The Ten Commandments and homosexuality

[acludem]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

 

[GotZoom]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

If all I have to do is worry about the 10 Commandments...game on...oh baby...

 

[KarlMarx]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

The Bible has a very clear position on homosexuality, i.e., it's a sin.

Being gay isn't the problem, the problem is acting on those impulses.

 

[dmp]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

Right - but God instructs us not to 'DO' Gay. Gay is a behaviour-based lifestyle choice. Do we really have to go thru all this again?


Joe Sartell, a gay-rights activist says "The problem with the "no choice" position on homosexuality is that in order to be effective it requires us to forget about the important distinction between desire and behavior. The position implies that a desire one can't help feeling is a desire one is entitled to satisfy: thus because homosexuals can't help feeling same-sex attractions, they should therefore be allowed to act on those attractions. However, the logic of this argument cannot hold up to much scrutiny. While we may have no choice about our feelings and desires, we routinely and continually do exercise control over our actions.[1]"


God calls sin how we respond to our urges. A murderer who never kills isn't a murderer. A personal who thinks they are sexually aroused by the same gender isn't 'homosexual' unless they act on those mis-guided, treatable urges.


[1]

 

[acludem]

But if Sullivan truly believes that God created him as a homosexual designed and meant to love other men, how can he abide by the "false witness" commandment and deny his true self?

Also, not all killers are muderers. Murder is a crime, killing someone isn't necessarily so (i.e. self defense, war, etc.). You can't be a murderer without actually killing someone in a criminal fashion. There are many celibate hetero and homosexuals. That argument holds no water. Homosexuality is not a "behavior" you are either gay or not gay. As a straight person, when you are dating a girl but not sleeping with her, does that make you not "straight"? By your logic, "straight" is a behavior-based lifestyle choice? Why should straight people be allowed to marry? It's a choice.

acludem

 

[Nienna]

I was watching Larry King Live last night and they had a discussion on this very topic, the guests were several members of the clergy from various denominations and the columnist Andrew Sullivan who is a Catholic and also a gay man. Sullivan made what I consider to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent arguments I've ever heard on this issue. He said "There is no commandment that says 'Thou Shalt Not Be Gay", there is a commandment that says "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness'. For me to deny who I am would be bearing false witness against myself."

Any thoughts?

People have different elements of "self." Some are good, some are bad. I have a decent brain, and try to be compassionate to others. I also care a little (okay A LOT) too much what others think of me. This is called being vain. That's bad.

I could bear false witness against myself, and tell myself this fault is really a strength, but what good would that do?

I'm glad Sullivan has identified one of his faults. But if he was truly trying not to "bear false witness against himself," he would stop telling himself that this fault, this homosexual temptation, is a good thing.

 

[GotZoom]

But if Sullivan truly believes that God created him as a homosexual designed and meant to love other men, how can he abide by the "false witness" commandment and deny his true self?



acludem

Substitude the word "homosexual" and "men" with any of the following words:

Pedophile - Children
Woman - Kangaroos
Man - German Shephards

and finish the sentence.

Would your theory still stand?

 

[Nienna]

But if Sullivan truly believes that God created him as a homosexual designed and meant to love other men, how can he abide by the "false witness" commandment and deny his true self?

God creates people with different strengths and weaknesses: 1) So we can learn about Him through others, and 2) So we can help others who are weak in certain areas and BE HELPED in areas in which we are weak.

God does not design men to desire sex with other men; he designed sex to be between man and woman. See, one is an "innie" and the other is an "outie." That's the design. But because all people have sin in their hearts, sexual desire can be twisted and perverted.

 

[acludem]

Really? Then why are there gay animals? Do animals sin? Do animals have souls? Should we be trying to convert gay animals? Read this article:
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php

acludem

 

[GotZoom]

Really? Then why are there gay animals? Do animals sin? Do animals have souls? Should we be trying to convert gay animals? Read this article:
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php

acludem

Thank you. Thank you acludem.

You did it. I have followed countless threads and thousands of posts about homosexuality. I thought I knew the truth. I was against homosexuality. Keep it in the bedroom. I don't want to know about it. It is a sin.

All the standard arguments. But you know what..I have been naive. Blinded by my prejudice.

But you..acludem...you...you have shown me the light.

I have waited and waited for someone to prove to me that I was wrong. Someone to show me the error of my ways.

And it is you. You did it.

Let me show you how you did it.

From your source:

-----

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called "homosexual societies." They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation. If a male sheep chooses to not have gay sex, it becomes a social outcast. Ironically, scientists call such straight-laced males "effeminate."

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in "penis fencing," which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

-----

I mean..who I am to think I know better? I'm just a lowly human. These animals...They know..they know the truth.

Look..If male big horn sheep do it (even anal!!! woot woot!!!); giraffes (orgies!!), bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales..they all do it. I've been a fool. I can't believe what I've been missing!

And those Bonobos...damn...what a party that much be!

I'd stick around to thank you some more and continue singing your praises...but I have got to plan my weekend. I have a lot of catching up to do.

Hmmmmm....a few rounds of Penis Fencing....then a nice genital massage......

 

[Nienna]

People are not mere animals. The legacy of evolution is very sad.

 

[dmp]

some animals eat their young. Jeff Dahmer should have been Celebrated!

:-/

I honestly think the acivities of those animals, as presented in that op/ed, are bullshit.

 

[GotZoom]

some animals eat their young. Jeff Dahmer should have been Celebrated!

:-/

I honestly think the acivities of those animals, as presented in that op/ed, are bullshit.

Ummmm.....

So...umm....no Penis Fencing?

 

[dmp]

Ummmm.....

So...umm....no Penis Fencing?

Tween you and me? You'd win. I'm a lover not a fencer.

 

[GotZoom]

Tween you and me? You'd win. I'm a lover not a fencer.

Damn.....

Guess I'll watch the World Cup then.

 

[dmp]

Damn.....

Guess I'll watch the World Cup then.

I didn't know you were Gay? Weird. I love ya anyway.

 

[GotZoom]

I didn't know you were Gay? Weird. I love ya anyway.

I didn't either. But according to acludem...it's normal for animals so it has to be normal for humans.

Seems that is a common argument for people backing the homosexual lifestyle..how it is normal in nature, animals, etc.

I don't know about him, but I don't want my lifestyle choices to be compared to than of a big horn sheep or a penis-fencing, genital-rubbing Bonbobo.

But if that is his thing....

 

[dmp]

I didn't either. But according to acludem...it's normal for animals so it has to be normal for humans.

Seems that is a common argument for people backing the homosexual lifestyle..how it is normal in nature, animals, etc.

I don't know about him, but I don't want my lifestyle choices to be compared to than of a big horn sheep or a penis-fencing, genital-rubbing Bonbobo.

But if that is his thing....

It's normal in the animal kingdom for individuals to greet one-another by smelling eachother's genitals. We should CELEBRATE diversity by encouraging the practice in humans, too, eh?

 

[GotZoom]

It's normal in the animal kingdom for individuals to greet one-another by smelling eachother's genitals. We should CELEBRATE diversity by encouraging the practice in humans, too, eh?

I didn't know you were Gay? Weird. I love ya anyway.

 

[dmp]

I didn't know you were Gay? Weird. I love ya anyway.

I didn't either - but I got a friend who watches World Cup and Miami Vice - BY CHOICE...so...I must be.