The Tragedy of Palestine

[P F Tinmore]

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine. The rest were foreigners. The vast majority of Israel's original citizens were recent immigrants.

Cutting that long arab agitprop story short let us recall Winnie, who, of course, knew his arabs and of the arab mass-migration to the historic palestine: "Far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Settling-squatting immigrant arabs, calling others foreigners. Hularious.

What does that have to do with Israel being a foreign entity in Palestine?

 

[Marc39]

The right to self-determination is the right that inhabitants, i.e. permanent residents, have to govern themselves. This right does not extend to foreigners.

Arabs have more "self determination" than any other people: 400 million Arabs in 30 countries.

Now, even you know, dummy.

 

[docmauser1]

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine. The rest were foreigners. The vast majority of Israel's original citizens were recent immigrants.

Cutting that long arab agitprop story short let us recall Winnie, who, of course, knew his arabs and of the arab mass-migration to the historic palestine: "Far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Settling-squatting immigrant arabs, calling others foreigners. Hularious.

What does that have to do with Israel being a foreign entity in Palestine?

Nothing whatsoever - it has a lot to do with arabs, being a squatting-settling foreign immigrant bunch, which likes to call others foreigners, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Cutting that long arab agitprop story short let us recall Winnie, who, of course, knew his arabs and of the arab mass-migration to the historic palestine: "Far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Settling-squatting immigrant arabs, calling others foreigners. Hularious.

What does that have to do with Israel being a foreign entity in Palestine?

Nothing whatsoever - it has a lot to do with arabs, being a squatting-settling foreign immigrant bunch, which likes to call others foreigners, of course.

I wasn't calling anybody anything.

Reviewing the above list, it can be seen that only one person was born in Palestine. Thirteen were born in Russia, twelve born in Poland, three born in Rumania, two born in Germany, one born in Latvia, one born in Lithuania, one born in Austria, one born in Hungary, one born in Denmark and one born in Yemen.

Chapter 8: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

I was merely stating fact.

 

[docmauser1]

What does that have to do with Israel being a foreign entity in Palestine?

Nothing whatsoever - it has a lot to do with arabs, being a squatting-settling foreign immigrant bunch, which likes to call others foreigners, of course.

I wasn't calling anybody anything. Reviewing the above list, it can be seen that only one person was born in Palestine. Thirteen were born in Russia, twelve born in Poland, three born in Rumania, two born in Germany, one born in Latvia, one born in Lithuania, one born in Austria, one born in Hungary, one born in Denmark and one born in Yemen. I was merely stating fact.

Cool. Now those immigrant settling-squatting arabs, calling themselves palestinians®, should go get a life and a job.

 

[Marc39]

What does that have to do with Israel being a foreign entity in Palestine?[/size][/i]

Nothing whatsoever - it has a lot to do with arabs, being a squatting-settling foreign immigrant bunch, which likes to call others foreigners, of course.

I wasn't calling anybody anything.

Reviewing the above list, it can be seen that only one person was born in Palestine. Thirteen were born in Russia, twelve born in Poland, three born in Rumania, two born in Germany, one born in Latvia, one born in Lithuania, one born in Austria, one born in Hungary, one born in Denmark and one born in Yemen.

Chapter 8: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

I was merely stating fact.

Arabs were born in Arabia. Jews were born in "Palestine"

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

During the first period in Islamic history [622 AD] when Islam was an Arab religion and the Caliphate an Arab Kingdom, the term Arab came to be applied to those who spoke Arabic, were full members by descent of an Arab tribe, and who, either in person or through their ancestors, had originated in Arabia.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arabs-History-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0192803107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288187880&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Arabs in History (9780192803108): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


Now, you know, dummy.

 

[u2scram]

FACTS DONT CHANGE

FACT 1 : It is self evident that no one has the right to take someone else’s land.


FACT 2 : That was an accepted practice in the colonial era of the 18th to 19th century. By the mid-20th century, it was not acceptable.

FACT 3 : Israel did not exist before 1948. Palestine did. That simple fact alone tells you were justice lies in this matter!

FACT 4 : “The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).

FACT 5 : There was no substantial Jewish population until after ww2 when Jews were 'imported'. Often wealthy Zionists financed them. Wealthy Zionists who incidentally, decided to remain were they where!

FACT 6 : The Chinese have used similar tactics, massive immigration, to subjugate Tibet, a similar crime against humanity.


FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.

To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.

FACT 8 : Modern Zionism is based upon religious fundamentalism and racism. Anyone who supports these policies must exist in a religious fantasy camp, were seizing the lands of others is a god-given right and anyone who attempts to recover their own land is a terrorist.

Eventually, the Israelis must come to terms with their criminal actions in Palestine.

If they do this, and establish some kind of 'Truth Commission' to address the injustices that the Palestinians have endured, I believe that they will find a new basis for discussion with the Palestinians, and that a single state solution will be a possibility, with some kind of reconciliation with the Palestinians, who have suffered so much at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime since the occupation began. The brutal nature of the Zionist regime is obvious too all who are not either racists or religious fundamentalists.

 

[Marc39]

FACTS DONT CHANGE

FACT 1 : It is self evident that no one has the right to take someone else’s land.

Fact 2: Muzzies took Jews' and Christians' land throughout the Middle East and north Africa and took Buddhists' land in Afghanistan.

Muzzies took the land of the Spaniards, of the Portuguese, of the Italians, etc etc etc.
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fact 3: Palestine Is The Jewish Homeland. Arabia Is the Arabian Homeland.

The League of Nations agreed...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...

Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.

Barack Obama agrees...:

Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.

It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States. The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice

Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


Winston Churchill agreed...:

The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The US Congress agrees...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

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[u2scram]

"Ignorance is the cornerstone of the Arab and Muhammadan. Your fake prophet was a pedophile"

i have no prophet, fake or otherwise. all three abrahamic faiths are silly and childish superstitions.

i would no more support the zionists and their brutal treatment of palestinians than i would the nazis and their brutal treatment of jews, among other!

and your posts contain no facts, merely the prejudices and opinions of others, plus nonsense about moses, who probably never even existed.

""Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.

To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.

FACT 8 : Modern Zionism is based upon religious fundamentalism and racism. Anyone who supports these policies must exist in a religious fantasy camp, were seizing the lands of others is a god-given right and anyone who attempts to recover their own land is a terrorist. ""

 

[Marc39]

FACT 3 : Israel did not exist before 1948.

False. Israel existed twice in antiquity, the First and Second Temples.

The Merneptah Stele indicates Israel existed at least 3200 years ago.

No Arab country existed as a sovereign state prior to World War I.

Palestine did.

False.

Palestine has no connection with Arabs or Muslims. The land was viewed as Syria.
Arabs have never recognized Palestine.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

The word Palestine comes from "Philistine" and originally denoted the coastal region north and south of Gaza [not the land now known as Israel] which was occupied and settled by the Philistine invaders from across the sea [who were Aegean, not Arab or Jewish

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.

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Jews, not Palestinians, are alluded to in the Quran as the rightful owners of the Holy Land. Allah didn't even acknowledge Palestinians.

Quran 5:20-21...

Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.

 

[u2scram]

""Muzzies took Jews' and Christians' land throughout the Middle East and north Africa and took Buddhists' land in Afghanistan. Israel existed twice in antiquity, the First and Second Temples.""

FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.

To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.

""Palestine has no connection with Arabs or Muslims.""

FACT 4 : “The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).

""Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you,""

superstitious nonsense. you dont have a single fact in your post, merely opinion.

 

[Marc39]

""Muzzies took Jews' and Christians' land throughout the Middle East and north Africa and took Buddhists' land in Afghanistan. Israel existed twice in antiquity, the First and Second Temples.""

FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.

Jews have lived continuously in Palestine for nearly 4000 years to this day.

Arabs are interlopers from Arabia.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

During the first period in Islamic history [622 AD] when Islam was an Arab religion and the Caliphate an Arab Kingdom, the term Arab came to be applied to those who spoke Arabic, were full members by descent of an Arab tribe, and who, either in person or through their ancestors, had originated in Arabia.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arabs-History-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0192803107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288187880&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Arabs in History (9780192803108): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

""
“The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).

Arabs owned no land. Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Turks, not the Arabs.

Open a history book.

 

[Marc39]

And the truth is that Israel, just like every other nation, has the right to exist that stems from power, not from morality.

Winston Churchill was much smarter than you....
Winston Churchill...

We owe to the Jews a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all wisdom and learning put together.

Some people like Jews and some do not, but no thoughtful `person' can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world

The coming into being of a Jewish state in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years" "This is an event in world history

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Alexis de Toqueville...

I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

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[docmauser1]

FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not. To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.

Indeed, arab desire to return to, for example, Al Andalus is irrational, and that palestinian® claim of being "canaanites" is the result of their jurassic insanity.

 

[Marc39]

Quote: Originally Posted by u2scram
FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not. To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.

Sooooo, Muslims who conquered the Middle East and north Africa, and Afghanistan, 1400 years ago should be forced to surrender the entire region, right?

You wanna be the one to tell them?

 

[P F Tinmore]

""
“The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).

Arabs owned no land. Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Turks, not the Arabs.

Open a history book.

The continuity of the Palestinian roots in the land in fact goes back to antiquity. Absorbing or outlasting various conquerors, Palestinians tenaciously tended their ancestral farmlands, whether as freeholders or as tenants and mortgagees, and by the end of World War 11, mostly as unfettered freeholders again. In his study of the history of landholdings in Palestine, Abraham Granott, formerly Managing Director of the Jewish National Fund, admits:

"When the kingdom of Byzantium was subjugated by the Arabs, practically the whole of the land belonged to the big proprietors, the Emperor, the municipal authorities, and religious bodies, as churches and so on, while the soil was cultivated by the former owners who had remained on their plots as tenants after the land had passed into the hands of large owners."(1)

Thus the Palestinian farmers expelled by the Zionists in 1948 were the lineal descendants of the most ancient owners of the land. The Palestinian Arabs are the indigenous population of Palestine, the descendants of the Philistines and of all the Semitic peoples who have lived in Palestine since the time of the Canaanites. Successive waves of newcomers, such as Philistines from Crete, Semites from Iraq, Romans, Greeks and Arabs came and intermarried with the native stock.

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

 

[Marc39]

""
“The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).

Arabs owned no land. Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Turks, not the Arabs.

Open a history book.

The continuity of the Palestinian roots in the land in fact goes back to antiquity.

Except, neither Palestine nor Palestinians existed in the Arab and Muslim worlds, neither in antiquity or now.
Are you hallucinating, again?

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria. In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect.

After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district [of Syria and Lebanon ], and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense. In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.

The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine

The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

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Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

Myths of the Middle East


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...

Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]

 

[Bonano]

If the arabs could even get their shit together, they have more money than god, so could easily field an army that could wipe out israel. I'm not even taking sides here, just pointing out that if israel still exists, arabs have only themselves to blame for being such douchebags who can't get it together.

 

[Jroc]

If the arabs could even get their shit together, they have more money than god, so could easily field an army that could wipe out israel. I'm not even taking sides here, just pointing out that if israel still exists, arabs have only themselves to blame for being such douchebags who can't get it together.

Yeah ok... all they have is oil, And all that money is being siphoned to the pockets of their tyrannical dictators. They are muslims countries and most are governed under sharia law. When we find a replacement for their oil, They’ll be nothing but a bunch of deserts and camel shit.