The Treaty of Tripoli - The End of the Argument

BlackAsCoal

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Oct 13, 2008
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Blackascoal

There is a little known document that is not generally taught in American history that essentially ends the argument of whether the Founders intended America to be a Christian nation. It’s called the Treaty of Tripoli, specifically, Article 11.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -- Signed, George Washington, President of the United States, 4 November 1796.

“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

When the Treaty came before the new government of John Adams to be ratified, it was read ALOUD in it’s entirety on the floor of the Senate, and copies were distributed to every senator. It passed UNANIMOUSLY on June 7, 1797.(1) The caps are meant for those who may believe or may want to believe this an obscure document passed in the dead of night by a few equally obscure politicians. That would be a false reading of the facts. A true reading of the facts demonstrates that Washington, Adams, and the Senate went out of their way to record this and affirmation of their sentiment on the separation of church and state.

Upon passage, Adams signed the treaty and proclaimed it to the nation on 10 June 1797 and he wrote the following:

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."
reduced. 4-5 paragraphs then read the rest at the link
http://www.politicalgroove.com/showthread.php?20666-The-Treaty-of-Tripoli-The-End-Of-the-Argument

1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
 
Some will believe anything to retain failed ideas

I agree.

They are free to believe anything they want .. they just aren't free to call it fact.

Yes I would agree.

It seems there is a faction of Americans who refuse cold hard facts that would destroy the validity of their opinions.

They even after being made aware of these facts just deny the facts off hand and choose to continue believing their failed ideas.

Why would people choose to lie to themselves and others?

I just dont understand that mindset and how they sleep at night after insulting anyone and everyone who doesnt share in their lie propped up failed ideas.

I wonder what they feel they are gaining with such silly self deception?
 
Some will believe anything to retain failed ideas

I agree.

They are free to believe anything they want .. they just aren't free to call it fact.

Yes I would agree.

It seems there is a faction of Americans who refuse cold hard facts that would destroy the validity of their opinions.

They even after being made aware of these facts just deny the facts off hand and choose to continue believing their failed ideas.

Why would people choose to lie to themselves and others?

I just dont understand that mindset and how they sleep at night after insulting anyone and everyone who doesnt share in their lie propped up failed ideas.

I wonder what they feel they are gaining with such silly self deception?

an honest conversation with yourself should give you your answer.
 
Some will believe anything to retain failed ideas

I agree.

They are free to believe anything they want .. they just aren't free to call it fact.

Yes I would agree.

It seems there is a faction of Americans who refuse cold hard facts that would destroy the validity of their opinions.

They even after being made aware of these facts just deny the facts off hand and choose to continue believing their failed ideas.

Why would people choose to lie to themselves and others?

I just dont understand that mindset and how they sleep at night after insulting anyone and everyone who doesnt share in their lie propped up failed ideas.

I wonder what they feel they are gaining with such silly self deception?

It comes almost natural .. inherent in their beliefs.

They don't even notice their own failure of intelligence.
 
Reality

By Truthmatters and BAC


outta be a best seller

The reason I call it the end of the argument is because all people like you have against the truth of it is attacks on those of us who know history.

This is your third post .. not a single word of real debate, not a single word to challenge the truth of it.

thanks for your cooperation.
 
We're a secular nation. Great. It's a shame that we can't even get past that one single basic argument, that's really NOT that damned complicated. Many of the founding fathers were secularist heathens (haha), people who try to paint them as good christian gospel-loving holy bible readers simply don't know history.
 
“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” 1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but then leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment. I think Christians call this "The Sin of Omission".

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.
 
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“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” 1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment.

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.

This is not neccesarily a thread fail at all. You can argue that the original document, while not binding, shows the original intent of the majority of our founding fathers, or atleast where their mindset was at the birth of our nation. Simply because this was left out of the document when it was renegotiated doesn't mean that they intended for this nation to change within 8 years and BECOME a Christian nation. Otherwise I'm sure they would have added their own "this is a Christian nation clause". Either way, we are still clearly a secular nation if we follow the constitution alone.
 
“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” 1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but then leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment. I think Christians call this "The Sin of Omission".

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.

Oh, that's very different....Never mind.

View attachment 12665
 
“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” 1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but then leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment. I think Christians call this "The Sin of Omission".

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.

:lol:

I encourage everyone to do their own research .. its why I posted it.

Let's take this one step at a time ..

Let's start here .. The treaty was read ALOUD, not in arabic, but in english. It passed unanimously.

Is that true or not?

If that is true, and unless you are claiming that no one in the US government knew how to speak english, then the language at the time of its passing was relevent and all who passed this treaty .. the entire US government .. understood it to be in accordance with their desires and the Constitution.

HERE is where you and the Apologetics Ministry that wrote your link FAIL

"The article as it stands merely says that the government of America is not founded on the Christian religion. This does not mean that the American social/political network was not founded with Christian principles of mind, or that the peoples of America were not Christian to some degree; it merely addresses the government of America."

The GOVERNMENT is all I am talking about. Not society, not what many people believed.

Thus, YOUR LINK confirms exactly what I and the Founders have said.

The end of the argument .. so you and your link chose to start a different argument.

Your turn

I have much more .. but it's your turn
 
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“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” 1. US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment.

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.

This is not neccesarily a thread fail at all. You can argue that the original document, while not binding, shows the original intent of the majority of our founding fathers, or atleast where their mindset was at the birth of our nation. Simply because this was left out of the document when it was renegotiated doesn't mean that they intended for this nation to change within 8 years and BECOME a Christian nation. Otherwise I'm sure they would have added their own "this is a Christian nation clause". Either way, we are still clearly a secular nation if we follow the constitution alone.
The original document WAS binding because they signed it. They renegotiated it later. You obviously didn't read any of the links provided.

And the "original intent" of our founders was to keep slavery, you think we should go back to that? Shit, even you doper Liberals use that argument!

Besides Freedom Of Religion is much different than Freedom From Religion. There is no Freedom From Religion as you religion haters argue.

The idea was that governments shouldn't create a religion and force you to worship it.

America isn't a Christian Nation. It isn't a Muslim Nation. It isn't a Mormon Nation. It isn't a Church of Scientology Nation either.

More importantly, it isn't an Anti-Religion Nation was well. Don't forget that.
 
Thanks for posting this. I honestly had never seen or heard of it before. But in my research of it I can see you left out one inconvenient fact:

The treaty was renegotiated 8 years later and those famous words were left out.

Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11. Christian nation phrase

See, this article you wrote and posted is like someone saying that "according to US Law Blacks are only to be considered 3/5 of a person" but leaving out the Emancipation proclamation and the 13th Amendment.

THREAD FAIL!

I encourage everyone to do their own research and just ignore the OP's article.

This is not neccesarily a thread fail at all. You can argue that the original document, while not binding, shows the original intent of the majority of our founding fathers, or atleast where their mindset was at the birth of our nation. Simply because this was left out of the document when it was renegotiated doesn't mean that they intended for this nation to change within 8 years and BECOME a Christian nation. Otherwise I'm sure they would have added their own "this is a Christian nation clause". Either way, we are still clearly a secular nation if we follow the constitution alone.
The original document WAS binding because they signed it. They renegotiated it later. You obviously didn't read any of the links provided.

And the "original intent" of our founders was to keep slavery, you think we should go back to that? Shit, even you doper Liberals use that argument!

Besides Freedom Of Religion is much different than Freedom From Religion. There is no Freedom From Religion as you religion haters argue.

The idea was that governments shouldn't create a religion and force you to worship it.

America isn't a Christian Nation. It isn't a Muslim Nation. It isn't a Mormon Nation. It isn't a Church of Scientology Nation either.

More importantly, it isn't an Anti-Religion Nation was well. Don't forget that.

Irrespective of other arguments you're trying to make, no one is claiming anything but the truth of the Founders intent.

YOUR link affirms that .. and the "idea" was that this nation is not, IN ANY SENSE, founded as a christian nation.

It appears this thread is not the failure you wish it to be.
 
We're a secular nation. Great. It's a shame that we can't even get past that one single basic argument, that's really NOT that damned complicated. Many of the founding fathers were secularist heathens (haha), people who try to paint them as good christian gospel-loving holy bible readers simply don't know history.

They do that..because the un-sophisticated rubes constantly point to "campaign" speeches of the founders where they evoked "a belief" in religion.

But they suddenly become more sophisticated when other leaders from other time periods do very much the same thing. They will engage in all sorts of gymnastics to prove that <INSERT DISTASTEFUL LEADER HERE> were not part of their particular "religious club".
 

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