship with God.How would one know to recognize his authority?



I don't know. God has given us no present-setted literature identifying them like he did for the guys in the Bible. However, I do believe that there are.I agree with the concept of modern day prophets.



If not, then there aren't people with the correct level of perception of the world and the correct relationship with God.There have been periods of time where this was exactly the case.



The afterlife is a fuzzy subject in Judaism, allowing for many interpretations. The simplest answer is "Their souls return to God." However, there are other interpretations that can be as close to the Christian belief, however no Jew, and I mean no Jew, believes that your afterlife relies on faith. Jews believe that action and deed, and how you affected the world on Earth determines everything, as long as there is an afterlife.I believe that exact same thing as a unique perspective in Christianity. However we do go into lots of detail as to what it's like.



Like I said in answer 7, I don't know.



Abraham liked Isaac and didn't like Ishmael. Isaac was loved and cared for and cherished. Ishmael was cast into the desert. The rest is history and hyperemotion and insanity.What was the problem with Ishmael and why did he get cast out?

10. Why is Jerusalem coveted by the Muslims and why shouldn't they have it?

Jerusalem is the third holiest city in Islam because Abraham and Muhammed did something there with God and such. They shouldn't have it because they are not lead by very nice people. It's not like they are denied access in any way to their holy sites. In fact, we make it easier for them and safer for them to visit their holy sites, but everything we do (which is not just good in intention but good in fact) is propagandized by the Islamic leaders.It makes sense. Do they think of Jews as Heathens?



It symbolizes our separation and subordination to God. I have always thought of it as the skull cap (called a "yarmulkah" [pronounced like "yammakah"] in Yiddish and a "kippah" [pronounced "keep-pah"] in Hebrew) as the physical symbol of the barrier between us and God.

Thank you. And what happens if you decide not to wear one. Is it worn by compulsion or does one promise to wear it always.

The Wailing Wall (more accurately known as the Western Wall) is the first, and for a long time, the only, wall that has been found of the Second Temple, the original place that God commanded us to build to worship him at. Therefore, it is our holiest site. Since the Western Wall, called such because it is the wall on the physical western side of the Second Temple, was found, the Southern Wall has also been found. The Southern Wall, it has been discovered (not a big revelation) was the place of entrance into the Temple, and has a stairway coming up to it. The Western Wall was called the "Wailing Wall" for a long time because when it was found and people understood what it was, the intense emotions of the experience caused fully trained, experienced Israeli Soldiers to cry onto it. When I was a kid, I also thought that it was called that because it seemed to me to be leaning and all alone.
Very interesting information.

Because at the time, congregations weren't what they are today, and the Temple's purpose was different, and God told us to.

Very well then.

 

[Mr. Jones]

I'd suggest you get a link for that...

And no, I've never heard that Moses is considered the first author of the torah. moreover you're talking about something that allegededly existed in the year 200 CE.

you do know there are a lot of bogus sites out there, right?

I mean, you can link to the protocols of the learned elders of zion, too... wouldn't make the contents any less garbage. Without a link, though, I'm figuring it didn't come from anyplace of value anyway.

I can see where Jews would not like to admit the existence of these
books or beliefs as many Christians who are sympathetic to the Zionist cause declare their alliance with them and thinking ones would therefore look at them in a bad light and perhaps turn away from the deception and falsehoods that their Jewish friends maybe adhere to.
Have you heard of the Toledot Jeshu (Book of the Life of Jesus)? It is said however, you may not find anyone in your bookstore because when the Jewish teachings regarding Jesus Christ were discovered in the early 1600's, a cover-up ensued. In 1631, a Jewish synod in Poland ordered the offending passages to be expunged, and that these teaching were to be passed on orally to young Jews by Rabbis and parents. This is documented by P.L.B Drach:

deleted
The Toledot is a pernicious book mainly for the Jewish people: Jewish mothers know the false fiction-story and pass it to their children via voice, by word, and those little children are programmed against Christianity since their very early childhood, creating in them all kind of poisonous resentment and prejudice against Christians... the Rabbis also pass the false story by word.
The Toledot is a kind of farce, a mocking distortion of the gospel story, and goes back to the second and third centuries, extant in about a dozen different versions.
The most prominent edition was published by Johann C. Wagenseil in 1681, with the title Tela Ignea Satanae. Altdorf: Noricum, 1681.
Other titles of the book are: Deeds of Jesus (Ma'ase Yeshu), Deeds of the One Who Was Hanged (Ma'ased Talui), Deeds of the One and His Son (Ma'asth do'otho v'eth b'no), Genealogy of Jesus... or Tolodoth Ieschu or Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua....
deleted
I'm just saying that the Talmud and Cabala teachings of the Toledot Yeshu are representative of teachings regarding Christ which may be shocking to Christians. This is why I suggested the OP add this question to his list in hopes of getting a Jewish persons view on these writings and books, and perhaps a general opinion on how modern Judaism views Jesus and Christians overall. Bear in mind I am not here to bash or ridicule, it wouldn't matter to me if Jews in general are taught to view Jesus or Christians in this negative light,
rather I have a problem with so called Christians themselves who would ally themselves with these teachings. Your thoughts?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Being a devout Christian myself, I don't hate jews for not believing in Christ and therefore doesn't deter me from allying with them. I know they are the chosen people of God and that through the lineage of Jacob all the peoples of the earth will be blessed. It doesn't make them better than others but it makes them the first to have the gospel preached among them and I know of the specific promises God covenanted with Israel. That is why I know attacks on Israel will fail, because of the promises of God to Jacob.

I feel that Judaism misunderstood the words of Isaiah about the first coming of the Lamb. They were looking beyond the mark for the second coming which will be in fire and glory. That is why Christ said," I came unto my own and mine own received me not."

 

[Diuretic]

What I'd like to know about Judaism. Judaism is one of the three Abrahamic religions right? So, why is Judaism not a proselytising religion while the other two Abrahamic religions are?

 

[jillian]

What I'd like to know about Judaism. Judaism is one of the three Abrahamic religions right? So, why is Judaism not a proselytising religion while the other two Abrahamic religions are?

I actually thought it was a self-imposed restriction. Thanks for asking the question. I learned something.

Judaism has been a minority faith group for thousands of years. Throughout much of that time, the majority faith group has been either Christianity or Islam. Both of these religions are offshoots of Judaism and, hence, monotheistic. That is, not recognizing the validity of other gods. However, since Judaism was recognized by both of these daughter religions as the prior, incomplete, revelation of God, they decided to permit an active Jewish presence in their midst. Of course, restrictions were placed upon Jews living in Christian or Moslem society. Proselytizing was one of these restrictions. Jews were not permitted to seek converts, and in some cases, were forced to grant access by the majority faith group's missionizers.

Thus, while we know of converts to Judaism, it was not a large widespread movement and certainly not sanctioned by Jewish leaders. In fact, the opposite has tended to be the case. There is much Jewish material which suggests that Jews "oppose" proselytizing. Before modern times, it would be exceedingly difficult for Jewish leaders in Christian and Moslem countries to advocate missionizing to the host society. This is still the case in Moslem countries.

Today, however, Jews in the US find themselves in a society where free market reigns supreme. This includes the free market of spiritual ideas, as can be seen by the explosion of interest in the New Age Spirituality Movement. Recently, there has been a quiet but significant emergence of outreach by Jewish movements. This outreach has been focused on about to be interfaith couples, but is open to all. The idea being that Judaism has something unique and spiritually satisfying. Perhaps in cases where non-Jewish partners or others are non practicing of their religion, they might find fulfillment in Judaism.

clickonJudaism: FAQs

 

[del]

I'd suggest you get a link for that...

And no, I've never heard that Moses is considered the first author of the torah. moreover you're talking about something that allegededly existed in the year 200 CE.

you do know there are a lot of bogus sites out there, right?

I mean, you can link to the protocols of the learned elders of zion, too... wouldn't make the contents any less garbage. Without a link, though, I'm figuring it didn't come from anyplace of value anyway.

I can see where Jews would not like to admit the existence of these
books or beliefs as many Christians who are sympathetic to the Zionist cause declare their alliance with them and thinking ones would therefore look at them in a bad light and perhaps turn away from the deception and falsehoods that their Jewish friends maybe adhere to.
Have you heard of the Toledot Jeshu (Book of the Life of Jesus)? It is said however, you may not find anyone in your bookstore because when the Jewish teachings regarding Jesus Christ were discovered in the early 1600's, a cover-up ensued. In 1631, a Jewish synod in Poland ordered the offending passages to be expunged, and that these teaching were to be passed on orally to young Jews by Rabbis and parents. This is documented by P.L.B Drach:
edit

I'm just saying that the Talmud and Cabala teachings of the Toledot Yeshu are representative of teachings regarding Christ which may be shocking to Christians. This is why I suggested the OP add this question to his list in hopes of getting a Jewish persons view on these writings and books, and perhaps a general opinion on how modern Judaism views Jesus and Christians overall. Bear in mind I am not here to bash or ridicule, it wouldn't matter to me if Jews in general are taught to view Jesus or Christians in this negative light,
rather I have a problem with so called Christians themselves who would ally themselves with these teachings. Your thoughts?

it's 5:39PM EST. you have until 5:45 to provide links for the material you've cited or it will be edited out. your choice.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

With and part of God.I would like a little more expounding on the matter

I have a feeling that in Christianity, the subject is more complex.

The Messiah will be a mortal human who has extraordinary natural gifts and skills that will allow him through perfectly logical and nondivine means join all persons in common cause. This could happen through any social means necessary, including war. I also want to answer another question about the Messiah, but you haven't asked it yet.Interesting answer, now I am curious about the question you want me to ask that you have an answer for. What is it?

I kind of thought that you would ask what the Messiah does, and what qualifies him to be the Messiah, and what conditions he must face.

I am not entirely familiar with the term "Law of God," but it sounds like something that happened before the Second Temple was destroyed.
I am referring to what Christians call the Law of Moses, with it's sacrifices and ordinances. But I guess it's probably because there is no temple within which to perform.

Yeah, that is what I thought.

His perception of the world and his relationship with God.How would one know to recognize his authority?

If he produced results which in retrospect were good, or saw something about to happen and tried to help people with it.

Abraham liked Isaac and didn't like Ishmael. Isaac was loved and cared for and cherished. Ishmael was cast into the desert. The rest is history and hyperemotion and insanity.What was the problem with Ishmael and why did he get cast out?

Isaac was the son of Sarah, the love of his life, and he tried ever so hard to have a baby with her. It is also said that God helped the process along, and this was apparent due to the fact that Sarah was beyond ovulating age by the time she conceived Isaac. Also, the news of her pregnancy caused her to laugh with joy, and this is where the name "Isaac" comes from, meaning "He will laugh."

However, as was the custom at the time, and through a completely voluntary agreement of love, as I see it, Abraham begot sons with Sarah's handmaids and other servant-women in order to have some hereditary legacy. As it happened, Ishmael was the first son Abraham had, and he was begotten from a handmaid called Hagar. Being the eldest was supposed to grant Ishmael certain rights according to the custom of the time and region, and the role of eldest child is even given special social status within many families today, even when there are not obvious or physical symbols of such status.

Unfortunately for a lot of people, Abraham gave his favor to Isaac, and Arbaham casts Ishmael out to the desert to die. God keeps Ishmael alive long enough to create his own legacy up until his great great great great....grandson Muhammed the Prophet comes into the picture.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

What I'd like to know about Judaism. Judaism is one of the three Abrahamic religions right? So, why is Judaism not a proselytising religion while the other two Abrahamic religions are?

Proselytizing is not an inherent component of Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Islam do not derive their rationales for proselytizing from the fact that they are descended from Abraham.

Judaism does not proselytize because Jews believe that belief and faith must be genuine and a part of you. If you come to us and profess a desire to become Jewish, and go through our processes of conversion, we feel that you have a genuine and consuming passion and intent for Judaism. If we go out and make you, or try to make you become Jewish, there is a good chance that you are Jewish in name to try to stop us from bothering you, or worse, or that you have come into Judaism for the wrong reasons.

Also, Jews have a very, very long history of being persecuted for being open about our religion, and even in spite of not being open about our religion. It is in our social consciousness that if somebody catches you as a Jew, you will die, or something similar. We would not want to open up to people we don't know, and we would not like the same fate appear to happen to somebody else at our hands.

 

[Gunny]

I have one more for your list-
Why does it say in the Talmud that Jesus was an idolater and conceived while his mother was menstruating and that she was a whore?

I've never heard of it saying any such thing. In fact, Jesus wouldn't be mentioned in the Talmud, since the Talmud preceded him; the mishnah by 200 years; the gemarra by 500 years.

Thanks for playing.

As to the origin of the Talmud, the Rabbis regard Moses as its first author, is that correct? So yes it would precede Jesus 's time. But I have read a little regarding the Talmud and what it says about Christians anyway.
deleted
Perhaps not all Jews adhere to this, I don't know , but regardless, this revered Jewish holy man added or adapted to the Talmud as he saw it to be necessary at the time. The Mischnah is the foundation and the principal part of the whole Talmud. This book was accepted by the Jews everywhere and was recognized as their authentic code of law.
I asked my question about what is said in the Talmud, regarding Christians in particular, because it is quite racist and derogatory and from what I read, should be quite revolting to a Christian reader.
Further more, regarding any one who calls themselves a Christian, and has the same need as those of the Jewish faith have, that is to rebuild the temple in order to conduct animal sacrifices for the atonement of sins, is seriously flawed in their beliefs IMHO.

Christians according to their beliefs, have should have no need or desire to advance the re-building of the 3rd temple the Jews desire. If they do they would be rebuking the sacrifice of Jesus, "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world," -It is only upon the true altar of God, through Christ, by his own blood, that God is satisfied with the final propitiation for sins. As scripture states, "...there remains no further sacrifice for sins."(Hebrews 10:26).
But as far as what I asked regarding the horrible blasphemies in that book-

The Talmud teaches that Jesus Christ was illegitimate and was conceived during menstruation; that he had the soul of Esau; that he was a fool, a conjurer, a seducer; that he was crucified, buried in hell and set up as an idol ever since by his followers.

1. ILLEGITIMATE AND CONCEIVED DURING MENSTRUATION

deleted

I'd suggest you get a link for that...

And no, I've never heard that Moses is considered the first author of the torah. moreover you're talking about something that allegededly existed in the year 200 CE.

you do know there are a lot of bogus sites out there, right?

I mean, you can link to the protocols of the learned elders of zion, too... wouldn't make the contents any less garbage. Without a link, though, I'm figuring it didn't come from anyplace of value anyway.

I can see where Jews would not like to admit the existence of these
books or beliefs as many Christians who are sympathetic to the Zionist cause declare their alliance with them and thinking ones would therefore look at them in a bad light and perhaps turn away from the deception and falsehoods that their Jewish friends maybe adhere to.
Have you heard of the Toledot Jeshu (Book of the Life of Jesus)? It is said however, you may not find anyone in your bookstore because when the Jewish teachings regarding Jesus Christ were discovered in the early 1600's, a cover-up ensued. In 1631, a Jewish synod in Poland ordered the offending passages to be expunged, and that these teaching were to be passed on orally to young Jews by Rabbis and parents. This is documented by P.L.B Drach:

deleted
The Toledot is a pernicious book mainly for the Jewish people: Jewish mothers know the false fiction-story and pass it to their children via voice, by word, and those little children are programmed against Christianity since their very early childhood, creating in them all kind of poisonous resentment and prejudice against Christians... the Rabbis also pass the false story by word.
The Toledot is a kind of farce, a mocking distortion of the gospel story, and goes back to the second and third centuries, extant in about a dozen different versions.
The most prominent edition was published by Johann C. Wagenseil in 1681, with the title Tela Ignea Satanae. Altdorf: Noricum, 1681.
Other titles of the book are: Deeds of Jesus (Ma'ase Yeshu), Deeds of the One Who Was Hanged (Ma'ased Talui), Deeds of the One and His Son (Ma'asth do'otho v'eth b'no), Genealogy of Jesus... or Tolodoth Ieschu or Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua....
deleted
I'm just saying that the Talmud and Cabala teachings of the Toledot Yeshu are representative of teachings regarding Christ which may be shocking to Christians. This is why I suggested the OP add this question to his list in hopes of getting a Jewish persons view on these writings and books, and perhaps a general opinion on how modern Judaism views Jesus and Christians overall. Bear in mind I am not here to bash or ridicule, it wouldn't matter to me if Jews in general are taught to view Jesus or Christians in this negative light,
rather I have a problem with so called Christians themselves who would ally themselves with these teachings. Your thoughts?

If you are going to post copyrighted material, you must do so within the rules of this board, in compliance with the law. The rules are the very first forum. Feel free to read them since you agreed to abide by them when you registered.

Thanks

Gunny

 

[Diuretic]

...............
Proselytizing is not an inherent component of Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Islam do not derive their rationales for proselytizing from the fact that they are descended from Abraham.

Judaism does not proselytize because Jews believe that belief and faith must be genuine and a part of you. If you come to us and profess a desire to become Jewish, and go through our processes of conversion, we feel that you have a genuine and consuming passion and intent for Judaism. If we go out and make you, or try to make you become Jewish, there is a good chance that you are Jewish in name to try to stop us from bothering you, or worse, or that you have come into Judaism for the wrong reasons.

Also, Jews have a very, very long history of being persecuted for being open about our religion, and even in spite of not being open about our religion. It is in our social consciousness that if somebody catches you as a Jew, you will die, or something similar. We would not want to open up to people we don't know, and we would not like the same fate appear to happen to somebody else at our hands.

Thanks to you and jillian I have had my question answered, at least as far as Judaism and proselytising is concerned. I have another question but it's not related to Judaism and is best asked in another thread to avoid drift.

 

[jillian]

Isaac was the son of Sarah, the love of his life, and he tried ever so hard to have a baby with her. It is also said that God helped the process along, and this was apparent due to the fact that Sarah was beyond ovulating age by the time she conceived Isaac. Also, the news of her pregnancy caused her to laugh with joy, and this is where the name "Isaac" comes from, meaning "He will laugh."

However, as was the custom at the time, and through a completely voluntary agreement of love, as I see it, Abraham begot sons with Sarah's handmaids and other servant-women in order to have some hereditary legacy. As it happened, Ishmael was the first son Abraham had, and he was begotten from a handmaid called Hagar. Being the eldest was supposed to grant Ishmael certain rights according to the custom of the time and region, and the role of eldest child is even given special social status within many families today, even when there are not obvious or physical symbols of such status.

Unfortunately for a lot of people, Abraham gave his favor to Isaac, and Arbaham casts Ishmael out to the desert to die. God keeps Ishmael alive long enough to create his own legacy up until his great great great great....grandson Muhammed the Prophet comes into the picture.

Actually, Abraham asked Hagar to leave at Sarah's behest after Sarah after she saw Ishamael "making sport" of Isaac. Abraham didn't want to make his son leave, but G-d told him to do whatever Sarah had told him. (Genesis 21:9, et seq).