The Ten Commandments and homosexuality

[mattskramer]

Okay. Here is my reply to those who apply the bible, one way or another, to the gay issue:
Assuming that god(s) exist, when all is said and done, he (or she, or it, or they) will ultimately be my judges – not you. Thank you, anyway, for your concern over my future welfare.

 

[Rico]

Okay. Here is my reply to those who apply the bible, one way or another, to the gay issue:
Assuming that god(s) exist, when all is said and done, he (or she, or it, or they) will ultimately be my judges – not you. Thank you, anyway, for your concern over my future welfare.

Now let me get this argument straight(much apologies for the pun) animals are gay? Listen I grew up on a ranch and witnessed animal behavior up close. We had a couple of cows that would, when randy and in need of a bull, mount each other.Those two were the only examples out of over a thousand over 25 years. Never saw a bull do that to another bull. Never saw a horse exhibit any "gay" activity. I think the examples of animal "gay' behavior is on par scientifically to AlGore's "scientists" that prove human initiated global warming. That being the gays seek out those that would "prove" homosexual activity in certain animal groups. I personally say BULLSHIT!!
If you're homosexual chances are you were seduced, coerced, into the "position" (having more pun fun than I can stand).
So to those "pitching" (I can't help it) the idea that homosexuality is "natural" I say it's a convenient lie made to serve their argument.

 

[dmp]

Okay. Here is my reply to those who apply the bible, one way or another, to the gay issue:
Assuming that god(s) exist, when all is said and done, he (or she, or it, or they) will ultimately be my judges – not you. Thank you, anyway, for your concern over my future welfare.

Just be sure he won't say "Uh...doofus...I TOLD You to Not be gay in the BIBLE I left for you!"

 

[mattskramer]

Now let me get this argument straight(much apologies for the pun) animals are gay? Listen I grew up on a ranch and witnessed animal behavior up close. We had a couple of cows that would, when randy and in need of a bull, mount each other.Those two were the only examples out of over a thousand over 25 years. Never saw a bull do that to another bull. Never saw a horse exhibit any "gay" activity. I think the examples of animal "gay' behavior is on par scientifically to AlGore's "scientists" that prove human initiated global warming. That being the gays seek out those that would "prove" homosexual activity in certain animal groups. I personally say BULLSHIT!!
If you're homosexual chances are you were seduced, coerced, into the "position" (having more pun fun than I can stand).
So to those "pitching" (I can't help it) the idea that homosexuality is "natural" I say it's a convenient lie made to serve their argument.

I already went over the old “natural law” argument. What is natural is not necessarily good and what is not natural is not necessarily bad. Some animals do some unusual things. The fact that you see or don’t see other animals engage in homosexual activity is irrelevant.

 

[mattskramer]

Just be sure he won't say "Uh...doofus...I TOLD You to Not be gay in the BIBLE I left for you!"

I’d probably ask him why he didn’t make it more explicit. If he despised homosexuality so greatly, why didn’t Jesus speak against it? So much has been written about other sins. There are also many rules and recommendations and instructions in the Bible. I doubt that even the strongest “God Hates Fags” crusader does not take all passages seriously and apply them equally to his life.

Aside from that, there are “fundamentalists” who believe in a literal interpretation. For them, if they want to get nit-picky, I can find instances where the Bible does not seem to measure up against modern scientific knowledge. I can even find specific sentences that seem to contradict each other. Liberal moderates have found ways to take passages into different contexts, taking the circumstances and ignorance of the writers into consideration. Some people have even found ways to translate & interpret the Bible so that God would not consider homosexual behavior as a sin.

In conclusion, I’m not interested in going over an analysis of what the Bible means and what it doesn’t mean. It would take months of careful and complicated line-by-line discussion. It is enough that I know that people will follow the Bible in ways suitable to them and their own conscience. They will be accountable for the choices that they make just as I will be answerable to God if God exists. Again, thanks for your consideration.

 

[GotZoom]

I suppose there are two options.

1. Validate your lifestyle by using the word of God.

2. Validate your lifestyle by using the sexual activity of animals.

No brainer.

 

[mattskramer]

I suppose there are two options.

1. Validate your lifestyle by using the word of God.

2. Validate your lifestyle by using the sexual activity of animals.

No brainer.

Oh. I think that you need to be more specific. Say, “Validate your lifestyle by using my favorite translation and interpretation of the word of God”. There are many more ways to “validate your lifestyle”. One of my favorites is to validate it via the “libertarian ethic”. In general, people should be free to do as they please as long as they don’t interfere with the freedoms of others. Oh. Who said that it must be validated anyway?

 

[GotZoom]

Oh. I think that you need to be more specific. Say, “Validate your lifestyle by using my favorite translation and interpretation of the word of God”. There are many more ways to “validate your lifestyle”. One of my favorites is to validate it via the “libertarian ethic”. In general, people should be free to do as they please as long as they don’t interfere with the freedoms of others. Oh. Who said that it must be validated anyway?

Looks like you just tried to.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Ummmm.....

So...umm....no Penis Fencing?

En garde!

 

[MissileMan]

En garde!

Use the Schwartz!

 

[acludem]

So let me get this straight (no pun intended)...Conservative Christians are going to use evolution to argue against gay rights? Wow. Wow. Wow.

Again, no one really answered my question. If homosexual behavior is not natural and is a choice, why do many animal species engage in homosexual sex? Do you claim that animals make behavioral choices? Do animals have morals? If so, shouldn't you be out preaching to the Giraffes to stop the sin of homosexuality?

There was also a story of two male penguins at a zoo in New York City that became nest mates, adopted an egg and raised the hatchling. They naturally gravitated toward each other. No one at the zoo told them to, and believe it or not, none of the other penguins told them not too.

acludem

 

[CockySOB]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

And Christ said, "Go forth and sin no more." Yet if one chooses to knowingly practice homosexulaity, they are knowingly committing sin as surely as if they were committing adultery or theft. What Sullivan claims as "bearing false witness against himself" could also be viewed as insisting that his view of homosexuality supercedes God's Word (via OT and NT scriptures) which proscribes homosexuality as sinful.

Nutshell version, God says homosexual relations are sinful. Sullivan claims they can't be "sinful" because [insert any of a dozen reasons put forth by the homosexual lobby]. Sullivan then says that he cannot bear false witness against himself without violating God's law. This requires that Sullivan thinks himself better than God, in which case why does he care about "bearing false witness?"

Summary: Sullivan thinks he is better than God and can pick and choose which laws to abide, while still pretending to the title of "Christian."

 

[CockySOB]

Okay. Here is my reply to those who apply the bible, one way or another, to the gay issue:
Assuming that god(s) exist, when all is said and done, he (or she, or it, or they) will ultimately be my judges – not you. Thank you, anyway, for your concern over my future welfare.

And realistically Matt, that's as it should be. You believe what you want, and everyone else will do likewise - free will and all. But don't be surprised or upset if the majority of Americans don't agree or endorse the lifestyle, even if they tolerate it in society. And for those who refuse to tolerate homosexual lifestyles in society, the majority may grumble and argue about it, but its a small minority who take their feelings out on homosexuals in a violent manner. Of course I expect the homsexual lobby to argue about "tolerance" and "acceptance."

 

[CockySOB]

I doubt that even the strongest “God Hates Fags” crusader does not take all passages seriously and apply them equally to his life.

The "God hates Fags" crew is in the same category as the militant pro-homosexual activists. Both groups are made up of people who have closed themselves off from any discourse - all they are interested in is rhetoric.

 

[Gunny]

The "God hates Fags" crew is in the same category as the militant pro-homosexual activists. Both groups are made up of people who have closed themselves off from any discourse - all they are interested in is rhetoric.

You just haven't been around long enough, Cocky. In the monds fo these two, you can be only one or the other. If you don't completely embrace the abnormal as normal, you're a gay-bashing homophobe. Otherwise, how could they use the usual "fear" and "hate" lefty buzzwords in dishonest attempts to shame?

 

[CockySOB]

You just haven't been around long enough, Cocky. In the monds fo these two, you can be only one or the other. If you don't completely embrace the abnormal as normal, you're a gay-bashing homophobe. Otherwise, how could they use the usual "fear" and "hate" lefty buzzwords in dishonest attempts to shame?

That was kinda my point, Gunny. I know the minds of both groups and have actually talked with people from both of these extremes face-to-face. They're both cut from he same cloth and hell-bent to bend others to their wills.

 

[Gunny]

That was kinda my point, Gunny. I know the minds of both groups and have actually talked with people from both of these extremes face-to-face. They're both cut from he same cloth and hell-bent to bend others to their wills.

My very first message board debate was about a 15-page draw with Spyder, of all people (can I choose them, or what?) on this very topic. He actually made a much better argument than people who want to try the "gay is natural/normal" because animals do it routine.

It must be too early in the morning. I just checked out my spelling in my last post.

 

[Rico]

I already went over the old “natural law” argument. What is natural is not necessarily good and what is not natural is not necessarily bad. Some animals do some unusual things. The fact that you see or don’t see other animals engage in homosexual activity is irrelevant.

Heheheeeeeeee You're killing me. Not only did I grow up close to nature I continue that relationship. Hiking, fishing, camping, all have exposed me to millions of opportunites to witness "gay" animal behavior. Yet somehow I missed it. But my personal experience is "irrelevant". What, in actuality, is irrelevant is the attempt to characterize homosexuality as normal or natural. It is what it is, an aberation of natural law.

 

[dmp]

I’d probably ask him why he didn’t make it more explicit. If he despised homosexuality so greatly, why didn’t Jesus speak against it? So much has been written about other sins. There are also many rules and recommendations and instructions in the Bible.

Brother - the sin of homosexuality is VERY CLEAR. You don't want to know about that sin. Id est, sin isn't that much of a worry in your life. If you TRULY are concerned about how God views attitudes of our hearts, you'll read the bible yourself and pray for his guidance.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The Bible has a very clear position on homosexuality, i.e., it's a sin.

Being gay isn't the problem, the problem is acting on those impulses.

The Bible also has a very clear position on adultery...It's a sin.

So why are notorious serial adulterers like Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, Bill O'Reilly, Gary Bauer, Jimmy Swaggart, et al leading the crusade to protect marriage?

Being an adulterer isn;t the problem? They seem to have no qualms about acting on those impulses.